To judge or not to judge...

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…that is the question.

I came upon this post:
Why in the world would you ever want to do that??? Judgement, the ability to judge, is a gift from God. It is what separates us from the animals, and gives us the ability to make a “judgement” on what is right or wrong, good or evil. Being judgmental is not a bad and evil thing. You are an intelligent human being - don’t shy away from your ability to think and rationalize and judge - God gave you that ability!!!
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and it seems to be completely contrary to the whole “Judge not lest ye be judged” idea.

Which leaves me a bit confused…

Where does the church, officially, stand?
 
Look around (search for) Natural Law. (Or someone else may post-I’m about to leave here)…

From the “Age of Reason” around the age of 7, when we make our first Reconciliation and Holy Communion-the Church believes we are old enough to know Right from Wrong.

The Secular (Godless) World today doesn’t want us to judge anything. This would be a sin.

Of course we are to judge actions and words. Someone stealing or cussing-we know it’s wrong. We would not be Christians if we thought, “Well, I cannot judge that.”

Just how could we teach our children? Daughter, I can’t judge you if you want to have sex with your boyfriend.

To put it in a nutshell: We judge actions and words—but never (ever) a soul to Heaven or Hell. <-That, is in God’s Hands entirely. Mother Angelica says we’ll be surprised when we get there (Heaven)-who actually made it (accepted God’s Mercy and was saved).

Words, Actions. Never souls. Even the Church doesn’t declare lost souls (some-in Heaven-think Saints). Only God knows all the actions toward or against the soul, and what it was capable of, and capable of defending itself from. Also, if at the last moment, if the soul turned back to God. However-the next life is ~usually~ a continuation of this.

God Bless you.
+Peace On Earth, Good Will Toward Men.
Love, Dawn
 
JChapel said:
…that is the question.

I came upon this post:

and it seems to be completely contrary to the whole “Judge not lest ye be judged” idea.

Which leaves me a bit confused…

Where does the church, officially, stand?
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See catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0702btb.asp
*"Often people in these situations have tried to take some action already, only to be shot down immediately with the accusation that they are being “judgmental,” that the Bible teaches us not to judge others, that they should just mind their own business. “After all,” they’re told, “I’m not judging you and you shouldn’t be judging me. Read the Bible.” But is that really what the Bible teaches?

When pressed to show where the Bible supports this, those who can come up with any response at all usually point to Jesus’ words found in the Gospel of Matthew, “Judge not, that you not be judged.” Most people will stop there, with the clear conviction that the Bible teaches that we are not to pass any form of judgment on others. A closer look at this Bible verse and other related verses, however, uncovers a different understanding of Jesus’ teaching.

First, let’s look at the full context of Jesus’ words:

** Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me take the speck out of your eye,” when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Matt. 7:1-5)**

If we break this passage down line by line, it becomes clear that Jesus was not telling his disciples that they could not ever judge the behavior of others. Rather, he was cautioning them to live righteous lives themselves so that their judgment of others’ behavior would not be rash judgment and their efforts would be effective in admonishing their neighbors."*
 
JChapel said:
…that is the question.

I came upon this post:
Why in the world would you ever want to do that??? Judgement, the ability to judge, is a gift from God. It is what separates us from the animals, and gives us the ability to make a “judgement” on what is right or wrong, good or evil. Being judgmental is not a bad and evil thing. You are an intelligent human being - don’t shy away from your ability to think and rationalize and judge - God gave you that ability!!!
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I punched “Judge” into the search engine of the catechism and did not come up with a direct answer to your question so instead I will rely on Christ’s own words to respond.

The quote you give above is from Mt 7:1, but look this within it’s context:
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.
St Luke in Ch 6 of His Gospel states it slightly differently.
37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
Finally I supply this link to which shows all the times the word “judge” is used int he Gospels.
I find the one in John 5:30 to be of particular interest:
I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

We too are sent, by Christ, and must not seek our own will but the will of Him who sends us.

Too often the, “judge not…”, verse is used by others to prevent our making a right judgement on something that is good or bad. This is not what is intended. We are to judge based on the Will of God. We need to discern carefully and in the light of the divine Law of Love.
wW must rmember that how we judge will be how we are to be judged, just as how we forgive will be howe are forgiven.
Do we judge harshly? fairly? carefully? quickly? rightly? wrongly?
Do we judge our neighbor or do we judge actions while loving our neighbor?
These are things to be weighed when looking at “judging”

Peace
James
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JChapel said:
…that is the question.

I came upon this post:

and it seems to be completely contrary to the whole “Judge not lest ye be judged” idea.

Which leaves me a bit confused…

Where does the church, officially, stand?
Click to expand...
As I understand it, and teach my classes, one may, and must, judge actions, but not the culpability of the one who does it. We are obliged to have a well formed conscience and use it to distinguish right from wrong. However, only God can see the soul and judge the guilt of the one who does the act.
 
JChapel
As I suspected, we should judge actions, but not people.
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Yes we should be very clear on this, and since it is people who act, write and speak, we are judging their activities in relation to the truth.

Apart from commanding the woman found in adultery to “go and sin no more” the Christ commanded us to
“Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (Jn 7:24).
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).
“Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:19-20).

And St Paul, following the Master:
“Test everything: retain what is good.” (1Thess 5:21).
“The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgement by anyone.” (1 Cor 2:15).

Further:
“Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 Jn 4:1).

“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” (Rev 3:16).

That is precisely why we judge actions, speech, writing against true teaching as to what is good and what is evil.

Jesus has commanded “Stop judging, that you may not be not judged.” (Mt 7:1; read 1-5). Thus we are commanded not to judge others regarding their motives, intentions, and guilt before God (a judgment reserved to God).
 
Bear in mind that the Greek word used by Luke and by Matthew’s translator (krino) tilts more in the direction of condemning than simply expressing an opinion about something.

DaveBj
 
JChapel said:
Where does the church, officially, stand?
Click to expand...
Thou shalt not judge. (Mt 7:1) In these words our Lord* forbids rash judgment** which is about the inward intention, or other uncertain things, as Augustine states. Or else He forbids judgment about Divine things, which we ought not to judge, but simply believe, since they are above us, as Hilary declares in his commentary on Mt. 5. Or again according to Chrysostom, He forbids the judgment which proceeds not from benevolence but from bitterness of heart.*

*Judgment is lawful in so far as it is an act of justice. Now it follows from what has been stated above (1, ad 1,3) that three conditions are requisite for a judgment to be an act of justice: first, that it proceed from the inclination of justice; secondly, that it come from one who is in authority; thirdly, that it be pronounced according to the right ruling of prudence. If any one of these be lacking, the judgment will be faulty and unlawful. First, when it is contrary to the rectitude of justice, and then it is called “perverted” or “unjust”: secondly, when a man judges about matters wherein he has no authority, and this is called judgment “by usurpation”: thirdly, when the reason lacks certainty, as when a man, without any solid motive, forms a judgment on some doubtful or hidden matter, and then it is called judgment by “suspicion” or “rash”. *(Aquinas, ST II/II 60,2)

Ender
 
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