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twopekinguys
Guest
Show us where the temple ordinances or garments are mentioned in the Bible. (for starters)
To Mormons: Did the gates of Hell prevail against the 'Church' when your president taught false doctrine?
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BrotherofJared
Guest
Yea. Pick on underwear and sacred “member-only” ordinances that no one would be aware of today if it wasn’t for disgruntled ex-Mormons and the internet much less in ancient times.
This is pointless. The format of this forum allows for to much scattering. There is no way to stay on topic and it seems that every line of reasoning dwindles into who’s more stupid.
As I said before, I have found my peace. I answered the OPs question, the rest of this is just senseless squabbling.
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twopekinguys
Guest
So you have no answer. Gotcha.
By the way, nobody was picking on the garments. In fact, I believe I used the correct term for them, and did not call them “underwear”. So, your characterization of what I posted is both childish, and uncalled for.
I also find your statement about “every line of reasoning dwindles into who’s more stupid” is a gross exaggeration, and misrepresentation of what has transpired in this thread.
Are you aware that the mormon church has gone public with information on the garments? If not, maybe you should avail yourself of such information before making such remarks.
We have seen many a mormon poster on here use the persecution card unnecessarily, and unfortunately, you are falling into that same pattern.
You claim a restoration, which I challenge by asking where garments are mentioned, and you want to turn it into some persecution. Sorry, just doesn’t fly.
I am glad you have found your peace. If you are satisfied with being a mormon, then so be it. I will pray for you, as I am sure many others on here will.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Well you all claim to have restored things, if you are unable to show that this is the case with your “ordinances” why should anyone bother with even looking into your church.
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iepuras
Guest
Maybe you should contact LDS church leaders and tell them they shouldn’t be publicizing information about the temple garment.
mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-updates-temple-garment-video
I think it is entirely on topic to discuss how the changes to LDS temple ceremonies could be a sign of apostasy in the LDS church. The temple ceremonies have been changed many times, most recently in 1990 and 2005. You claimed that “changing the mode of baptism” is a sign of apostasy in the Catholic Church. Well, can’t we look at the LDS temple ordinances and say the same thing? Aren’t changes in the endowment and initiatory are a sign of apostasy in the LDS church?
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iepuras
Guest
Exactly.
BOJ,
When were marriages ever performed in the Jewish temple in private?
Where is the evidence of an endowment ordinance performed in the Jewish temple or early Christian church?
Washings and anointings are performed in many faiths, so what needed to be restored exactly? Ritual washings and anointings were performed in the Jewish temple and ritual washings and anointings are performed in the ancient Christian churches. I ritually wash myself with holy water every time I enter a Catholic church. My hands were anointed with oil prior to my baptism. My head was anointed with oil at my confirmation. I was even anointed with oil by the priest as Divine Liturgy ended this past Sunday. So what did Joseph Smith need to restore exactly?
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twopekinguys
Guest
Bump for Jared.That’s not what your post said now is it.
You really need to quit moving the goal posts.
Again, following your new premise, are you saying the Apostle John (who is still walking the Earth) doesn’t have the authority to administer the Gospel?
Either he does, or he doesn’t, so answer very carefully.
IF he does, then the Gospel is intact, the Catholic Church is intact, and there is no need for a “restoration”.
IF he does not, then please provide evidence (not speculation) that would prove the Apostle John does not have authority to administer the Gospel.
I anxiously await your answer.
Is there a reason to totally ignored this post?
Still waiting for your answer.
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TexanKnight
Guest
The fact that Jared had no good answer to my three points should be all any of us need…
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SteveVH
Guest
BOJ, I have not yet participated in this thread, but just finished reading all of the posts.
I would agree that it is difficult when the topic seems to change widely and you have many people firing questions at the same time.
So would it be fair, for the moment, to focus on just one issue? I think you would agree that the loss of priesthood authority seems to be the linchpin in the Mormon claim to the purported restoration. And I think Rebecca asked a very straight-forward question in that regard.
Since the loss of priesthood authority in the original Church is all important to the Mormon claim to have restored it, would you please just focus on this one question and provide the evidence which you use to support the claim that priesthood authority was lost?
Thank you.
Steve
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TexanKnight
Guest
it is the typical response when a Mormon cannot answer questions or support contentions.
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Tarquin
Guest
Right. Darn those guys! They’re messing up everything by letting all them cats out of the bag.
Very much like every other forum, and every real-world discussion between two or more people.
Or even with oneself.
Let’s vote!
So it’s come down (“dwindled”) to this, has it? Allow a correction: Not senseless, or where senseless, it is not *all *of “the rest” and it certainly is not just “the rest.”
Those grapes were probably sour anyway.
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Tarquin
Guest
. . . three Apostles! and “obviously some who still followed Christ” - enough for a church “with its appendages”. However, you are speaking counter to Mormon doctrine, unless Mormon doctrine has changed since the last time it was explained to me - officially. Apostasy is the total extinction of effective priesthood. Can anyone even baptize? No? What is that, if not extinction of authority. If the priesthood existed, what ordinances did the holders of that priesthood perform?
But I am no Mormon Prophet. Let us hearken to the word of the Lord’s Anointed:
Despite all this, the fact is that the Mormon concept of the nature and process of apostasy is incorrect, not in harmony with the New Testament teaching on the subject.
In further refute:
The Book of Mormon doesn’t even include the word apostasy, as far as I have yet been able to find.
Mormons would do well to read the section on Apostasy in "What Every Mormon (and Non-Mormon) Should Know, by Edmond C. Gruss and Lane A. Thuet. Their analysis will dispel the misconceptions that are common among Mormon apologists.
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