To kneel or not to kneel.. that is the question

[carol_marie]

I am starting my RCIA classes next week and I have been attending the same Catholic church for awhile now. Being new to the mass, I have to copy the people in the pews in front of me to know when to stand, sit, kneel etc. At this church we always kneel before everyone goes up for communion and afterwards until the Priest puts it all away. I was talking to my sister in law and she said, "Wow… that’s really old fashioned - I haven’t been to a kneeling Catholic church in years. (She’s lives in Minnesota - maybe they do it differently there?) Today due to time limitations, I attended a different Catholic church in my town. They had the kneelers and everyone knelt before communion but afterwards it seemed like only about 1/2 of the congregation knelt - the rest were seated. So my question… is the kneeling part optional? I’d really like to know because I’m a marathon runner and kneeling for a long time hurts but I’m willing to do it if it’s a requirement.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Next time you talk with your SIL tell her changes are a coming in the form of the GIRM. It along with another document a few months ago clearly specify when we will kneel. It is my understanding everything is specified until the Lamb of God. After that until after Communion it is up to the Bishop and after Communion it is up to you . You may stand, sit or kneel upon returning from Holy communion.

 

[mkw]

Speaking only of my parish. We kneel during the consecration, raise to receive, then kneel again when we return to our pews. Its only AFTER father has taken his seat after communion that we all take our seats.

A miracle is happening on the alter, our Lord is present Body-Blood-Soul-Devinity. He deserves our total respect, speaking only for me, I show this be kneeling before Him.

 

[carol_marie]

Br. Rich SFO:

. It is my understanding everything is specified until the Lamb of God.

What does “until the lamb on God” mean?

 

[Cherub]

carol marie:

What does “until the lamb on God” mean?

The part that is “Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world. Have mercy on us. Have mercy on us…” etc…

 

[asquared]

if you attend a “half n half” parish, it may be that there are a lot of visitors from the northeast or midwest where they have stopped kneeling, or that they seldom attend Mass, or are new like you, and don’t know what to do, or they are non-Catholic and feel it would be dishonest to kneel in acknowledgement of an event they do not believe in, or they have arthritis and cannot kneel. It is not old-fashioned, merely correct and obedient to very clear teaching to kneel from the end of the Holy Holy Holy to after the great Amen (after the Our Father), and to kneel again during the fraction of the bread and the priest’s communion.

 

[SHJ-BVM]

asquared:

if you attend a “half n half” parish, it may be that there are a lot of visitors from the northeast…where they have stopped kneeling, or that they seldom attend Mass… It is not old-fashioned, merely correct and obedient to very clear teaching to kneel from the end of the Holy Holy Holy to after the great Amen (after the Our Father), and to kneel again during the fraction of the bread and the priest’s communion.

Asquared…I am almost as far northeast as you can get…I also live on the border of two differentiating Diocese’…Both parishes kneel after the Holy, Holy, Holy to the Great Amen…BUT…VT remains standing after the Agnus Dei, whereas NH kneels after it…the new RS has left this decision up to the local bishops…in BOTH states, we all kneel after reception of communion until the priest has cleansed the vessels and is seated…

Had to clear this up for us Nor’easterner’s

 

[Annunciata]

SHJ-BVM:

Asquared…I am almost as far northeast as you can get…I also live on the border of two differentiating Diocese’…Both parishes kneel after the Holy, Holy, Holy to the Great Amen…BUT…VT remains standing after the Agnus Dei, whereas NH kneels after it…the new RS has left this decision up to the local bishops…in BOTH states, we all kneel after reception of communion until the priest has cleansed the vessels and is seated…

Had to clear this up for us Nor’easterner’s

Hi Vermont,
Here is MA we do the same as NH.
Annunciata

 

[seeker63]

If we were* really* serious we’d probably be prostrate on our faces.

 

[carol_marie]

I should have added this to my original question… when the mass was over & the last hymn sung there was applause for the praise team that sang/played music in the front. Is that acceptable? I’ve never heard such a thing in a Catholic church. Opinions?

 

[Veronica_Anne]

mkw:

Speaking only of my parish. We kneel during the consecration, raise to receive, then kneel again when we return to our pews. Its only AFTER father has taken his seat after communion that we all take our seats.

A miracle is happening on the alter, our Lord is present Body-Blood-Soul-Devinity. He deserves our total respect, speaking only for me, I show this be kneeling before Him.

Welcome home!

Every parish in our diocese at which I’ve celebrated the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass does the kneeling like mkw described.

I hear you say that kneeling hurts for you. In that case, you have two choices.

1. Sit when others are kneeling. This is perfectly fine and permitted. Nobody’s gonna say anything about that to you. Sometimes, it hurts for me to kneel, too.
2. What I have done when my knees are particularly ache-ey is to sit with my kiester balanced on the edge of the pew with my knees hanging downward and my folded hands or forearm balancing me on the back of the pew before mine.

If I were to be instructed to stand during the consecration I’d really want to kneel, instead.

I consider it to be WAY too casual to come back from receiving Communion and sit without at least kneeling for a minute or two. Unless, of course, the person’s body won’t allow that due to a physical constraint such as the one that you’ve mentioned.

Hope this helps?


Your sister in Christ,
Veronica (a cradle Catholic since the mid-50’s who grew up with the Mass in Latin, the priest’s back to the congregation, and the choir in the loft behind the congregation singing all the responses that after Vatican II we say ourselves) Anne

P.S. It’s important to know that even though some of the rubrics are different post-Vatican II, it’s the SAME Mass that we celebrate today.

 

[Veronica_Anne]

seeker63:

If we were* really* serious we’d probably be prostrate on our faces.

 

[SeekerJen]

mkw:

Speaking only of my parish. We kneel during the consecration, raise to receive, then kneel again when we return to our pews. Its only AFTER father has taken his seat after communion that we all take our seats.

A miracle is happening on the alter, our Lord is present Body-Blood-Soul-Devinity. He deserves our total respect, speaking only for me, I show this be kneeling before Him.

Yup. We kneel immediately after singing the Sanctus, stand up again for the Lord’s Prayer and the Agnus Dei, kneel until it’s time to get up and receive the Eucharist, and then kneel again until the Eucharist is in the tabernacle and the door is closed. At that point all the ushers who are standing in front genuflect and then walk their posts by the doors- handy if you can’t see the tabernacle from where you’re kneeling, the ushers provide the “all clear” signal to go ahead and sit down.

Personal note: I can’t stand attending Mass at parishes that don’t have kneelers.

 

[Veronica_Anne]

carol marie:

I should have added this to my original question… when the mass was over & the last hymn sung there was applause for the praise team that sang/played music in the front. Is that acceptable? I’ve never heard such a thing in a Catholic church. Opinions?

I’m SO GLAD that you brought this up, Carol Marie.

Beginning in the early 1980’s, depending on which diocese you live in people will choose to applaud the people who provide the music ministry.

At first, I would also applaud the musicians. After all, they had done a great job – or even if they hadn’t – in singing and leading us all in singing.

But after the first few years of applauding, I started to feel like we were applauding their skills as though they had performed!

Like at a concert. :clapping: :bowdown:

NOT good! :tsktsk: :nope:

A few months ago, our bishop had our priests make an announcement one Sunday before Mass… and the bishop had put a notice in the bulletins of every parish with his instructions, very gently yet definitely put, that musicians are performing their ministry just as the lectors, ushers, and altar servers are performing their ministry.

When was the last time that you heard a lay lector read the Old Testament or one of the Epistles get applause? Huh?

Right. Not.

Hey… the lector read the reading really well! Let’s applaud them TOO!! (I’m saying this with my tongue in my cheek. I really do NOT want that to start happening, too!)

Also, we don’t applaud the catechists who perform their ministry, other than a show of support kind of applause on Catechetical Sunday each year. You can be sure and certain that kids in the catechism classes don’t applaud their catechist after each class. Nor should they. The catechist is performing their ministry. Just like all others who perform their ministry.

We have now been officially instructed by our bishop to NOT applaud at the end of Mass. And if anybody wants to let the musicians know that they appreciate the musicians performing their ministry that the way we are to do that is to walk up to them personally after Mass and tell them so.

I was relieved!!

However, unfortunately, apparently there have been some people who have visited our parish from other parishes in our diocese who may not yet be obeying our bishop. Or maybe they haven’t been to Mass since that instruction from our bishop came down in the bulletins. Or maybe they’re visitors from another diocese.

So, we’re losing ground on keeping up the good practice of NOT applauding the music ministers.

Put another way… there’s a difference between walking up to someone to tell them that you appreciate their service and another to lead them to temptation to the sin of Pride.

See how seductive the Evil One is?

(“hey… go ahead… applaud the music ministers… they deserve to know they’re great and did great and their ministry os SO MUCH better than the other poor schlups who do their ministries!” ~~ signed, Lucifer)

 

[Exalt]

carol marie:

I should have added this to my original question… when the mass was over & the last hymn sung there was applause for the praise team that sang/played music in the front. Is that acceptable? I’ve never heard such a thing in a Catholic church. Opinions?

#1: The General Instruction nor the Sacramentary says what happens after mass is ended.

#2: Clapping during mass is not prohibited anyway.

In my opinion, there are plenty of things that people would say “Oh, we should not do that in a Catholic Church” that are perfectly acceptable ways of worship.

 

[baltobetsy]

carol marie:

I should have added this to my original question… when the mass was over & the last hymn sung there was applause for the praise team that sang/played music in the front. Is that acceptable? I’ve never heard such a thing in a Catholic church. Opinions?

In an ideal world, the musicians should be doing their job purely for the glory of God and would be offended at the applause. In practice, many Catholics feel the need to show support and appreciation to the people who do the music, especially if they are young, and the musicians receive the applause gratefully.

Personally, I think it’s tacky to applaud. It also disturbs those attempting to pray after Mass. But I don’t think God finds it offensive that His children offer each other friendly support.

Betsy

 

[CARose]

seeker63:

If we were* really* serious we’d probably be prostrate on our faces.

I’m so happy to hear someone else say it. I have found myself wishing such a thing were even remotely permissible, as I’ve felt drawn to this, and yet I am completely unable to consider making a spectcle of myself for fear of appearing interested in drawing attention to myself.

When I was at the Vatican (for the beautification of Mother Theresa, and both before and after for a period of time), I kept wishing I could bring myself to prostrate myself, and yet I didn’t want to be inappropriate.

I guess I’m a little weird in my desires, but not weird enough to want to make a spectacle of myself that might bring dishonor on my affection for Christ.

CARose

 

[Greg_McPherran]

Would kneeling or prostration be done out of joy, love, and reverence of free will (as opposed to fear of punishment)?

Greg

 

[mayra_hart]

i personally don’t kneel. is not easy with a three year son. so i sit an i bow as respect. i know god understand. bless you all

 

[deogratias]

We have now been officially instructed by our bishop to NOT applaud at the end of Mass. And if anybody wants to let the musicians know that they appreciate the musicians performing their ministry that the way we are to do that is to walk up to them personally after Mass and tell them so.

Good for him. I have even heard people applaud the homily on occasion. Same logic applies.