To Hold or not to hold, that is the question

[deogratias]

I am going to guess that the ratio of those in favor of hand holding during the pater noster will be lower than those disapproving bit let’s take a count.

 

[Joan_M]

We should not hold hands at the Our Father, and we should not use the Orans position. The first was introduced in the early 70’s - I think in the Netherlands, but possibly also at the same time, in the U.S… It is just a “touchy-feely” sentimental thing. In fact, it almost totally negates the Sign of Peace, which follows it. Think of it - holding hands with one’s neighbor is much more intimate than shaking hands. What gets me, is the hurt looks and glares when I simply bow my head, eyes closed, and hands clasped, instead of eagerly clasping their hand!

As for the Orans position - I have no idea where this came from (I mean the laity doing it, not the priest!). Probably from Charismatic prayer groups. Now, there is nothing wrong in using this in a prayer group - outside of the Mass. But - it is only for the priest at Mass. So, when we do it, it seems that we are trying to imitate the priest.

What’s wrong with “prayer hands”? Joining our own hands - either fingers laced, or the way we were taught in our earliest years?

Too many of our priests either do not discourage holding hands, or even encourage it. Why can’t we just be obedient, instead of looking for ways to “enhance” the Liturgy?

 

[space_ghost]

How about one more voting option… hold hands if you want to, but if you don’t see me reaching out to you, please don’t apply pressure to me via a look or touch… i am really ok if you want to, but personally i’d sooner be left alone… and that’s only so I can concentrate on the prayer and not be wondering when i’m supposed to let go… that always seems to vary among the grabbers…

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Thank heavens my large family takes up the entire pew! :yup: No one squeezes in with us and tries to hold hands!

I just do not, for the life of me, know why a priest ~ who dedicates his life to the Church, the Eucharist, and the Sacrifice of the Mass ~ does not care to instruct the faithful on the proper respect to be shown to his Bride, when he has the opportunity during every weekly homily as well as in the bulletin.

We are not instructed on the most important matters, but are encouraged and entertained and maybe if we’re lucky, given a little “food for thought” during most homilies.

The ignorance out there is astonishing! We are not being instructed. (And I’m no genius myself, mind you! But I am amazed at how little some Catholics know about their own weekly worship practices. If we should know anything at all, you’d think it would be The Mass!)

Pax Christi. <><

 

[Annunciata]

I voted not to hold hands. I believe this started during the arrival if the Charismatic Renewal in the 70’s…at least that is when I first experienced it (Ihave to admit, I liked it). But, then there were the abuses…and I think the GIRM frowns on it…? (correct me if I’m wrong). I have a really hard time when my grandchildren attend Mass w/ us as they hold hands at the Pater Noster in their church…so in love, which overcomes all, I hold hands w/ them. (those beautiful little angels)!

 

[Marauder]

I’d say 95% of the time I do not hold hands. I know the rules concerning this and I feel violating those rules when you know the rules CAN be a sin. So I avoid it.

The only times I will hold hands is when a young child that I don’t know does it or a religious order person (i.e. nun) does it.

I feel that it isn’t worth upsetting the kid and when a nun in my church does it, I’m not going to make a show by refusing. Anyone else, I will just hold my hands as if in prayer and if they complain, explain to them afterwards what the church has officially said about hold hands during the Our Father.

 

[Veronica_Anne]

Oh, gee… I had to choose one… so I chose WE SHOULD JUST BOW OUR HEADS AND PRAY.

I chose that one because that seems to be the best way for me to deal with this whole thing without being disruptive to others. I try… really I do… to not be judgemental of others, especially when yet again whomever is next to me decides that it is up to them to backhand slap my arm to get me to open my eyes and take their hand while I’m praying the Lord’s prayer.

We definitely are NOT to use the orans postion – which is the position that the priest takes on behalf of us all.

And we should DEFINITELY NOT do it just because others do it.

I’ve already addressed it with the pastor, telling him that holding hands is converting the prayer to a horizontal prayer rather than the vertical prayer which it is. His reply was that the GIRM does NOT say NOT to do it, so he’s telling us to do it.

So, I gave up… and now I just close my eyes, hang my folded hands, and pray out loud so that my voice joins in union with the rest of the people’s voices.

Has anybody else noticed that the Lord’s Prayer and the ending part afterwards is where people are the LOUDEST - by far?

Makes me wonder… do others know and are convinced of the other parts that we say out loud? Maybe they’re that loud at the Lord’s Prayer because they remember how it goes?

We should hold hands 4 5.97%
We should not 14 20.90%
We should use orans position 3 4.48%
We should not 9 13.43%
We should just bow heads and pray 14 20.90%
We should not do it just because others do 14 20.90%
We should address our concerns with the pastor 9 13.43%

Voters: 25. You have already voted on this poll

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Veronica Anne:

especially when yet again whomever is next to me decides that it is up to them to backhand slap my arm to get me to open my eyes and take their hand while I’m praying the Lord’s prayer.

Indeed, we’re made to feel as if we’re doing something wrong if we try to participate in the Mass in accordance with the GIRM!

If holding hands is not in the GIRM (which it is not) then we are not to interject it! The priest surely knows this!

 

[deogratias]

Has anybody else noticed that the Lord’s Prayer and the ending part afterwards is where people are the LOUDEST

You mean the part that goes “For thine is the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory, Forever”?

When I was a young woman this was not included in the Catholic version of the Our Father - I guess it was added to attract protestants to our religion, anyone know for sure why this was added???

 

[Servulus]

deogratias:

You mean the part that goes “For thine is the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory, Forever”?

When I was a young woman this was not included in the Catholic version of the Our Father - I guess it was added to attract protestants to our religion, anyone know for sure why this was added???

This prayer has always been a part of the Mass, but was not said aloud by the faithful in the Tridentine liturgy. It’s always been a separate prayer from the Our Father.

With regard to the hand-holding and “orans” practice, it’s also interesting to note that many folks who’ve adopted this practice seem to think that’s the only time during Mass when the position of the hands makes any difference. The rest of the time it may be: arms folded, hands in pockets, hands clasped behind back, or any of a number of other things. Why would the position of our hands only be important for that two-minute period?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

From the Catechism of the Catholic church, 2760:

2760 Very early on, liturgical usage concluded the Lord’s Prayer with a doxology. In the Didache, we find, “For yours are the power and the glory for ever.”[4] The Apostolic Constitutions add to the beginning: “the kingdom,” and this is the formula retained to our day in ecumenical prayer.[5]
The Byzantine tradition adds after “the glory” the words “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” The Roman Missal develops the last petition in the explicit perspective of “awaiting our blessed hope” and of the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.[6] Then comes the assembly’s acclamation or the repetition of the doxology from the Apostolic Constitutions.>>

So it looks like the Protestants were not only looking to cull the canon of the Bible (by throwing out the deuterocanonicals) but also looking to add in some of the apocrypha (The Didache).

I believe that in the spirit of ecumenism Vatican II allowed for this doxology AFTER (not part of) The Lord’s Prayer in the Mass, as the early churches had indeed used a variant of the doxology, and indeed other doxologies (the Gloria Patria for example) in the services.

But of course it is not a PART of the Lord’s prayer, as anyone who reads the gospel of Matthew will NOT find it there. It is, simply, a doxology to be read AFTER the Lord’s Prayer.

 

[juno24]

I voted in error. I meant to vote “We should not” hold hands, but I checked the box for “we should hold hands” by mistake. Of course I realized it just as I hit Post, so it was too late to change it. I stand with my head bowed, hands clasped in front of me during the Our Father. I must add that I am just about the only one who does. Just about everyone else immediately grabs the hand of whomever is close to them, regardless of the fact that the other person may not even be in the same pew.

 

[Ryan_Vincent]

I chose the “we should not do it just because others do it option” since that was the one that best fit my view. I have no problem when I see families or friends at Mass holding hands, just as long as they don’t expect others to join them. At the parish I attend I would say about a quarter of the people are holding hands and its almost entirely a family thing where nobody else is expected to join in.

I think one of the reasons that some people like the idea of holding hands is the sense of community they feel it builds. I think a good solution to this would be to have prayer groups outside of the Mass where this kind of thing would be more openly tolerated. Afterall, if you want to build community during Mass by holding hands but refuse to do anything with the parish outside of Mass (such as prayer groups, etc.) then you aren’t really trying to build community at all.

 

[deogratias]

" think one of the reasons that some people like the idea of holding hands is the sense of community they feel it builds

"

But that is what reception of the Holy Eucharist is supposed to do - that’s why it is called “communion”.

 

[Ryan_Vincent]

"

But that is what reception of the Holy Eucharist is supposed to do - that’s why it is called “communion”.

My fault, I probably misphrased what I was trying to say.

What I meant by saying that those who prefer to hold hands do so because it is a sense of community building is that they see it as community building in addition to the Eucharist. I doubt they are trying to make the Our Father take the place of the Eucharist but instead they see holding hands as another way to show unity within the Church.

But I will add, this is alot of speculation on my part as I do not know what is going through the minds of those do hold hands. Perhaps I am right on the mark, or perhaps I am way out in left field.

 

[deogratias]

Ryan Vincent:

But I will add, this is alot of speculation on my part as I do not know what is going through the minds of those do hold hands. Perhaps I am right on the mark, or perhaps I am way out in left field.

My guess is nothing is going through their heads - someone reaches for heir hand, they give it without thought, even when they don’t like it because they see it all around them, it probably started with one or two and just grew without thought or purpose and now it has become so embedded in some parishes it has taken on a life of its own - sort of like a tidal wave

 

[mark_a]

I guess I missed it, but what exactly are the rules?

I am generally uncomfortable with it, but am getting used to it. I have noticed that a lot of the really large families (likely very devout) don’t hold hands.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

The rules for conducting Mass can be found in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal ( usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.htm ) affectionately termed, “the GIRM.”
These are strict guidelines for correctly celebrating the Mass, and nothing is supposed to be added to them, nor omitted from them.

Pax Christi. <><

 

[Deacon2006]

This weekend I saw two little altar girls maybe 7or 8 years old stand up and hold the priests hands during the our Father. They looked like little angels in their albs and flowing green mantles(?). You could almost feel everyone say ‘don’t they look like a dad and his two daughters’ as he stood in the middle in his green Chuasible. It moved my wife and I almost to tears as we fought back the laughter.

Why is it so hard to just have a priest adopt the gesture in the rubrics and lead the congregation in prayer?

God Bless

 

[deogratias]

Indeed, why?