To Former Mormons

[pablope]

Iepuras,

I can only imagine where you are at. I was the only LDS member in my family. I cant imaging knowing all of this, and having people I loved who were being spiritually abused in this way.

Makes me want to SPIT!

Will pray for your family, and all Mormons tonight. What an insidious evil.

Marie, Iepuras…and other former Mormons still with families in the Mormon Church…I feel your pain, just reading your posts. I will offer prayers for you in the adoration chapel today, and light candles for your families…

 

[NeuroTypical]

I haven’t viewed every post in this thread, so forgive me if this grouping of sources has already been posted.

Mormanity: Does Grant Palmer Really Claim to Have Rescued a Mormon General Authority Away from the LDS Faith?

I’ve watched a few videos from Grant Palmer, and don’t quite know what to make of the man. He seems so genuine, so honest, so trustworthy. People who have met him tell of good experiences with a kind and caring man. So then I look at the Sherlock Holmes-ing that’s been done with his claims, and reality just doesn’t add up.

I’d invite all Catholics to view Palmer’s claims in the same critical light that they’d view a likable personable insider making sensational claims about corruption in the senior levels at the Vatican.

 

[KathleenGee]

Agree…this thread still calls for more validation that it is making truthful claims. I tend to think it is, especially considering the history of backpedalling, covering up, the smearing of those who find out and want to point out the truth, and some how, my sense of a strange indifference to those leaving.

Marie, yes, so many are scandalized by sin.

All the more we are to keep our eyes on the Lord and not on man. In false interpretation of Vatican II, the Mass was now more about the congregation making Christ more present than the Word and Eucharist, or the congregation needed to make the Eucharist present, or that Our Lord remains in the Eucharist for about 5 minutes, or what was sin then is not sin now and we don’t need to go to confession much anymore. And of course, the dissension of Humane Vitae where the world is now experiencing the consequences Pope Paul VI forewarned and was so ridiculed. I lived in that time and college kids had pictures of him saying, ‘the pill is a no-no’.

What saves the Church however, is that the Church is indeed that one instituted by Jesus Christ through His apostles and their successors. The Church is a mother, a guide but not end in herself. You get people too involved with Church life, bad things happen, people put priests on pedestals, start to get entrustment issues with priests and religious, and somehow that can also feed into deviant behavior.

Scripture says we are not to put our trust in man but in to God alone.

The pope, bishops, religious and lay, we are all equal members of God’s Church, the People of God. We are all called to the cross and to seek to live His will every day. This we have been given 2000 years ago and it is the same creed as it was then.

 

[TexanKnight]

I haven’t viewed every post in this thread, so forgive me if this grouping of sources has already been posted.

Mormanity: Does Grant Palmer Really Claim to Have Rescued a Mormon General Authority Away from the LDS Faith?

I’ve watched a few videos from Grant Palmer, and don’t quite know what to make of the man. He seems so genuine, so honest, so trustworthy. People who have met him tell of good experiences with a kind and caring man. So then I look at the Sherlock Holmes-ing that’s been done with his claims, and reality just doesn’t add up.

I’d invite all Catholics to view Palmer’s claims in the same critical light that they’d view a likable personable insider making sensational claims about corruption in the senior levels at the Vatican.

The problem I have with this is that it is typical LDS. Someone is honest enough to have callings until they speak out, then they are branded as a liar, the wagons are circles, and there are blogs and articles like what NT gave us.

again, and this is just ONE example… The Mormon Church taught js used the U&T to gaze at the plates and translate them. I was also taught that a a sheet or something was raised like a net and divided the table so the scribe could not see the plates that js was translating from.

Palmer said “no”. he said js looked into a hat and dictated.

Now, the official story matches Grant Palmer’s version. So, I ask NT and any other Mormon…in this circumstance, who told the truth?

Palmer did.

So for the LDS Church to question HIS integrity is insulting.

Bottom Line- the LDS Church is false. The attacks on Palmer are expected, but sick

 

[pablope]

I haven’t viewed every post in this thread, so forgive me if this grouping of sources has already been posted.

Mormanity: Does Grant Palmer Really Claim to Have Rescued a Mormon General Authority Away from the LDS Faith?

I’ve watched a few videos from Grant Palmer, and don’t quite know what to make of the man. He seems so genuine, so honest, so trustworthy. People who have met him tell of good experiences with a kind and caring man. So then I look at the Sherlock Holmes-ing that’s been done with his claims, and reality just doesn’t add up.

I’d invite all Catholics to view Palmer’s claims in the same critical light that they’d view a likable personable insider making sensational claims about corruption in the senior levels at the Vatican.

Hmmmm…In the case of the CC, there would be a committee established to investigate the allegations of corruption, and its report would be divulged, and I do not think an apologetic piece would be written such as what you had posted…

Has this been done in the case of the claims made by Palmer?

 

[TexanKnight]

Grant Palmer

Editor Comment: Grant waited 6 months before releasing this report to the public because he wanted to make sure this is what the GA believed.

In mid-October 2012, a returned LDS Mission President contacted me to arrange a meeting. Several days later, he called again and said that a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy also wished to attend. He said the General Authority would attend on condition that I not name him or repeat any stories that would identify him.

He explained that neither of them, including the GA’s wife, believed the founding claims of the restoration were true. He clarified that they had read my book, An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins, and had concluded that the LDS Church was not true; was not what it claimed to be. The GA often went to the MormonThink.com website for information and there discovered my book. The Mission President said he received my book from the GA.

We have at this writing met three times. We first met on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 and again February 14, 2013 at my house. On March 26, 2013 we convened at the GAs house. Upon entering my home for the first meeting the GA said, “We are here to learn.” I recognized him. He has been a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy for a number of years. He has served in several high profile assignments during this period. The following are the more important statements made by the GA during our first three meetings. We now meet monthly.

He said that each new member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is given one million dollars to take care of any financial obligations they have. This money gift allows them to fully focus on the ministry. He said that the overriding consideration of who is chosen is whether they are “church broke,” meaning, will they do whatever they are told.

He said the senior six apostles make the agenda and do most of the talking. The junior six are told to observe, listen and learn and really only comment if they are asked. He said that it takes about two to three years before the new apostle discovers that the church is not true.

He said it took Dieter F. Uchtdorf a little longer because he was an outsider. He said they privately talk among themselves and know the foundational claims of the restoration are not true, but continue on boldly “because the people need it,” meaning the people need the church.

When the Mission President voiced skepticism and named ___ as one who surely did believe, The GA said: “No, he doesn’t.” The one million dollar gift, plus their totally obedient attitude makes it easy for them to go along when they find out the church is not true. For these reasons and others, he doesn’t expect any apostle to ever expose the truth about the foundational claims.

When I asked the GA how he knew these things, he answered by saying that the Quorum of the Twelve today is more isolated from the Quorums of the Seventies now because there are several of them. When only one Quorum of the Seventy existed, there was more intimacy. During his one on one assignments with an apostle, conversations were more familiar. He said that none of the apostles ever said to him directly that they did not believe; but that it was his opinion based on “his interactions with them.” Also, that none of the Twelve want to discuss “truth issues,” meaning issues regarding the foundational claims of the church.

He said that the apostle’s lives are so completely and entirely enmeshed in every detail of their lives in the church, that many of them would probably die defending the church rather than admit the truth about Joseph Smith and the foundations of the church. The GA stated that my disciplinary action (which would have occurred on the final Sunday of October 2010 had I not resigned), was mandated/ordered/approved by the First Presidency of the Church. I said that if the apostles know the church is not true and yet order a disciplinary hearing for my writing a book that is almost certainly true regarding the foundational claims of the church, then they are corrupt even evil. He replied, “That’s right!”

The GA said the church is like a weakened dam. At first you don’t see cracks on the face; nevertheless, things are happening behind the scenes. Eventually, small cracks appear, and then the dam will “explode.” When it does, he said, the members are going to be “shocked” and will need scholars/historians like me to educate them regarding the Mormon past.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I haven’t viewed every post in this thread, so forgive me if this grouping of sources has already been posted.

Mormanity: Does Grant Palmer Really Claim to Have Rescued a Mormon General Authority Away from the LDS Faith?

I’ve watched a few videos from Grant Palmer, and don’t quite know what to make of the man. He seems so genuine, so honest, so trustworthy. People who have met him tell of good experiences with a kind and caring man. So then I look at the Sherlock Holmes-ing that’s been done with his claims, and reality just doesn’t add up.

I’d invite all Catholics to view Palmer’s claims in the same critical light that they’d view a likable personable insider making sensational claims about corruption in the senior levels at the Vatican.

The sleuthing is making a lot of assumptions.

It seems to me Mormons want to believe what they want to believe and facts don’t really matter. Could be Brooks, Quinn, Palmer…Mormons are just going to keep on believing.

 

[KathleenGee]

I have my own reservation…but I pray that those who know will finally follow their conscience and bring the truth to the light through the intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

I was reading the disciplines of what makes a valid documentary coming from Steven Spielburg’s documentary school in California. It is most painful for one person who knows the truth who will likewise have to suffer.

This film making company considers 10 people as sign that an event has truly happened and that allegations are not hearsay but a verifiable experience and one that must be revealed.

The remaining 9 are still in bondage…and they must see that coming forward a new freedom and sense of purity awaits them. There is nothing like having a confessed and clear conscience. And when we admit our wrong doing people begin in time to restore trust in those persons.

 

[Marie5890]

I haven’t viewed every post in this thread, so forgive me if this grouping of sources has already been posted.

Mormanity: Does Grant Palmer Really Claim to Have Rescued a Mormon General Authority Away from the LDS Faith?

I’ve watched a few videos from Grant Palmer, and don’t quite know what to make of the man. He seems so genuine, so honest, so trustworthy. People who have met him tell of good experiences with a kind and caring man. So then I look at the Sherlock Holmes-ing that’s been done with his claims, and reality just doesn’t add up.

I’d invite all Catholics to view Palmer’s claims in the same critical light that they’d view a likable personable insider making sensational claims about corruption in the senior levels at the Vatican.

I do. And since his area of professional expertise is history and he worked within the LDS CES I have more reason to lean towards his being credible than not.

This is not a disgruntled Mormon. This is an educator whose specialty is history.

I’m not afraid to look at his claims and they have more weight given his background in comparison to the blot you listed. I looked at that and wondered about his credentials.

 

[TexanKnight]

Still, no Mormon who claims Palmer is lying can explain why the church lied for almost 200 years about how the plates were translated

 

[Porknpie]

Rebecca, there is no way to validate these supposed facts.

Janderich, let’s go with your statement. Likewise, there is no way to validate Joseph Smith. No way to validate an apostasy in The Church. No excavating Hill Cumorah. No evidence of any great civilization in the Americas per the Book of Mormon. No temple remains. No human remains. No language.

They are of the most damaging type but he offers no evidence an outsider can use to validate them.

Likewise, Joseph Smith is most damaging to The Church that Christ established.

All we can do is look at him as a person and see what he has written. Is he honest?

Same with Joseph Smith. What kind of person was he? Adultery, a man who sold miracle oil and who claimed to be able to find buried treasure by looking through a rock with a hole in it.

What type of spirit does he posses?

Ask same question of Joseph Smith. And if a spirit ever did appear to him, did he test the Spirit?

PnP

 

[Porknpie]

I have my own reservation…but I pray that those who know will finally follow their conscience and bring the truth to the light through the intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

I was reading the disciplines of what makes a valid documentary coming from Steven Spielburg’s documentary school in California. It is most painful for one person who knows the truth who will likewise have to suffer.

This film making company considers 10 people as sign that an event has truly happened and that allegations are not hearsay but a verifiable experience and one that must be revealed.

The remaining 9 are still in bondage…and they must see that coming forward a new freedom and sense of purity awaits them. There is nothing like having a confessed and clear conscience. And when we admit our wrong doing people begin in time to restore trust in those persons.

Kathleen,

I listened to the first fifteen minutes of the video. I became focused on the word “Truth”. Apostle Packer is alleged to have said that the “truth is not uplifting” (8:50 on video). And by knowing the truth and not proclaiming the truth as they know it, the apostles follow the deceiver of this world. His words contrast greatly with the Catholic faith. Christ himself is Truth and we have the witnesses of the saints, many of whom were martyred testifying to his Truth.

I do agree with the pastor in the video in his saying that the LDS don’t need scholarship. But neither do they need evangelical Christianity. What they need is the Truth found in the Church that Christ established. They need to know Christ established a visible Church and promised to lead it to all Truth until the end of time. They need to know about the seven sacraments that Christ established for our salvation, the means of his giving us his grace.

When and if the dam breaks, they need to know that the fullness of truth exists in Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church.

PnP

 

[Marie5890]

When and if the dam breaks, they need to know that the fullness of truth exists in Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church.

PnP

Problem is, they can see the cracks that also exist in the institutional part of the Catholic Church.

There are reasons most ex-mo’s become agnostic and atheistic and dont become Catholic or join another denominations.

When I was going thru RCIA, I had a boat load of concerns about the Catholic Church, some unfounded, some with a solid foundation of concern.

When many leave Mormonism, they are done, really done, with organized religion. Most end up either doubting completely that Christ was historical person, or if they do, they dont see Him as the Son of God.

They put the Bible thru the same kind of scrutiny that they did the BoM. As Mormons, they come to realize that they have been subject to FPR (faith promoting rumors), and those certainly exist in the Catholic Church as well as others.

Their critical thinking skills go into over drive on steroids.

It’s a true miracle, a gift of God, that people can heal of Mormonism and not turn away from God. Or if they do turn away, the find their way back to being able to have faith again.

Faith takes a beating when one leaves Mormonism

 

[KathleenGee]

What will work if those members of the Quorum and their associates start to tell the truth.

The Catholic Church must be ready to help Mormons to avoid loss of faith.

I am beginning to pray for those Mormons who know the truth, to start coming forward.

 

[Marie5890]

What will work if those members of the Quorum and their associates start to tell the truth.

The Catholic Church must be ready to help Mormons to avoid loss of faith.

I am beginning to pray for those Mormons who know the truth, to start coming forward.

(bold) That too, will take a miracle.

Not sure, as an institution, the Catholic Church understands or, at this point in time, has been graced with the gifts needed to understand Mormons or Mormonism.

What I do see taking place is that there are those of us, like TK, Iperious (sp?) myself, LW, etc, who have lived both, as being concrete instruments in helping those who leave the LDS faith.

Could be only my ego, but I do think that the Spirit has been, and continues to, prepare us to help those of our brothers and sister who are exiting Mormonism or will in the future.

We lived it, breathed it, know it, understand it. We understand “Mormon-speak”. We understand LDS doctrine (we taught it)…

I guess in some ways, not only pray for former Mormons and Mormons, but pray for those of us who can be of the most help. Those of us who understand the language and the concerns. Those of us whose souls were also very dedicated to Mormonism.

Again, maybe only my ego, but I do feel I am better prepared and better understand a Mormon who is undergoing a crisis of faith more so than other Catholics who have never lived it and sacrificed for it.

Sorta like how Marcus Grodi and Scott Hahn are better prepared and understanding for those who are of other denominations “get it”. They know, and have been prepared, to address and help those.

There are those of us who are former Mormons who also have been prepared to be helpful, when the time comes (and now as the moments present themselves) when Mormons are in a crisis of faith.

And I mean that phrase in every sense of each word. CRISIS of FAITH*

 

[RebeccaJ]

There is in the Cathedral of the Madeleine, in Utah, a chapel to Our Lady of Zion. Former LDS understand the need to make Zion in Utah, into the Kingdom of God. We understand the Mormon and Catholic meanings behind Utah, as the land of Zion. This sculpture, by Arvid Fairbanks, is in this chapel:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The artist, Arvid Fairbanks, is a famous artist among Mormons. He is renowned for his monumental “The Tragedy of Winter Quarters” in Nebraska, four monuments on Temple Square in Salt Lake City, the Angel Moroni on four Mormon temples, and the friezes on the Hawaiian temple and its baptismal font.

All that, and he sculpted a Madonna, giving her the features of a Mormon pioneer woman, with hands of a woman who works hard at manual labor. A priest acquired for the Church, the sculpture by Fairbanks, and now Our Lady of Zion is venerated by thousands of Catholics.

So it is, what is essentially LDS, is turned to Christ. This is of course not new, the church has through the ages turned many cultures to Christ. It is the small things like this, that are big in reality. A turning of understanding from erroneous teaching of multiple gods in Mormonism, to the One true God of Christianity. The turning of understanding is the key to bringing Mormons of strong faith, to Christ.

Our Lady of Zion, pray for us.

 

[KathleenGee]

Marie, for sure, former Mormons understand and I appreciate so much the insights and comments…and responses to past Mormon posters who were on when I was here.

So it is important you and others remain here.

 

[KathleenGee]

Rebecca, thanks for info on Our Lady of Zion…may be she can intercede for us that the truth come to light?..my hermit friend told me Mary does alot of good to correct false information or to help those who had attacks done on their good name.

I don’t think the Church in Rome is aware of what is coming out now through this gentleman.

It will have to be associates come forward perhaps, and then be the impetus for the Quorum to tell the truth.

 

[Marie5890]

There is in the Cathedral of the Madeleine, in Utah, a chapel to Our Lady of Zion. Former LDS understand the need to make Zion in Utah, into the Kingdom of God. We understand the Mormon and Catholic meanings behind Utah, as the land of Zion. This sculpture, by Arvid Fairbanks, is in this chapel:

http://www.utcotm.org/images/stories/tour/5.jpg

The artist, Arvid Fairbanks, is a famous artist among Mormons. He is renowned for his monumental “The Tragedy of Winter Quarters” in Nebraska, four monuments on Temple Square in Salt Lake City, the Angel Moroni on four Mormon temples, and the friezes on the Hawaiian temple and its baptismal font.

All that, and he sculpted a Madonna, giving her the features of a Mormon pioneer woman, with hands of a woman who works hard at manual labor. A priest acquired for the Church, the sculpture by Fairbanks, and now Our Lady of Zion is venerated by thousands of Catholics.

So it is, what is essentially LDS, is turned to Christ. This is of course not new, the church has through the ages turned many cultures to Christ. It is the small things like this, that are big in reality. A turning of understanding from erroneous teaching of multiple gods in Mormonism, to the One true God of Christianity. The turning of understanding is the key to bringing Mormons of strong faith, to Christ.

This is perfect. Bridges that connect to very real, but distinct, realities.

I have great faith and pray for the Diocese of UT. So many there, get it…because they have lived it

 

[Marie5890]

Marie, for sure, former Mormons understand and I appreciate so much the insights and comments…and responses to past Mormon posters who were on when I was here.

So it is important you and others remain here.

Yes.

Spiritual bridges, who are connected to each side, are invaluable.