To live by faith

[Lief_Erikson]

In the modern day, Catholic faithful have the option to receive the Sacrament under both species. However, they are not obligated to drink the Precious Blood. The Catholic Church teaches that the entire body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ is fully present in the bread alone.

Truly? I thought that God was fully present in the wine too .

Therefore, by only receiving the Consecrated Host, a Catholic is not missing out on something.

Yes.

In previous times, the faithful were only allowed to receive the Consecrated Host for fear that the Precious Blood could spill to the floor during Communion. However, faithful are given this option to drink in the Mass of Paul VI.

Interesting history of this practice . I’m glad to hear the reason it was arranged this way. Knew there would be a logical one .

 

[Dempsey1919]

Truly? I thought that God was fully present in the wine too

The body, blood, soul and divinity is also totally present in the wine. Both species contain everything. There are no deficiencies in either the bread or the wine.

The reason I used the word “alone” in my previous statement was to illustrate that the wine does not add anything to the bread, just as the bread does not add anything to the wine. Neither the bread nor the wine lack anything for they are both fully and completely transformed into the body, blood, soul and divinity of the Redeemer. For this reason, it does not matter if a communicant does not receive the wine. It also does not matter if the communicant chooses to receive the wine without receiving the host, although I don’t believe this has ever been done. The important thing is that they receive the Eucharist; the species they choose isn’t as important because both are equally valid, true, and complete.

It would be wrong to think that the bread alone is the body, and that the wine alone is the blood. Both the bread and the wine contain the whole of Christ. The bread does not lack anything, and the wine does not lack anything.

By not having the option to receive the wine, the Church was not depriving the faithful of anything because the whole of Christ is equally present in both forms. They are exactly the same, with the only difference being that they are different species. When receiving the Host, the communicant is receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ in its entirey. And when a communicant receives the wine, they receive the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ in its entirety. They are not deprived of anything because they didn’t receive the wine.

Both forms are equally complete, true, and valid. Both forms individually contain the fullness of Christ.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Okay, great. That’s what I’d originally thought . I’m still a pretty new Catholic though.

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

This is actually a pretty quick answer. First, we’re not always denied the cup, and some Eastern Catholics always recieve by intinction. In the Roman Rite it is up to the priest whether or not to offer the cup, but even if we only recieve the host we recieve all of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. You cannot seperate His Body and Blood because He is alive, and living things do not have seperate bodies and blood.

In short, it would be incorrect to say the bread is the body and the wine is the blood. Each contains the Fullness of Christ, because we cannot seperate Him into pieces; He is one living body.

There are three marks of Mortal Sin: 1) It is a serious offense 2) That is committed of your own free will 3) that you know is a sin before you committ it.

…You know, now that I look at that, I worded that badly.

ABC is a sin when used to prevent the birth of a child. Sometimes it is used medicinally and the infertility is an unfortunate side effect. If using the pill to treat a condition (unlikely, since there is very little the pill actually treats or cures) then the fact that it causes sterilization isn’t your fault and does not constitute a sin.

It is a sin to use when preventing conception for several reasons:

We believe that the sexual act is a foreshadowing of the Blessed Trinity, wherien the unbridled love of the Father and Son pour forth to produce the Holy Spirit. Each having given ALL of Himself to the other, witholding nothing, produces a living love, contianing all of that poured out by the others. Likewise a man and a woman cannot give all of themselves if they are withholding their fertility from one another and delibereratly attempting to prevent the natural blessing of the act. Contracepted sex is mocking the Trinitarian God.

It also betrays a lack of trust in God’s plan, in that men and women decide for themselves when they are willing to assist Him in the creation of Life. Catholics view salvation and creation in a more fluid manner than Protestants. We believe God acts through men and women all the time, and in contracepting you are upsetting this gift that God has given us in playing our part in Creation.

The pill can also act as an abortificent, it can cause an abortion, so Catholics are forbidden from using it.

This is the primary purpose of sex. yes. Secondary is the creation of a bond and strengthening of said bond between man and wife. It is said that every time a husband and wife have sex they are renewing their wedding vows. It is also said that sex is a prayer, and a baby is an answer to that prayer.

Hi Rawb,

I am deeply encouraged by this answer.

I was pleased with your assertion:

“We believe that the sexual act is a foreshadowing of the Blessed Trinity, wherien the unbridled love of the Father and Son pour forth to produce the Holy Spirit. Each having given ALL of Himself to the other, witholding nothing, produces a living love, contianing all of that poured out by the others. Likewise a man and a woman cannot give all of themselves if they are withholding their fertility from one another and delibereratly attempting to prevent the natural blessing of the act. Contracepted sex is mocking the Trinitarian God.”

I have gained much from this post. Thank you.

God bless, Craig

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

The faithful in the Catholic Church, for several centuries I believe, were not offered the wine in the Eucharist. However, in modern times, the wine is available to almost all Catholics. I take both the wine and bread regularly at Mass.

I don’t know why the Church didn’t offer the wine, and still doesn’t, in various times and places. I will point out, though, that from a theological perspective, it’s not very important.

You see, we believe the fullness of Christ is in the wine and the bread. If we already partaken of Christ in the bread, there’s no part of Him in the wine that we lack, because his fullness is in the bread. Similarly, if we took the wine but didn’t take the bread, we would still be partaking of the fullness of Christ. It’s not like half of Him is in the wine and half in the bread . His all is present in each.

Hi Lief,

Yes, this was a satisfying answer.

I can understand your position.

Cheers, God bless Craig

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

Craig Kennedy;4143645:

Hi littleone,

I am challenged by your strong self denial in order to follow Christ more nearly and more dearly.

Why would you be challenged may I ask?

Hi Craig I don’t see any strong self denial, I only see the sinfulness of myself, each time I deny I see deeper into my wrong doing as next to Jesus asking us to “do likewise what He has done”, or again “take up our cross and follow Jesus”. These two points of life are models of change. If I am to have any ability to help others it has to be through Jesus filling me and this could not happen unless I change.
Love in this world is NEVER pure therefore for me to have “love” I must change. This is the very reason why Jesus asked the young man “Why do you call me Good master, only our Father in heaven is good”.

Is asceticism enjoined on the Catholic faithful as a way of life and as a mark of spirituality?

I had to look up the meaning of the word you used but realize it means the same as I use, self denial.
If you read the lives of the saints you would see that the center of their life was to deny so as to allow the flow of God’s love to enter at will. i don’t say this happens to me or do i try to be any person different. I only know that Love is all and I wish to love with a love I cannot have unless God so gives it to me.
Nothing else is worth living for.
I only know God’s Love is “simple” so “yes” we as Catholics are called to deny the flesh, as are all Christians, but we must remember that to one a large faith is given to another a little, it is not we who are to be glorified but our Father in Heaven, after all we are only the servants.

You may ask me other questions if you wish, I do not have much written ability so I hope you understand.

Godbless

Hi littleone,

You ask me why I would be challenged by your example of self denial.

I think you must remember the context in which I am writing. I am a Protestant but, as I have explained previously, I have a deep respect for Catholics who practise and live out their faith. My words are conveyed as a compliment.

My Protestant background has emphasised Salvation by faith alone in Christ’s redeeming sacrifice. Good works, in this understanding, flow out of a completed redemption.

I sense in your post you believe in both FAITH and WORKS in order to obtain salvation. Is this true? Is this your position?

Can you please explain for me the official Catholic position on FAITH and WORKS as it impinges, importantly, on spirituality which is what this thread is all about. I am trying to learn and grow in my love and appreciation for God and this thread - and the solid posts made - is helping me to do this.

Blessings in Christ’s name, Craig

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

In the modern day, Catholic faithful have the option to receive the Sacrament under both species. However, they are not obligated to drink the Precious Blood. The Catholic Church teaches that the entire body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ is fully present in the bread alone. Therefore, by only receiving the Consecrated Host, a Catholic is not missing out on something.

In previous times, the faithful were only allowed to receive the Consecrated Host for fear that the Precious Blood could spill to the floor during Communion. However, faithful are given this option to drink in the Mass of Paul VI.

You should bare in mind that the faithful were only prevented from drinking the Precious Blood in the Roman rite of the Catholic Church. There are other rites which celebrate different Masses and have different customs. For instance, certain Eastern Catholic Churches practice intinction. Intinction is the Eucharistic practice of partly dipping the Consecrated Host into the Consecrated Wine before giving it to the communicant. Other Eastern Catholic Churches totally immerse the Consecrated Host into the wine and distribute it to the faithful using a small spoon.

These various customs do not form part of the Sacred Deposit of faith but are liturgical traditions which may be changed if the Church deems it necessary for the good of the faithful.

Hi Dempsey 1919,

I found your answer to be thorough and it has satisfied me completely. Thank you.

I enjoyed your brief historical survey which helped put the issue in its proper perspective.

I think you are aware that I am a Protestant but who deeply respects Catholics who are genuine and who live out their faith.

When growing up I had good and friendly relationships with Catholics and played both rugby and cricket with and against Catholics.

Is there anything to prevent me, on special occasions, from going to a Catholic Church and joining in the Eucharistic celebration?
Can I partake of the consecrated host?

I am a sincere Christian who practises the faith and, by God’s grace, I have a pure and clean heart.

I look forward to your further insightful responses.

To God be the glory, Craig

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

Oh, well then yes, the Precepts apply:

The Six Precepts of the Church

To hear Mass on Sundays and holydays of obligation.
To fast and abstain on the days commanded.
To confess our sins at least once a year.
To receive the Blessed Eucharist at Easter or within the time appointed.
To contribute to the support of our Pastors.
Not to solemnize marriage at the forbidden times; nor to marry persons within the forbidden degrees of the kindred, or otherwise prohibited by the Church, nor secretly.

But other than that? It would depend on the Catholic. Probably the greatest differences is that a Catholic will have devotions to help him or her get closer to God that they will use throughout the day. A Catholic devotion is usually a specific prayer or practice, versus Protestant devotions that are usually meditation on Scripture.

Also, Catholics have more support. They view the world as being surrounded and filled with angels whom they can ask for assistance and help or prayers, and with saints in Heaven who can interceede for us, at any time of any day.

Hi Rawb,

There were some things that gnawed away at me from one of your earlier posts.

You spoke of the six precepts of the Church, viz: things that all faithful Catholics must do.

You state:

B]The Six Precepts of the Church

To hear Mass on Sundays and holydays of obligation.
To fast and abstain on the days commanded.
To confess our sins at least once a year.
To receive the Blessed Eucharist at Easter or within the time appointed.
To contribute to the support of our Pastors.
Not to solemnize marriage at the forbidden times; nor to marry persons within the forbidden degrees of the kindred, or otherwise prohibited by the Church, nor secretly.

What are the holydays of obligation? Can you list them for me ie where and when they appear on the calendar? Also WHEN are the fast days?

Furthermore, what are the forbidden times to solemnize marriage?
What are the forbidden degrees of the kindred?

May God bless you, Craig

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

This is the primary purpose of sex. yes. Secondary is the creation of a bond and strengthening of said bond between man and wife. It is said that every time a husband and wife have sex they are renewing their wedding vows. It is also said that sex is a prayer, and a baby is an answer to that prayer.

Hi Rawb,

Your quote above was a response to my question:

'Is sex - in the Catholic understanding - only for the procreation of children?"

Can you provide me with links to do more reading, study and research in this area?

God bless, Craig

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Craig:

Is there anything to prevent me, on special occasions, from going to a Catholic Church and joining in the Eucharistic celebration?
Can I partake of the consecrated host?

I am a sincere Christian who practises the faith and, by God’s grace, I have a pure and clean heart.

I look forward to your further insightful responses.

Craig, I’m afraid you cannot, at present . Partaking in our Eucharist, the flesh and blood of Jesus, is both receiving and expressing complete unity with not only Christ, but also with the “Body of Christ,” the Church.

We believe that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Timothy 3:15). Whenever people deviate from the teachings of the Church, the foundation of truth, all their deviations are separations into error and constitute partial dismemberment from the Body of Christ.

The Eucharist is complete unity with God and with God’s Body. One is not in complete unity when rejecting the authority of the ecclesiastical hierarchy He has established on Earth (which represents the hierarchy of Heaven). Therefore it is not possible to partake of it while not Catholic.

Rejecting the authority of God’s representatives on Earth and any number of the doctrines that make up His religion, Christianity, involves a partial, but very serious, separation from God and His Body. So one who chooses to separate himself from us in that way is not permitted to have the Eucharist, the perfect expression of the completeness of Christian unity. Those that reject membership in the Church reject the completeness of Christian unity of their own choice, and in so doing reject the Eucharist.

The Eucharist means complete unity with God and His Body. You cannot partake of it while denying its meaning.

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

Craig, I’m afraid you cannot, at present . Partaking in our Eucharist, the flesh and blood of Jesus, is both receiving and expressing complete unity with not only Christ, but also with the “Body of Christ,” the Church.

We believe that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Timothy 3:15). Whenever people deviate from the teachings of the Church, the foundation of truth, all their deviations are separations into error and constitute partial dismemberment from the Body of Christ.

The Eucharist is complete unity with God and with God’s Body. One is not in complete unity when rejecting the authority of the ecclesiastical hierarchy He has established on Earth (which represents the hierarchy of Heaven). Therefore it is not possible to partake of it while not Catholic.

Rejecting the authority of God’s representatives on Earth and any number of the doctrines that make up His religion, Christianity, involves a partial, but very serious, separation from God and His Body. So one who chooses to separate himself from us in that way is not permitted to have the Eucharist, the perfect expression of the completeness of Christian unity. Those that reject membership in the Church reject the completeness of Christian unity of their own choice, and in so doing reject the Eucharist.

The Eucharist means complete unity with God and His Body. You cannot partake of it while denying its meaning.

Thanks Lief,

You have been honest and up front with me and I do appreciate that.

I am a person of integrity and have always dealt with people in a candid and straightforward manner.

I have no axe to grind on this forum. I am an honest seeker after the truth and growing in my appreciation of the wonder and love of God.

I will keep asking you honest questions and continue this discussion.

By the way, do you think I am a Christian? Or, do you exclude me from the company of God’s saints because I am non-Catholic?

Cheers, May God bless you Craig

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

Hi Lief,

I notice from your profile that you have just turned Catholic.

You also said in an earlier post that you were a Protestant.

It would be most enlightening for me to hear how you became a Catholic; what were the key issues that made you convert; what was the process involved for you to become a Catholic?

I will listen to your answer with much interest.

Thanks, God bless Craig

 

[littleone]

littleone;4143716:

Hi littleone,

You ask me why I would be challenged by your example of self denial.I think you must remember the context in which I am writing. I am a Protestant but, as I have explained previously, I have a deep respect for Catholics who practise and live out their faith. My words are conveyed as a compliment.
I apologist if I seemed agitated. I don’t even like to think of you as a so called protestant, since there is no difference between you who loves Jesus and the Trinity of God and I who love Jesus and the Trinity of God, since all are called to love God as i try to and you do.

I sense in your post you believe in both **** Is this your position?

Can you please explain for me the official ****which is what this thread is all about. I am trying to learn and grow in my love and appreciation for God and this thread - and the solid posts made - is helping me to do this.

“Faith and works, encompassing LOVE"”
**B]
I have a faith in God’s whole being that has not been tested to the extent of the possibility of my life being taken, but I have “faith” that is a “GIFT” from God, it is not something I have worked for or been seen as being a person who deserves it. My “faith” in God though, drives me to want to “love” God to points of exaggeration (in a human sense) like denial of the fleshly desires.

This builds the “love” God has already chosen to give me, neither have I gained this love through my own being in any way.
The bible tells us, If I have all knowledge and yet have not “Love” then I have nothing" 1 Corinth.
Love shows it’s ways through actions,(Jesus own words right through the bible), Jesus told us to follow Him, to “do likewise what He did/does”, therefore I can have NO Love of, or for God and those who God created to His Own likeness if I see one little one who I do not assist. This is shown in Jesus words about the “good Samaritan”. NO action is finished by the person until the life is taken from that person “It is finished” (Jesus to His Father, to us,on the cross) ****

***Jesus own words were that “works without faith and love are worth nothing” (Jesus to the hypocrites, Pharisees, Sadducee leaders of the Jews).In 1 corinth 13 Paul speaks emphatically about the combination of both.
Look at the point this way though if you will. God the Father created us and our needs to help each other so as to create unity. Jesus showed us how it is done, He also showed us that without the “Spirit of God” being dominant in us or central to our works, our works are worth nothing because without the “Trinity of God” being thing of the Holy Spirit.

Our catholic church endorses the Trinity of God in this through preaching the Word of God in Jesus who showed us this way, every saint canonized did so to.

---

Hope that helps a little
Godbless.

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

Craig Kennedy;4146452:

littleone;4143716:

Hi littleone,

You ask me why I would be challenged by your example of self denial.I think you must remember the context in which I am writing. I am a Protestant but, as I have explained previously, I have a deep respect for Catholics who practise and live out their faith. My words are conveyed as a compliment.
I apologist if I seemed agitated. I don’t even like to think of you as a so called protestant, since there is no difference between you who loves Jesus and the Trinity of God and I who love Jesus and the Trinity of God, since all are called to love God as i try to and you do.

I sense in your post you believe in both **** Is this your position?

Can you please explain for me the official ****which is what this thread is all about. I am trying to learn and grow in my love and appreciation for God and this thread - and the solid posts made - is helping me to do this.

“Faith and works”
***B]*If Ihave all knowledge and yet have not “Love” then I have nothing" 1 Corinth.
Love shows it’s ways through actions,(Jesus own words right through the bible), Jesus told us to follow Him, to “do likewise what He does”, therefore I can have NO Love of, or for God and those who God created to His Own likeness if I see one little one who I do not assist. This is shown in Jesus words of the “good Samaritan”. NO action is finished by the person until the life is taken from that person “It is finished” (Jesus to His Father, to us,on the cross) ****

***Jesus own words were that “works without faith and love are worth nothing” (Jesus to the hypocrites, Pharisees, Sadducee leaders of the Jews).In 1 corinth 13 Paul speaks emphatically about the combination of both. Look at the point this way though if you will. God the Father created us and our needs to help each other so as to create unity. Jesus showed us how it is done, He also showed us that without the “Spirit of God” being dominant in us or central to our works, our works are worth nothing because without the “Trinity of God” being the center of our every action there is NO life.

Our catholic church endorses the Trinity of God in this through preaching the Word of God in Jesus who showed us this way, every saint canonized did so to.

---

Hope that helps a little
Godbless.

Hi littleone,

Yes, your post helps me a lot and I value it greatly.

You made some great points which have greatly encouraged me.

I thank you, sincerely, for your kind and gracious words where you stated:

“I don’t even like to think of you as a so called protestant, since there is no difference between you who loves Jesus and the Trinity of God and I who love Jesus and the Trinity of God, since all are called to love God as i try to and you do.”

That is absolutely true! We both believe in the Trinity of God, the eternal sonship and divinity of Jesus and the need to follow Jesus in love and obedience.

I agree, littleone! There is no difference between you and me! Praise God!

Cheers, God bless you Craig

 

[Rawb]

What are the holydays of obligation? Can you list them for me ie where and when they appear on the calendar?

January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God;
Thursday of the Sixth Week of Easter, the solemnity of the Ascension;
August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary;
November 1, the solemnity of All Saints;
December 8, the solemnity of the Immaculate Conception;
December 25, the solemnity of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Whenever January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated.

From: usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/general/obligation.shtml

Also WHEN are the fast days?

Abstinence from all meat is to be observed by all Roman Catholics 14 years old and older on Ash Wednesday and on all Fridays of Lent.

Fasting is to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday by all Roman Catholics who are 18 years of age but not yet 59.

Furthermore, what are the forbidden times to solemnize marriage?
What are the forbidden degrees of the kindred?

From the First Sunday of Advent till the First Day of Christmas, and from From Ash Wednesday till the day after Easter Sunday, Catholics cannot marry. These are penitential times, and The Sacrament of Matrimony is a joyful celebration.

If I remember right the forbidden degrees of kindred are blood relations up to the third degree, but I may be wrong. I’m pretty sure that’s right.

Can you provide me with links to do more reading, study and research in this area?

But of course!

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html (Humanae Vitae, Papal Encyclical of Pope Paul VI

theologyofthebody.net/ (Website devoted to Pope John Paul II’s series, Theology of the Body, with articles by Christopher West, who’s mission in life is to explain and present the teachings of TotB. the Article section is amazing)

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God;
Thursday of the Sixth Week of Easter, the solemnity of the Ascension;
August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary;
November 1, the solemnity of All Saints;
December 8, the solemnity of the Immaculate Conception;
December 25, the solemnity of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Whenever January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated.

From: usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/general/obligation.shtml

Abstinence from all meat is to be observed by all Roman Catholics 14 years old and older on Ash Wednesday and on all Fridays of Lent.

Fasting is to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday by all Roman Catholics who are 18 years of age but not yet 59.

From the First Sunday of Advent till the First Day of Christmas, and from From Ash Wednesday till the day after Easter Sunday, Catholics cannot marry. These are penitential times, and The Sacrament of Matrimony is a joyful celebration.

If I remember right the forbidden degrees of kindred are blood relations up to the third degree, but I may be wrong. I’m pretty sure that’s right.

But of course!

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html (Humanae Vitae, Papal Encyclical of Pope Paul VI

theologyofthebody.net/ (Website devoted to Pope John Paul II’s series, Theology of the Body, with articles by Christopher West, who’s mission in life is to explain and present the teachings of TotB. the Article section is amazing)

Thanks Rawb,

A full reply and I’m learning heaps here! Thanks!

I assure you I will be following through with the links for further study you have provided.

God bless you, Craig

 

[littleone]

January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God;
Thursday of the Sixth Week of Easter, the solemnity of the Ascension;
August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary;
November 1, the solemnity of All Saints;
December 8, the solemnity of the Immaculate Conception;
December 25, the solemnity of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Whenever January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated.

From: usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/general/obligation.shtml

Abstinence from all meat is to be observed by all Roman Catholics 14 years old and older on Ash Wednesday and on all Fridays of Lent.

Fasting is to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday by all Roman Catholics who are 18 years of age but not yet 59.

From the First Sunday of Advent till the First Day of Christmas, and from From Ash Wednesday till the day after Easter Sunday, Catholics cannot marry. These are penitential times, and The Sacrament of Matrimony is a joyful celebration.

If I remember right the forbidden degrees of kindred are blood relations up to the third degree, but I may be wrong. I’m pretty sure that’s right.

But of course!

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html (Humanae Vitae, Papal Encyclical of Pope Paul VI

theologyofthebody.net/ (Website devoted to Pope John Paul II’s series, Theology of the Body, with articles by Christopher West, who’s mission in life is to explain and present the teachings of TotB. the Article section is amazing)

Thank you thank you, very enlightening.
Godbless

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Thanks Lief,

You have been honest and up front with me and I do appreciate that.

I am a person of integrity and have always dealt with people in a candid and straightforward manner.

I have no axe to grind on this forum. I am an honest seeker after the truth and growing in my appreciation of the wonder and love of God.

I will keep asking you honest questions and continue this discussion.

Please do .

And by the way, you can come to the Catholic Mass any time you like if you’re willing to skip the Eucharist. What I did while Protestant, waiting for the RCIA process to be completed, is go to Mass and when it came time for Eucharist, I prayed that the Lord would give me His Eucharist spiritually.

This may well provide a spiritual blessing. It isn’t the same as receiving the Eucharist itself, but it’s still great . And the Masses are wonderful. You’re welcome to join us at them any time.

By the way, do you think I am a Christian? Or, do you exclude me from the company of God’s saints because I am non-Catholic?

Certainly you’re a Christian.

There will be Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews and Atheists who go to Heaven- and to Hell. I’m certainly in no position to include or exclude anyone from the company of God’s saints.

Even if you don’t become a Catholic on Earth, you will nevertheless be perfectly one with God’s Church in Heaven. People are purged of all kinds of faults in Purgatory, and I believe division from doctrines of God to be amongst them.

I also believe that one day doctrinal error amongst Christians all over the world will melt away due to the power of God’s Spirit. I believe that one day we will all be reunited and one single Church again here on Earth, as we were a thousand years ago, prior to the Orthodox Schism. I think this will take place prior to the establishment of the New Heaven and New Earth, and I look forward to and pray for coming of that day .

Craig:

Hi Lief,

I notice from your profile that you have just turned Catholic.

You also said in an earlier post that you were a Protestant.

You read that? I’m surprised you remembered or were able to dig that up. That was at least four months ago! I was confirmed Catholic on Pentecost.

You must be doing a lot of reading, here. I’m impressed.

Craig:

It would be most enlightening for me to hear how you became a Catholic; what were the key issues that made you convert; what was the process involved for you to become a Catholic?

I’d be glad to relate this . . . it just was so involved, complicated and radically life-changing that it’s somewhat hard to know what elements of it to focus on and how to make myself brief enough. In a different thread, I wrote two full length posts about just the experiential Marian side of it . Posts 13-15 of this thread (15 is just a handful of final thoughts), in case you’re interested.

That’s a very incomplete testimony I linked there, though, because it only focuses on the Marian part and none of the rest, of which there’s a large amount. I can’t make it complete without taking a LONG time. I’ll just try to be concise and give some important elements that I didn’t mention in the other thread.

 

[Craig_Kennedy]

January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God;
Thursday of the Sixth Week of Easter, the solemnity of the Ascension;
August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary;
November 1, the solemnity of All Saints;
December 8, the solemnity of the Immaculate Conception;
December 25, the solemnity of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Whenever January 1, the solemnity of Mary, Mother of God, or August 15, the solemnity of the Assumption, or November 1, the solemnity of All Saints, falls on a Saturday or on a Monday, the precept to attend Mass is abrogated.

From: usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/general/obligation.shtml

Abstinence from all meat is to be observed by all Roman Catholics 14 years old and older on Ash Wednesday and on all Fridays of Lent.

Fasting is to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday by all Roman Catholics who are 18 years of age but not yet 59.

From the First Sunday of Advent till the First Day of Christmas, and from From Ash Wednesday till the day after Easter Sunday, Catholics cannot marry. These are penitential times, and The Sacrament of Matrimony is a joyful celebration.

If I remember right the forbidden degrees of kindred are blood relations up to the third degree, but I may be wrong. I’m pretty sure that’s right.

But of course!

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html (Humanae Vitae, Papal Encyclical of Pope Paul VI

theologyofthebody.net/ (Website devoted to Pope John Paul II’s series, Theology of the Body, with articles by Christopher West, who’s mission in life is to explain and present the teachings of TotB. the Article section is amazing)

Hi Rawb,

You have made a superb job in outlining to me the holy days of obligation.

A question that ensues from this:

If a person works in a job where shift work demands that he or she must work on a holy day of obligation, how is this practical problem solved?

You will understand that the person needs the money to support his or her family, and yet the worker wants to honour God and the Church. How is this matter resolved?

Also, I have seen local Catholic parishes having services of MASS on Saturday evenings. Is this seen as an alternative to Sunday MASS? Can you please explain these circumstances?

God bless, Craig

 

[Rawb]

It’s very unlikely that someone will be unable to attend a Mass for their HDoO. I can almost guarantee that any day in which a HDoO (Including Sundays) happens, there are many Masses to accomodate varied schedules. For example, every Sunday my Parish offers a 7:00AM, 8:30AM, 10:00AM, 11:30AM, 1:00PM (Spanish), and 7:00PM Mass. Holy Days of Obligation usually have an 8:30AM, 12:15AM, and 6:00PM Mass.

Now you mention Vigil Masses. A Vigil Mass is a Mass said the day before an Obligation day, and does count for the Obligation. For example, every Saturday my parish also has a 4:00Pm and 5:30PM Mass that, if attended, satisfies your Sunday Obligation. Every HDoO also has one or two Vigil Masses.

So you see, The Church makes every accomodation. If you honestly cannot make it to any of these Masses because of work that you must do, then your obligation is dispensed.

Out of curiosity, why do you spell Mass with all caps? Also, to expand on Lief’s post, The Church considers you a Christian if you have been baptized with water in the Trinitarian Formula, barring Mormon baptisms. It’s rare that a Protestant is not a Christian, by strict definition of the Church (I didn’t want you to think you’re in the same category as Hindu’s and Muslims to a Catholic!)