To kneel or not kneel when Tabernacle is opened

  • Thread starter Thread starter P_Siena
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

P_Siena

Guest
I have searched everywhere and I cannot find norms for what are the appropriate postures of the faithful when the tabernacle door is opened in a Church, outside of Mass, for a communion call, etc… .

On one hand I have seen places where everyone goes about their business, no matter what proximity you are to the tabernacle. Only the minister offers revererence.

I have seen other places (rare) where the opening of the tabernacle door for a communion call was like exposition of the Eucharist, everyone in the Church was expected to stop and kneel until the Minister closed the door.

A third interpretion indicated special reverence was due only those in the Sanctuary at the time, who knelt, but all others continued moving in the Church, following the normal reverences designated for when the crossed in front of the tabernacle.

Where might I find the correct norms for this? I guess the last interp (3), seems most balanced since the mere attendance to sick is not a public act of worship, and are we to presume everytime the tabernacle doors are opened we in effect are engaged in a public exposition of the Blessed Sacrament?
 
In our parish, when the priest reposes the Blessed Sacrament following the First Friday Exposition and before Saturday morning Mass, most people in church will kneel. We do this in recognition and reverence towards Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. The same could be true in the church you have visited where people kneel when an EMHC or priest or deacon opens the tabernacle to get Hosts for the homebound. I don’t know if there is such a norm for posture in this regard outside the Mass but it is a good sign of reverence to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament no matter if you are doing this out of your own personal reverence or you are just going with the flow.
 
As Zab stated, in the parish where I go, all kneel when the door is opened by anyone, both withing the context of Mass and outside of Mass. It seems right to do so.

-Tim-
 
At my parish, sometimes the door of the Tabernacle is left open during the Communion Rite.

I felt a bit uncomfortable with this until it occurred to me that Jesus is also present in every Host on the altar and in everyone who has received.

The open door of the Tabernacle reminded me of the larger reality and that Jesus is always there watching everything we do.
 
Say if all do kneel— Now if you are teaching this to someone, is this being taught as a pious custom, or a obligatory rubric? It depends once again on its source.
Additionally for those who know the traditions of other countries, have you observed the same custom there?
Again I am not trying to judge the practice per se, only to acertain its nature (universal norm, custom that has force of law, a pious practice proper to some countries, etc…)
 
Viola_Incognita said:
At my parish, sometimes the door of the Tabernacle is left open during the Communion Rite.

I felt a bit uncomfortable with this until it occurred to me that Jesus is also present in every Host on the altar and in everyone who has received.

The open door of the Tabernacle reminded me of the larger reality and that Jesus is always there watching everything we do.
Click to expand...
Nice observation. In the setting of the distribution of the Eucharist, the status of the tabernacle door would seem to be secondary to the Presence among the faithful at that time.
 
P_Siena said:
Say if all do kneel— Now if you are teaching this to someone, is this being taught as a pious custom, or a obligatory rubric? It depends once again on its source.
Additionally for those who know the traditions of other countries, have you observed the same custom there?
Again I am not trying to judge the practice per se, only to acertain its nature (universal norm, custom that has force of law, a pious practice proper to some countries, etc…)
Click to expand...
It is not being taught. It is just a pious practice that people do and others imitate.
 
P_Siena said:
I have searched everywhere and I cannot find norms for what are the appropriate postures of the faithful when the tabernacle door is opened in a Church, outside of Mass, for a communion call, etc… .

On one hand I have seen places where everyone goes about their business, no matter what proximity you are to the tabernacle. Only the minister offers revererence.

I have seen other places (rare) where the opening of the tabernacle door for a communion call was like exposition of the Eucharist, everyone in the Church was expected to stop and kneel until the Minister closed the door.

A third interpretion indicated special reverence was due only those in the Sanctuary at the time, who knelt, but all others continued moving in the Church, following the normal reverences designated for when the crossed in front of the tabernacle.

Where might I find the correct norms for this? I guess the last interp (3), seems most balanced since the mere attendance to sick is not a public act of worship, and are we to presume everytime the tabernacle doors are opened we in effect are engaged in a public exposition of the Blessed Sacrament?
Click to expand...
When one passes the tabernacle, a genuflection is required.
When one opens or one closes the tabernacle, a genuflection is required of the person opening or closing the tabernacle.
There are no rubics requireing the congregation to genuflect, that I am aware of, in the above circumstances…
Look in G.I.R.M.and also Canon Law.
 
Viola_Incognita said:
At my parish, sometimes the door of the Tabernacle is left open during the Communion Rite.

I felt a bit uncomfortable with this until it occurred to me that Jesus is also present in every Host on the altar and in everyone who has received.

The open door of the Tabernacle reminded me of the larger reality and that Jesus is always there watching everything we do.
Click to expand...
This is a practical necessity. The priest leaves the tabernacle open during Communion because when he’s finished distributing Communion, he has to return the remaining Hosts (inside the ciborium) back into the tabernacle. It’s very awkward trying to open the tabernacle door while still holding the ciborium—and that means there’s more danger of spilling the ciborium.

The priest only has 2 hands. In his left hand, he has the ciborium, so he cannot use the left to open the door. He can’t use the first 2 fingers of his right hand to do anything until he purifies them (in case there are crumbs of the consecrated Host on them). That leaves the last 3 fingers of the right hand to turn the key and open the door—as I said, awkward. Closing it is easier.
 
thomas_jd said:
When one passes the tabernacle, a genuflection is required.
When one opens or one closes the tabernacle, a genuflection is required of the person opening or closing the tabernacle.
There are no rubics requireing the congregation to genuflect, that I am aware of, in the above circumstances…
Look in G.I.R.M.and also Canon Law.
Click to expand...
Thomas, thanks… So therefore when describing this practice one can say it is pious custom that is not obligatory, but is worthy above all if you are close to the tabernacle or are praying nearby in the Church. This is important so we know that the faithful should not feel scandalized if it is omitted. It is perhaps like using the Holy Water fonts, a worthy custom but not obligatory to enter a church.

If I had to give an opinion about it being mandated, it would seem almost as if, in a church with varying persons praying, others carrying out duties in the Church in remote corners, that mandating that all kneel in that moment would make it look as if it were a public act of worship- as if Our Lord were being exposed on the Altar for Adoration in a monstrance, which is not the case. It is, rather, a private act of ministerial duty being carried out.
 
thomas j said:
When one passes the tabernacle, a genuflection is required.
When one opens or one closes the tabernacle, a genuflection is required of the person opening or closing the tabernacle.
There are no rubik’s requiring the congregation to genuflect, that I am aware of, in the above circumstances…
Look in G.I.R.M.and also Canon Law.
Click to expand...
👍

Its too bad a lot of EMHC’s in my parish couldn’t learn this.

I mean when should the Sanctuary ever become a too familiar territory in the Church?

I think Complacency and utter disregard for the Holy Presence Who resides in the Holy Blessed Sacrament on the Sanctuary has a way of becoming our undoing.
 
I do it…but as far as I know it’s not set in stone I have seen also good Catholic men bow at the waist and ladies do a curtsy thing at times…someone smarter than me can correct me here…I think it in general is Personal Piety (not one who bows is more pious than one bowing from the waist. I actually read up on some amazing old liturgical gestures, on my right hand is a ring with splayed gold Temple Crosses I kiss the finger it is a very ancient sign of worship , (you actually see it in some EO bodies more) I don’t do it to look Holy:) I do it as I find for myself physical gestures / postures/ acts…" pull" me into the Worship…but…that’s me!!!🙂
 
Here’s some interesting information to put things into perspective and compare where-we-once-were to where-we-are-today. Here are the rubrics for taking Holy Communion to the sick as they were printed in 1964. Now, I want to caution people that I seriously doubt that all these rubrics were actually being followed on a day-by-day basis. And perhaps it’s a good thing that the Church has changed the rubrics so that they no longer express things that were not happening anyway. Nevertheless, it’s an interesting read:
  1. As the pastor proceeds to take communion to one who is sick, he will by ringing the church bells, assemble some of his parishioners, either the Confraternity of the Blessed Sacrament (where this organization is in existence) or some other pious faithful, so that they can accompany the holy Eucharist carrying candles or torches, as well as the umbella or canopy if such is available. He will have given notice beforehand that the sickroom be in order, and that there be prepared therein a table covered with clean linen on which the most holy sacrament can be placed with propriety.
  2. The following articles should be in readiness in the sickroom: lighted candles, two vessels–one containing water, the other wine, a linen cloth to be placed under the chin of the communicant, and whatever else will fittingly enhance the room, depending on the peoples’ circumstances.
  3. As soon as the escort for the Blessed Sacrament is assembled the priest vests in surplice and stole, or even in white cope; and likewise vested in surplice are the acolytes or clerics or priests (if they customarily assist) who will accompany him. Then with due reverence he takes some particles (only one, if he is to travel by a long or difficult route) from the ciborium and puts them in a pyx or small receptacle which he closes firmly and covers with a silk veil. Having received the humeral veil over his shoulders, he now takes in both hands the receptacle with the sacrament, and proceeds on the way, walking bareheaded below the umbella or canopy.
  4. At the head of the procession there should always be an acolyte or other server who carries the lantern (the sacrament may not be carried thus at night, except in case of necessity). Following next are two clerics or their substitutes, one of whom carries the holy water with aspersory, the burse containing the corporal to be used in covering the table upon which the Blessed Sacrament will be placed in the sickroom, and the linen purificator for wiping the priest’s fingers; the other carries the Ritual and the little bell which he rings continually. Then follow the torchbearers; and lastly the priest, holding the sacrament elevated before his breast and reciting the “Miserere” or other psalms and canticles. Should the journey be long or difficult, and even perhaps made on horseback, it will be necessary that the receptacle with the sacrament be securely encased in a beautifully made burse, and this fastened to the neck and secured at the breast, so as to prevent the sacrament from falling or being shaken out of the pyx.
source: sanctamissa.org/en/resources/books-1962/rituale-romanum/21-the-sacrament-of-the-holy-eucharist-communion-of-the-sick.html
 
FrDavid96 said:
Here’s some interesting information to put things into perspective and compare where-we-once-were to where-we-are-today. Here are the rubrics for taking Holy Communion to the sick as they were printed in 1964. Now, I want to caution people that I seriously doubt that all these rubrics were actually being followed on a day-by-day basis. And perhaps it’s a good thing that the Church has changed the rubrics so that they no longer express things that were not happening anyway. Nevertheless, it’s an interesting read:
  1. As the pastor proceeds to take communion to one who is sick, he will by ringing the church bells, assemble some of his parishioners, either the Confraternity of the Blessed Sacrament (where this organization is in existence) or some other pious faithful, so that they can accompany the holy Eucharist carrying candles or torches, as well as the umbella or canopy if such is available. He will have given notice beforehand that the sickroom be in order, and that there be prepared therein a table covered with clean linen on which the most holy sacrament can be placed with propriety.
    That is a good read Padre!!! Thanks for booting that up!!!:cool:
  2. The following articles should be in readiness in the sickroom: lighted candles, two vessels–one containing water, the other wine, a linen cloth to be placed under the chin of the communicant, and whatever else will fittingly enhance the room, depending on the peoples’ circumstances.
  3. As soon as the escort for the Blessed Sacrament is assembled the priest vests in surplice and stole, or even in white cope; and likewise vested in surplice are the acolytes or clerics or priests (if they customarily assist) who will accompany him. Then with due reverence he takes some particles (only one, if he is to travel by a long or difficult route) from the ciborium and puts them in a pyx or small receptacle which he closes firmly and covers with a silk veil. Having received the humeral veil over his shoulders, he now takes in both hands the receptacle with the sacrament, and proceeds on the way, walking bareheaded below the umbella or canopy.
  4. At the head of the procession there should always be an acolyte or other server who carries the lantern (the sacrament may not be carried thus at night, except in case of necessity). Following next are two clerics or their substitutes, one of whom carries the holy water with aspersory, the burse containing the corporal to be used in covering the table upon which the Blessed Sacrament will be placed in the sickroom, and the linen purificator for wiping the priest’s fingers; the other carries the Ritual and the little bell which he rings continually. Then follow the torchbearers; and lastly the priest, holding the sacrament elevated before his breast and reciting the “Miserere” or other psalms and canticles. Should the journey be long or difficult, and even perhaps made on horseback, it will be necessary that the receptacle with the sacrament be securely encased in a beautifully made burse, and this fastened to the neck and secured at the breast, so as to prevent the sacrament from falling or being shaken out of the pyx.
source: sanctamissa.org/en/resources/books-1962/rituale-romanum/21-the-sacrament-of-the-holy-eucharist-communion-of-the-sick.html
Click to expand...
 
😊:blush:Lol!!! Sorry! I wanted to comment on the fathers post…which I did…somehow it wound up in the middle!!! Sorry Fr!!! Using my iPad !!! It got away from me I guess…move along folk nothing to see here…but a dumb embarrassed Texan …
 
FrDavid96 said:
Here’s some interesting information to put things into perspective and compare where-we-once-were to where-we-are-today. Here are the rubrics for taking Holy Communion to the sick as they were printed in 1964. Now, I want to caution people that I seriously doubt that all these rubrics were actually being followed on a day-by-day basis. And perhaps it’s a good thing that the Church has changed the rubrics so that they no longer express things that were not happening anyway. Nevertheless, it’s an interesting read:
  1. As the pastor proceeds to take communion to one who is sick, he will by ringing the church bells, assemble some of his parishioners, either the Confraternity of the Blessed Sacrament (where this organization is in existence) or some other pious faithful, so that they can accompany the holy Eucharist carrying candles or torches, as well as the umbella or canopy if such is available. He will have given notice beforehand that the sickroom be in order, and that there be prepared therein a table covered with clean linen on which the most holy sacrament can be placed with propriety.
  2. The following articles should be in readiness in the sickroom: lighted candles, two vessels–one containing water, the other wine, a linen cloth to be placed under the chin of the communicant, and whatever else will fittingly enhance the room, depending on the peoples’ circumstances.
  3. As soon as the escort for the Blessed Sacrament is assembled the priest vests in surplice and stole, or even in white cope; and likewise vested in surplice are the acolytes or clerics or priests (if they customarily assist) who will accompany him. Then with due reverence he takes some particles (only one, if he is to travel by a long or difficult route) from the ciborium and puts them in a pyx or small receptacle which he closes firmly and covers with a silk veil. Having received the humeral veil over his shoulders, he now takes in both hands the receptacle with the sacrament, and proceeds on the way, walking bareheaded below the umbella or canopy.
  4. At the head of the procession there should always be an acolyte or other server who carries the lantern (the sacrament may not be carried thus at night, except in case of necessity). Following next are two clerics or their substitutes, one of whom carries the holy water with aspersory, the burse containing the corporal to be used in covering the table upon which the Blessed Sacrament will be placed in the sickroom, and the linen purificator for wiping the priest’s fingers; the other carries the Ritual and the little bell which he rings continually. Then follow the torchbearers; and lastly the priest, holding the sacrament elevated before his breast and reciting the “Miserere” or other psalms and canticles. Should the journey be long or difficult, and even perhaps made on horseback, it will be necessary that the receptacle with the sacrament be securely encased in a beautifully made burse, and this fastened to the neck and secured at the breast, so as to prevent the sacrament from falling or being shaken out of the pyx.
source: sanctamissa.org/en/resources/books-1962/rituale-romanum/21-the-sacrament-of-the-holy-eucharist-communion-of-the-sick.html
Click to expand...
yes, very interesting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top