To Kneel or Not to Kneel

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That is the question.

Here in the Diocese of Raleigh, the Bishop has requested that we remain standing during the time that people are receiving communion.

We do not kneel after the Agnus Dei, and we sit down again only when the priest is seated after the distribution of communion is complete.

This is relatively new in this diocese, and I have never seen anything like it in the many other dioceses that my travels have taken me to over the past few decades.

Is this practice completely off the wall, or is our Bishop just ahead of the curve as the Church moves back toward some ancient practice?

What does the Vatican want in this regard?
 
That is the question.

Here in the Diocese of Raleigh, the Bishop has requested that we remain standing during the time that people are receiving communion.

We do not kneel after the Agnus Dei, and we sit down again only when the priest is seated after the distribution of communion is complete.

This is relatively new in this diocese, and I have never seen anything like it in the many other dioceses that my travels have taken me to over the past few decades.

Is this practice completely off the wall, or is our Bishop just ahead of the curve as the Church moves back toward some ancient practice?

What does the Vatican want in this regard?

The following will answer your question.

adoremus.org/Kneeling-after-Communion.html
 
It’s the same in our diocese. But you’re welcome to kneel if you wish.
 
That is the question.

Here in the Diocese of Raleigh, the Bishop has requested that we remain standing during the time that people are receiving communion.

We do not kneel after the Agnus Dei, and we sit down again only when the priest is seated after the distribution of communion is complete.

This is relatively new in this diocese, and I have never seen anything like it in the many other dioceses that my travels have taken me to over the past few decades.

Is this practice completely off the wall, or is our Bishop just ahead of the curve as the Church moves back toward some ancient practice?

What does the Vatican want in this regard?
There are a lot of theories about the practice which is spreading. One it is said to be more in line with what our Eastern Rite friends do, two that kneeling is a pentitential position not a joyful one, and thus should be avoided. three that standing shows that we approach the Eucharist in unity as a people, fourth, that since we are a resurrection people standing is the preferred posture to demonstrate that.resurrectionist belief. and fifth a wild one, that since Christ is physically present in the community, we become Christ and therefore there is no need to kneel to Christ because in actuality we are Christ:thumbsup:

My own personal opinion is that has it come about with the so called Christology from below form of theology that exalts and stresses Christs humanity rather then his divinity. Since Christ was a man, we as men, should approach him as a man, see him as a man and react to him as a fellow man, not our Lord and Savior,not as a King and not as God. We should see him exclusively in each other. not as some disembodied spirit. Standing for worship as well as receiving Holy Communion both reflect that idea.
 
Sit, stand, kneel, bow, genuflect…

You would think that these actions, words even, actually hurt somebody!

It was easy in the past, and the GIRM makes it easy now.

Stand when you are supposed to…

Sit when you are allowed to…

Kneel after the Sanctus, kneel at the Agnus Dei, kneel at your seat after receiving the Body and Blood of Christ…

Bow to the altar and crucifix…

Genuflect at first entrance to the altar before seating and ALWAYS genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament reserved in the Tabernacle or Monstrance…

In addition, bow at the mention of the Holy Name of Jesus during the Gloria and when we recite “by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.”

If any of these rubrics hurt you physically, do them in your heart, after all, it’s the HEART of a person that causes him to show reverence and adoration by physical (sacramental) acts - and believe it or not, repetition of those physical acts may cause a persons HEART to begin to change toward the Lord…

If any of these rubrics offend you, or you are offended when others around you who in obedience worship Our Lord in the manner prescribed by Holy Mother Church…

Then I, and the millions of Catholics who practice these arcane and ancient acts humbly ask your pardon.

Dominus Vobiscum.
 
Isnt that important to kneel- we are only approaching our Lord and God who is physicaly present in the Eucharist. Whats special about that?
 
I guess to some (many in the US dioceses) nothing at all!

But there is a remnant…
 
That is the question.

Here in the Diocese of Raleigh, the Bishop has requested that we remain standing during the time that people are receiving communion.

We do not kneel after the Agnus Dei, and we sit down again only when the priest is seated after the distribution of communion is complete.

This is relatively new in this diocese, and I have never seen anything like it in the many other dioceses that my travels have taken me to over the past few decades.

Is this practice completely off the wall, or is our Bishop just ahead of the curve as the Church moves back toward some ancient practice?

What does the Vatican want in this regard?
Your Bishop is slightly incorrect. He does have the authority and you should follow his direction and stand after the Lamb of God. Do not kneel back down. (personally this does make some sense to me) However Rome has made it VERY clear that upon returning to your seat AFTER you have received Holy Communion you may stand, sit or kneel as you wish. It is totally up to you. Rome has said that no one has any authority to dictate your posture during the time after you receive until after the time of reflection after Communion. So if upon returning from Holy Communion you may kneel if you choose.
 
The 2002 General Instruction on the Roman Missal provides in paragraph 43 for the various postures of the people during the Mass. This universal liturgical law states that “the people should stand … from the prayer over the gifts to the end of the Mass, except at the places indicated later in this paragraph.” The indicated places are the Consecration, “when they kneel,” andduring the period of reflection after Communion, when they may “kneel, stand or sit” (Congregation for Divine Worship, Notitiae 10, p.407).

With respect to the proper posture during the liturgy of Communion, the GIRM in No. 43 specifies some norms approved by the U.S. bishops. One norm says the faithful should “kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.” A few bishops have determined that the faithful should stand at this moment, and this practice is the norm within those dioceses.

Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, responded to the question on June 5, 2003 (Prot. N. 855/03/L):

“Responsum: ‘Negative, et ad mensum’ [No, for this reason]. The mens [reasoning] is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.”

Having received this response, the BCL Newsletter commented: “In the implementation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, therefore, posture should not be regulated so rigidly as to forbid individual communicants from kneeling or sitting when returning from having received Holy Communion” (p. 26).

July 2003 BCL Newsletter…

Clarification on Posture of the Faithful Following Individual Reception of Holy Communion
During recent months, the Secretariat for the Liturgy has received numerous inquiries concerning the proper posture of the faithful after each communicant has individually received Holy Communion at Mass.

Many Bishops have directed that the appropriate posture of the faithful during the distribution of Holy Communion is to stand. They have based this on the text of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM), no. 431 which states that the people stand until the period of sacred silence following the reception of Holy Communion has begun. But when does this period of sacred silence begin? GIRM, no. 86 notes that “the singing [of the communion song] is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.” The period of sacred silence would seem to begin, therefore, once all have received Holy Communion; hence, the appropriate posture of the faithful during the distribution of Holy Communion is standing.

However, because of the widespread and longstanding practice of individuals returning to their places to kneel or sit in private prayer after having individually received Holy Communion, this provision has caused controversy in many dioceses.

In an effort to clarify the situation, Cardinal Francis George, O.M.I., Chairman of the Committee on the Liturgy, submitted a dubium concerning this matter to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments on May 26, 2003. On June 5, 2003, Cardinal George received the following response (Prot. n. 855/03/L) from Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments:

Dubium: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after having individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?

Responsum:* Negative, et ad mentem.* The mens is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

In the implementation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, therefore, posture should not be regulated so rigidly as to forbid individual communicants from kneeling or sitting when returning from having received Holy Communion.
 
…Here in the Diocese of Raleigh, the Bishop has requested that we remain standing during the time that people are receiving communion.

We do not kneel after the Agnus Dei, and we sit down again only when the priest is seated after the distribution of communion is complete.

Is this practice completely off the wall, or is our Bishop just ahead of the curve as the Church moves back toward some ancient practice?

What does the Vatican want in this regard?
The standing for Communion is consistent with the 2002 GIRM. I see it as a good decision by the bishop which will reduce confusion and promote unity.

From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“42. … A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.”

“43. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fraters (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below. They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.
In the dioceses of the United States of America, … The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise."

During Communion is not a time of “sacred silence after Communion”. Rather:
“86. While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun. Its purpose is to express the communicants’ union in spirit by means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.”

So the bishop is promoting the common posture of standing which is consistent with the GIRM. It should encourage the positive things described above. It is simplier than some kneeling into the back of others sittting. It avoids having people wondering when they should stand to go to Communion.
 
My guess is that the “norms” dictated by “some” bishops will need to be posted on the walls of the church.

If we continue to have each diocesan ordinary decide liturgical norms within his diocese, how will that promote unity within "One holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church?

This is an issue that has confused me for years. As I travel in business and attend masses throughout the US, I wonder whether “Universal” describes us at all.

Let us not go the route of the Prodestant Evangelicals, whose church service “liturgy” differs in everyway in every denomination (read: division).
 
My guess is that the “norms” dictated by “some” bishops will need to be posted on the walls of the church.

If we continue to have each diocesan ordinary decide liturgical norms within his diocese, how will that promote unity within "One holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church?

This is an issue that has confused me for years. As I travel in business and attend masses throughout the US, I wonder whether “Universal” describes us at all.

Let us not go the route of the Prodestant Evangelicals, whose church service “liturgy” differs in everyway in every denomination (read: division).
Welcome to the modern Church. Customize you faith. Whatever combination of doctrines and traditions work for you. Feel free to add any non-Catholic doctrines and traditions you like- they will be fully compatible with your Catholic faith as long as you choose to make them so.

Universal take a hike- welcome Individualism!
 
Sit, stand, kneel, bow, genuflect…

You would think that these actions, words even, actually hurt somebody!

It was easy in the past, and the GIRM makes it easy now.

Stand when you are supposed to…

Sit when you are allowed to…

Kneel after the Sanctus, kneel at the Agnus Dei, kneel at your seat after receiving the Body and Blood of Christ…

Bow to the altar and crucifix…

Genuflect at first entrance to the altar before seating and ALWAYS genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament reserved in the Tabernacle or Monstrance…

In addition, bow at the mention of the Holy Name of Jesus during the Gloria and when we recite “by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.”

If any of these rubrics hurt you physically, do them in your heart, after all, it’s the HEART of a person that causes him to show reverence and adoration by physical (sacramental) acts - and believe it or not, repetition of those physical acts may cause a persons HEART to begin to change toward the Lord…

If any of these rubrics offend you, or you are offended when others around you who in obedience worship Our Lord in the manner prescribed by Holy Mother Church…

Then I, and the millions of Catholics who practice these arcane and ancient acts humbly ask your pardon.

Dominus Vobiscum.
A few quick corrections.

As some else mentioned, it is up to the local ordinary on which posture (standing or kneeling) we assume during the Agnus Dei in the USA. It is our choice (stand or kneel) on the posture we assume after we receive Communion.

Where does the Church tell us to bow to the crucifix as we are instructed to in the case of the altar?

While we do genuflect before the tabernacle that holds the reposed Blessed Sacrament, we are to kneel on both knees before the exposed Blessed Sacrament, in the case of exposition in the monstrance.

We are to bow anytime the name of Jesus is mentioned during the Mass, and not only during the credo.
 
A few quick corrections.
… While we do genuflect before the tabernacle that holds the reposed Blessed Sacrament, we are to kneel on both knees before the exposed Blessed Sacrament, in the case of exposition in the monstrance.
No, the instructions in the liturgical books are to genuflect in the normal way before the Blessed Sacrament in the monstrance.

“84. A single genuflection is made in the presence of the blessed sacrament, whether reserved in the tabernacle or exposed for public adoration.”
(Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass, published by E.J. Dwyer, Sydney, 1975, ISBN 0-85574-401-4, page 65).

“1103 Genuflection in the presence of the blessed sacrament exposed for public adoration is on one knee.”
(Ceremonial of Bishops, Liturgical Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1818-9, page 297.)
 
Id rather do it the Traditional way, and people who do so are not being disobedient.
 
If we continue to have each diocesan ordinary decide liturgical norms within his diocese, how will that promote unity within "One holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church?.
My thoughts exactly…:rolleyes:

:heart:Blyss
 
My guess is that the “norms” dictated by “some” bishops will need to be posted on the walls of the church.

If we continue to have each diocesan ordinary decide liturgical norms within his diocese, how will that promote unity within "One holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church?

This is an issue that has confused me for years. As I travel in business and attend masses throughout the US, I wonder whether “Universal” describes us at all.

Let us not go the route of the Prodestant Evangelicals, whose church service “liturgy” differs in everyway in every denomination (read: division).
Ah ha, the light bulb comes on!!👍 I’m glad that someone else besides me saw the trend. It is actually deeper than that my friend, part of the whole thrust of the reforms from Vatican II was to de-centralize the authority of the Church so it would be more along the lines of the Orthodox Churches where no one Bishop is the ultimate authority. You have to remember that re-unification with the Orthodox Churches has always been a huge concern for the Vatican, and with the Pope being in charge as he is there is no chance of that happening, since the Orthodox totally reject the position and authority of the Pope as it is, seeing him merely as the first among equals. That was part and parcel of the spirit of Vatican II. De-centralize.

Unfortunately or fortunately, however you look at it, the Holy Father basically torpedoed that idea with his proclamation in Vitae Humanae, which even today outrages many Bishops and Clergy, particularly in the west. The Pope, acting independently of the Bishops, in fact overruling his own advisory council, which the Bishops supported??:bigyikes: .

SIMPLY OUTRAGEOUS

No, the reformers didn’t want and still don’t want anything that even remotely smells like centralized authority and rubrics. they want everything handled at the local level. Make no mistake about that.
 
Sit, stand, kneel, bow, genuflect…

You would think that these actions, words even, actually hurt somebody!

It was easy in the past, and the GIRM makes it easy now.

Stand when you are supposed to…

Sit when you are allowed to…

Kneel after the Sanctus, kneel at the Agnus Dei, kneel at your seat after receiving the Body and Blood of Christ…

Bow to the altar and crucifix…

Genuflect at first entrance to the altar before seating and ALWAYS genuflect before the Blessed Sacrament reserved in the Tabernacle or Monstrance…

In addition, bow at the mention of the Holy Name of Jesus during the Gloria and when we recite “by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.”

If any of these rubrics hurt you physically, do them in your heart, after all, it’s the HEART of a person that causes him to show reverence and adoration by physical (sacramental) acts - and believe it or not, repetition of those physical acts may cause a persons HEART to begin to change toward the Lord…

If any of these rubrics offend you, or you are offended when others around you who in obedience worship Our Lord in the manner prescribed by Holy Mother Church…

Then I, and the millions of Catholics who practice these arcane and ancient acts humbly ask your pardon.

Dominus Vobiscum.
Ha! Best post I’ve read in a week or more!
Thanks, jslieberman, I needed that.

Peace all.
 
standing during communion has for a long time been the norm, dioceses in the US had an indult to allow kneeling where it was the custom, which is practically everywhere. the norm remains standing, and US bishops may revert to that practice if they wish. You may sit, stand or kneel as your pastor or bishop directs at this time. Your bishop is within his rights, although I hope proper catechesis on the reason for the change is done throughout the diocese. You are blessed with a good bishop so enjoy that blessing and thank God for him.
 
One day a few years ago at the 12:10 Mass at the Cathedral of the Incarnation in Nashville, TN, an elderly woman (is there any other type person at Daily Mass anymore?) began to talk to me about this subject and about “the old days”.

I was born in '62 but in Brooklyn so I do remember a bit of pre-V2 liturgical practices.

She told me that I should never be afraid to follow the traditions of the rubrics, devotions, sacramentals and such.

And further that when I did them I not only was blessed myself but would bless others as they would see what she called “pious acts” (I AM scared to use THAT phrase!) and be blessed themselves.

Now that my kids are mostly gone (last one left in Sept for Fordham) and we only go to Mass with them on C & E, it cracks me up to see them sit, stand, kneel, bow and genuflect!

And you know what??? I am BLESSED!
 
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