To have a child or not to have a child

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Sonorus

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NFP

My wife and I (married last december) just got out of debt. We’ve finally paid off our student loans and we’ve now entered the debate onto wheather to have kids now or wait a little bit. I would like to know what you all think.

My wife is planning on staying at home with the kids. Right now, she is working a good science job, and I’m working in engineering. We are right out of college, so we have no significant savings. Two cars, both paid off. We are currently debating to have kids now (stop abstaining during fertle periods) or wait 6 months, then start to try for kids. We really want a house eventually, as we’re planning on having a good amount of kids if everything works out.

We aren’t in any particular financial hardship. I calculate with our current spending, on just my salary, we have an extra buffer of about 300/month. This can be increased with reduced entertainment and reduced chartiy contributions if necessary. Right now though, with her working, we have an extra of 3000/month! We used that windfall to pay off our debt quickly, and now are eyeing a downpayment on a house after we build an emergency fund. Turns out these are super expsensive. For a $180,000 house (nothing fancy), it’s $36,000 for a good downpayment. On my salary, that will take years and years to save for. We wouldn’t have much extra for college savings, car replacements when they break down, ect.

If we waited just a little bit, we could have a near downpayment by the time the baby was born. 6 months of waiting, and we have half the downpayment saved up before we start trying to concieve. Assuming we concieve right away, that’s the whole thing by the time the baby is born. We could bide our time and stay in our apartment for awhile (one baby doesn’t need a house), but we’d be secure and when we need a house, we can get one.

We are torn as to whether this is an acceptable reason to wait to have kids. We can save literally 10x better with her working, and it is very important for us for her to be able to stay home and quit her job with the kid. Of course, read around the internet on Catholic sites and you’ll find widly varying points of view. From “the couple knows best”, to if you aren’t in absolute poverty, you are committing sin by abstaining during the fertile period. I’ve prayed about the decision, I’ve read a Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning. I still don’t have peace about choosing either option. I’m curious and would like to ask for help and advice.
 
I can only tell you what we would do in your situation - we would say “ah, what the heck” and see if we conceive or not. Admittedly, that’s been our approach for the entirety of our marriage. 😛

I don’t feel comfortable saying that it would be sinful or not sinful to continue NFP, but it seems to me that you are in a very good financial position, as you say, you don’t need a house as soon as you have a baby, and you don’t know what other possibilities can come up to increase your income over the next couple of years. It won’t be a $300 only surplus forever.

Though, before the house, I’d build up a solid emergency fund. That seems an ideal use for your wife’s salary at present. (ETA: Just reread the OP and saw you mentioned doing just that! Sounds like a plan. 👍)
 
Sonorus said:
NFP

My wife and I (married last december) just got out of debt. We’ve finally paid off our student loans and we’ve now entered the debate onto wheather to have kids now or wait a little bit. I would like to know what you all think.

My wife is planning on staying at home with the kids. Right now, she is working a good science job, and I’m working in engineering. We are right out of college, so we have no significant savings. Two cars, both paid off. We are currently debating to have kids now (stop abstaining during fertle periods) or wait 6 months, then start to try for kids. We really want a house eventually, as we’re planning on having a good amount of kids if everything works out.

We aren’t in any particular financial hardship. I calculate with our current spending, on just my salary, we have an extra buffer of about 300/month. This can be increased with reduced entertainment and reduced chartiy contributions if necessary. Right now though, with her working, we have an extra of 3000/month! We used that windfall to pay off our debt quickly, and now are eyeing a downpayment on a house after we build an emergency fund. Turns out these are super expsensive. For a $180,000 house (nothing fancy), it’s $36,000 for a good downpayment. On my salary, that will take years and years to save for. We wouldn’t have much extra for college savings, car replacements when they break down, ect.

If we waited just a little bit, we could have a near downpayment by the time the baby was born. 6 months of waiting, and we have half the downpayment saved up before we start trying to concieve. Assuming we concieve right away, that’s the whole thing by the time the baby is born. We could bide our time and stay in our apartment for awhile (one baby doesn’t need a house), but we’d be secure and when we need a house, we can get one.

We are torn as to whether this is an acceptable reason to wait to have kids. We can save literally 10x better with her working, and it is very important for us for her to be able to stay home and quit her job with the kid. Of course, read around the internet on Catholic sites and you’ll find widly varying points of view. From “the couple knows best”, to if you aren’t in absolute poverty, you are committing sin by abstaining during the fertile period. I’ve prayed about the decision, I’ve read a Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning. I still don’t have peace about choosing either option. I’m curious and would like to ask for help and advice.
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I’m sorry but what is the point of strangers on the internet deciding this for you? Weird

Every single one of us would have a different threshold for when we “decide” (cringe) to have a child… It is subjective morality…
 
We married on December 2013 and conceived our son 4 months later knowing I was fertile. We are still newlyweds, but feels we have been married for 10+ years. Today (please take into account that I’m not in state of grace at the moment) we think that we should have abstained that day. We think it was too soon into our marriage. We do not have a house, we rent. Like you, we are financially ok, no debts. One new car, paid in full (a gift, actually). Nevertheless, our son has brought too much joy in our lives, and no, I do not regret because regretting is denying this little boy who I love so much. My recommendation is to get to know each other better in this new level (marriage) and get used to one another, flaws and everything. Be mentally prepared, so you and your wife don’t feel disappointed of one another. Have no expectations. Personally, I believe that not only you should be financially ready, but mentally as well. If you interview my husband, he would say he is not mentally ready to have another one, the thought of it brings him fear, stress and anxiety. And if I get pregnant again knowing how he feels, I would feel truly miserable.

You know you wife, she knows you. This is best discussed between you two.
 
Sonorus said:
NFP

My wife and I (married last december) just got out of debt. We’ve finally paid off our student loans and we’ve now entered the debate onto wheather to have kids now or wait a little bit. I would like to know what you all think.

My wife is planning on staying at home with the kids. Right now, she is working a good science job, and I’m working in engineering. We are right out of college, so we have no significant savings. Two cars, both paid off. We are currently debating to have kids now (stop abstaining during fertle periods) or wait 6 months, then start to try for kids. We really want a house eventually, as we’re planning on having a good amount of kids if everything works out.

We aren’t in any particular financial hardship. I calculate with our current spending, on just my salary, we have an extra buffer of about 300/month. This can be increased with reduced entertainment and reduced chartiy contributions if necessary. Right now though, with her working, we have an extra of 3000/month! We used that windfall to pay off our debt quickly, and now are eyeing a downpayment on a house after we build an emergency fund. Turns out these are super expsensive. For a $180,000 house (nothing fancy), it’s $36,000 for a good downpayment. On my salary, that will take years and years to save for. We wouldn’t have much extra for college savings, car replacements when they break down, ect.

If we waited just a little bit, we could have a near downpayment by the time the baby was born. 6 months of waiting, and we have half the downpayment saved up before we start trying to concieve. Assuming we concieve right away, that’s the whole thing by the time the baby is born. We could bide our time and stay in our apartment for awhile (one baby doesn’t need a house), but we’d be secure and when we need a house, we can get one.

We are torn as to whether this is an acceptable reason to wait to have kids. We can save literally 10x better with her working, and it is very important for us for her to be able to stay home and quit her job with the kid. Of course, read around the internet on Catholic sites and you’ll find widly varying points of view. From “the couple knows best”, to if you aren’t in absolute poverty, you are committing sin by abstaining during the fertile period. I’ve prayed about the decision, I’ve read a Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning. I still don’t have peace about choosing either option. I’m curious and would like to ask for help and advice.
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Personal finance nerd here! Here are some thoughts:
  1. Congratulations on your debt repayment! That is excellent.
  2. Regarding your house (and housing in general), try to aim for spending 25% or less of household income on housing expenses. The lower your housing costs are as a percentage of income, the more fun life is going to be. Of course, if your wife is planning to quit her job eventually, that means that your housing needs to be 25% or less of your income, not your current combined income.
  3. You are right that once you start having kids, it will likely take you a long, long, long time to save $36k, during which time housing costs will also probably be edging up. We did the kids-first thing and it wound up being 15 years and three kids from the time we got married to the time we bought our first home, even with 50% help from in-laws on the downpayment. (But it’s a big house in a nice neighborhood close to a college campus–not a “starter” home and we have lots of equity.) So, there is genuinely reason to be concerned.
Maybe split the difference and just make a running start on the house downpayment and then start trying? Emergency fund first, of course. Everything breaks the first year after you buy a house.
  1. I think you’ll find that the extra $300 goes very fast, especially in the first year of parenthood.
  2. You’re right that parenthood doesn’t immediately require a house. A fenced yard (or a nearby park) is nice for toddlers, though. I found that my ideas about our house needs changed radically over the first 10+ years of our having children. Another issue is that you don’t really plug into the school info network until you have children, so you might not have solid information on where you should live until you’ve had kids a few years. It happens a lot that people buy a house and then discover that the school district isn’t suitable. Oops!
  3. Unless you have nerves of steel, your level of motivation is going to influence the scrupulousness of your NFP a lot. I’ve gotten pregnant both times I started to feel ambivalent.
  4. There’s a temptation to overspend on the first year or two of parenthood and then to find oneself short in later years. As a rule, aside from the initial major baby equipment acquisitions and the cost of mom not working, babies and toddlers are relatively inexpensive. It’s older children that get more and more expensive as there are more and more things that can’t be done with home resources (for instance, music lessons if you’re not musical). So, pace yourself.
  5. At the same time, budget for your wife to be able to have some SAHM fun–a baby yoga class, a kindermusik class, etc. Those sort of frills help a lot with quality of life. And don’t forget an occasional date night for both of you, too!
  6. Think about school. You don’t have to have it figured out, but be thinking and listening to people in your area.
Best wishes!
 
Providing your credit is decent, you don’t generally have to have 20% in order to get a good interest rate on a home mortgage. On the other hand, there is something to be said for setting up one’s home prior to getting the first baby home. We purchased our home prior to the wedding, but there was a LOT of fairly expensive projects that needed to be done prior to my first pregnancy. (we had 40-year-old carpet and a staircase and bannister that was one egg nog short of a lawsuit.) It doesn’t sound like you are planning on avoiding indefinitely, so I don’t think there’s a major difference if you go ahead or if you wait a year or two to get a few ducks in a row.
 
Sonorus said:
NFP

My wife and I (married last december) just got out of debt. We’ve finally paid off our student loans and we’ve now entered the debate onto wheather to have kids now or wait a little bit. I would like to know what you all think.

My wife is planning on staying at home with the kids. Right now, she is working a good science job, and I’m working in engineering. We are right out of college, so we have no significant savings. Two cars, both paid off. We are currently debating to have kids now (stop abstaining during fertle periods) or wait 6 months, then start to try for kids. We really want a house eventually, as we’re planning on having a good amount of kids if everything works out.

We aren’t in any particular financial hardship. I calculate with our current spending, on just my salary, we have an extra buffer of about 300/month. This can be increased with reduced entertainment and reduced chartiy contributions if necessary. Right now though, with her working, we have an extra of 3000/month! We used that windfall to pay off our debt quickly, and now are eyeing a downpayment on a house after we build an emergency fund. Turns out these are super expsensive. For a $180,000 house (nothing fancy), it’s $36,000 for a good downpayment. On my salary, that will take years and years to save for. We wouldn’t have much extra for college savings, car replacements when they break down, ect.

If we waited just a little bit, we could have a near downpayment by the time the baby was born. 6 months of waiting, and we have half the downpayment saved up before we start trying to concieve. Assuming we concieve right away, that’s the whole thing by the time the baby is born. We could bide our time and stay in our apartment for awhile (one baby doesn’t need a house), but we’d be secure and when we need a house, we can get one.

We are torn as to whether this is an acceptable reason to wait to have kids. We can save literally 10x better with her working, and it is very important for us for her to be able to stay home and quit her job with the kid. Of course, read around the internet on Catholic sites and you’ll find widly varying points of view. From “the couple knows best”, to if you aren’t in absolute poverty, you are committing sin by abstaining during the fertile period. I’ve prayed about the decision, I’ve read a Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning. I still don’t have peace about choosing either option. I’m curious and would like to ask for help and advice.
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Wait for at least 3 months before making up your minds…then you will only require putting off the decision 3 further months…until finally no decision might need be made…!

This reasonable advice brought to you by the father of 7 children…:rolleyes:
 
Well, we just left it all to God, and somehow, we managed to homeschool, have a very modest home, went on a camping vacation every year, and all the kids are college graduates, on their own, in their 20s.

God does have a way of laughing at us, as we PLAN PLAN PLAN. He doubly laughed at us when we thought “how can we possibly afford still another child”; he sent us twins.
 
Go, be fruitful and multiply.
God did not say Go, be successful and wait until you have everything settled and clear before you have a baby.

Come on, stop being so worldly and selfish.

Trust in the Lord!

The beauty of the family is all worth the while.
 
There are two factors beyond general financial planning that you and your wife should seriously evaluate before you make a decision either way on starting a family at this time.

The first factor is her career ambition. I see you say she would like to be a SAHM. Does she see herself exiting the work force permanently once you start a family? What would she do if, for some reason, you jointly are unable to have more than one or two? Will she want to keep her hand in her work part-time following children’s arrival? Even if you have several children and she stays at home for a time, they may be born in a tight cluster over a relatively short period of time, allowing her to resume her career once they are “old” enough (by your family’s standards) to be in external care or school. What does she want to do once your children are grown? With life expectancies spanning 30-40 years past the ages when adult children would leave home, there is considerable scope to pursue professional or volunteer work after children.

I would caution that some women who, ex ante, choose to be SAHMs eventually decide to re-enter the workforce to pursue career ambitions. Personal ambitions can change after one, two, or six children, and it’s good to have built-in options so that she preserves opportunities to re-enter her career should a need or desire arise.

It is easier to re-enter the workforce after gaining experience and contacts than as a new graduate with little work experience and no contacts.

The second factor I’d recommend you get clarity around is your respective health statuses. Have comprehensive bloodwork done at your next annual physical to understand if there are any major health impediments to fertility so that you aren’t putting off children if your prospects for a large family later are at all at risk.
 
alphawoman said:
There are two factors beyond general financial planning that you and your wife should seriously evaluate before you make a decision either way on starting a family at this time.

The first factor is her career ambition. I see you say she would like to be a SAHM. Does she see herself exiting the work force permanently once you start a family? What would she do if, for some reason, you jointly are unable to have more than one or two? Will she want to keep her hand in her work part-time following children’s arrival? Even if you have several children and she stays at home for a time, they may be born in a tight cluster over a relatively short period of time, allowing her to resume her career once they are “old” enough (by your family’s standards) to be in external care or school. What does she want to do once your children are grown? With life expectancies spanning 30-40 years past the ages when adult children would leave home, there is considerable scope to pursue professional or volunteer work after children.

I would caution that some women who, ex ante, choose to be SAHMs eventually decide to re-enter the workforce to pursue career ambitions. Personal ambitions can change after one, two, or six children, and it’s good to have built-in options so that she preserves opportunities to re-enter her career should a need or desire arise.

It is easier to re-enter the workforce after gaining experience and contacts than as a new graduate with little work experience and no contacts.

The second factor I’d recommend you get clarity around is your respective health statuses. Have comprehensive bloodwork done at your next annual physical to understand if there are any major health impediments to fertility so that you aren’t putting off children if your prospects for a large family later are at all at risk.
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That’s very good advice.
 
My prayer that you will be granted the right child/children at the right time. God’s gift. God’s time.
 
Sonorus said:
NFP

My wife and I (married last december) just got out of debt. We’ve finally paid off our student loans and we’ve now entered the debate onto wheather to have kids now or wait a little bit. I would like to know what you all think.

My wife is planning on staying at home with the kids. Right now, she is working a good science job, and I’m working in engineering. We are right out of college, so we have no significant savings. Two cars, both paid off. We are currently debating to have kids now (stop abstaining during fertle periods) or wait 6 months, then start to try for kids. We really want a house eventually, as we’re planning on having a good amount of kids if everything works out.

We aren’t in any particular financial hardship. I calculate with our current spending, on just my salary, we have an extra buffer of about 300/month. This can be increased with reduced entertainment and reduced chartiy contributions if necessary. Right now though, with her working, we have an extra of 3000/month! We used that windfall to pay off our debt quickly, and now are eyeing a downpayment on a house after we build an emergency fund. Turns out these are super expsensive. For a $180,000 house (nothing fancy), it’s $36,000 for a good downpayment. On my salary, that will take years and years to save for. We wouldn’t have much extra for college savings, car replacements when they break down, ect.

If we waited just a little bit, we could have a near downpayment by the time the baby was born. 6 months of waiting, and we have half the downpayment saved up before we start trying to concieve. Assuming we concieve right away, that’s the whole thing by the time the baby is born. We could bide our time and stay in our apartment for awhile (one baby doesn’t need a house), but we’d be secure and when we need a house, we can get one.

We are torn as to whether this is an acceptable reason to wait to have kids. We can save literally 10x better with her working, and it is very important for us for her to be able to stay home and quit her job with the kid. Of course, read around the internet on Catholic sites and you’ll find widly varying points of view. From “the couple knows best”, to if you aren’t in absolute poverty, you are committing sin by abstaining during the fertile period. I’ve prayed about the decision, I’ve read a Sinner’s Guide to Natural Family Planning. I still don’t have peace about choosing either option. I’m curious and would like to ask for help and advice.
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No, the $180,000 house will not cut it. You should probably wait until you can purchase a $400,000 house. That would be much better for raising a large Catholic family. But do not take on unnecessary debt to do it. You should wait until you can pay cash for the entire thing. And don’t skimp on the furniture - if you purchase quality, it will pay for itself in time. That too, you will want to purchase with cash. Don’t fall back into debt!

Then you have to consider the cars. They are paid off now, but do you have the savings for their replacements? You have to figure that you will want a couple of decent vehicles, but remain in conformity with our moral responsibility to the environment. But get something you will enjoy - after all, next to your home, your car will be your biggest asset. Figure $43,000 each for a pair of BMW i3 electric cars. Moral, responsible, and stylish. You can’t go wrong there.

Now, let’s say you are planning on 8 children. Of course, you will want to send them to the finest schools. Don’t skimp on their education! Figure roughly $50,000 per year each at a decent university, that’s $200,000 per child or $1,600,000 to put all eight through their undergraduate years. You might want to put aside a little extra for graduate schools. Everyone else’s kid will also have a BS/BA so they will need that little edge to remain competitive.

You might want to wait just a little while more until you have put aside a little nest egg to cover these incidental expenses.

Or, if you view children as gifts from God that are more priceless than any Earthly treasure, you could simply trust in God’s grace and welcome new life into your family.

Whatever works for you.
 
I second Alphawoman. You may end up having infertility issues. They are more and more common these days. If you want children at all, I’d try for one relatively soon (you said six months, that sound reasonable, but I wouldn’t wait any longer.) So in six months start trying for baby one. Baby may come right away, or you may have troubles conceiving, or carrying babies to term, and you will be super thankful you didn’t wait longer to try.

This comes from experience. We’ve been married almost ten years, only one pregnancy (ended in miscarriage) and we started trying on our wedding night. Turns out I had severe Endometriosis which has had a severe effect on my health and now we are using NFP to avoid future miscarriages as it was just too much emotional pain to endure, and now my physical health isn’t great either. With my condition subsequent miscarriages are common and we just can’t do that yet. We went from wanting a large family of like 6-8 kids to having no living children. You just never know what’s in God’s plans. 🤷
 
fencersmother said:
God does have a way of laughing at us, as we PLAN PLAN PLAN. He doubly laughed at us when we thought “how can we possibly afford still another child”; he sent us twins.
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👍

I hate to be a pessimist but… I know a couple that decided the wife would quit her job to go back to school. She gave her employer 2 weeks notice and they found a replacement. The day her classes started, her husband got laid off unexpectedly and she had to drop out of school since they no longer could afford it.

Just because you could save $300/month on your income right now, it does not mean you will always be so fortunate.

Moral of the story ‘Learn to trust God while life is good. Then when life is bad, it will be easier to turn to him’

However IMO considering you are young and NFP has been know to fail, I would wiat to have kids. Simply because if you reach your desired amount of children by 30, you could have 15+ years of needing NFP to work perfectly. But that is just my opinion

Angie
 
Anglewannabe said:
👍

I hate to be a pessimist but… I know a couple that decided the wife would quit her job to go back to school. She gave her employer 2 weeks notice and they found a replacement. The day her classes started, her husband got laid off unexpectedly and she had to drop out of school since they no longer could afford it.

Just because you could save $300/month on your income right now, it does not mean you will always be so fortunate.

Moral of the story ‘Learn to trust God while life is good. Then when life is bad, it will be easier to turn to him’

However IMO considering you are young and NFP has been know to fail, I would wiat to have kids. Simply because if you reach your desired amount of children by 30, you could have 15+ years of needing NFP to work perfectly. But that is just my opinion

Angie
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Well I would disagree postponing having ANY children too long, unless there is a serious reason. They can always have the first and then postpone subsequent children for a few years if need be. 😉
 
Convert_in_99 said:
Well I would disagree postponing having ANY children too long, unless there is a serious reason. They can always have the first and then postpone subsequent children for a few years if need be. 😉
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Well…let’s leave that up to them 😉
 
Paganus said:
Or, if you view children as gifts from God that are more priceless than any Earthly treasure, you could simply trust in God’s grace and welcome new life into your family.
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Because that’s all there is to it. There are never any disabled children that will do better in school districts that the family can’t afford to live in, mom never starts wigging out because dad is never around, mothers never have difficult pregnancies or postpartum depression, mothers never discover that homeschooling isn’t their cup of tea or that it isn’t their toddler’s cup of tea, and married couples never fight and divorce over money.

Oh, wait–none of that is true.
 
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