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kalt
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Are you refering to “Christians” or the abbreviation Xians? If you’re refering to Xians, you’re wrong. It’s an abbreviation that was used by early Xians.
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peary1
Guest
Hey, Catholics can find ANYTHING in their Faith to celebrate about, whether it be Christ, the name of Jesus, the circumcism of Jesus, Mary, Mary’s birth, saints galore. If you look at the Calendar of the Church, there are feastdays sometimes twice or three times a day depending on what or who is being celebrated. You have to admit that the Catholic Church certainly believes in celebrations!
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KathleenGee
Guest
Yes, we celebrate…!!!
Thanks Kalt…I was reading a source earlier today…remember way long time ago they changed from another feast day…
The Immaculate Heart of Mary was celebrated traditionally on August 22, and now it moves to different days during June, I believe…August 22 is feastday fo Mary queen of heaven and earth…
Thanks Kalt…I was reading a source earlier today…remember way long time ago they changed from another feast day…
The Immaculate Heart of Mary was celebrated traditionally on August 22, and now it moves to different days during June, I believe…August 22 is feastday fo Mary queen of heaven and earth…
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Justy90
Guest
I didn’t say that we can’t celebrate things. My point was putting things into proper perspective according to whether we celebrate them or we merely recognize them. If a co-worker’s son was celebrating a birthday and you knew it and saw him with your co-worker and you told him, ‘happy birthday’. Are you recognizing it or celebrating it? That is my point.Well, there’s only something wrong with using your own reasoning if it’s wrong.
I asked if this is your own interpretation or if it’s a teaching of your church. Your interpretation is interesting, but I’m more interested in what your church actually teaches. I’m guessing that it doesn’t teach that you can’t celebrate anything but Christmas and Easter (and perhaps a few other things associtated with Christ).
I celebrate a lot of things. 4th of July. Family birthdays and anniversaries. Graduations. Thanksgiving. I really don’t do anything for President’s Day or Martin Luther King Jr. Day. I’m sure there are more, and I’m sure you don’t really want a full list.
I can’t say I celebrate Christmas and Easter in the same way. Christmas is joyful, and Easter is more somber and reflective for me.
Where did you get your idea that we shouldn’t celebrate things?
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peary1
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But spiritual celebrations and celebrations of our Faith is quite different than secular celebrations. You can’t compare the two.
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Rence
Guest
No, that’s not what agent_grey meant. A common fallacy is that Roman or Orthodox Catholics “worship” Mary, and we do NOT. We honor her as the Mother of God, not worship her. Catholics only worship God.
agent_grey (and I) took exception to the fact that Zenas said, “…as another way Catholic way to worship Mary”, which is bearing false witness.
No one likes to be told what they believe, and I’m sure you (just like agent_grey and I) are no exception.
There’s enough about us that some non-catholics don’t like, there’s no need to lie about what we believe or don’t believe
I can’t speak for other Catholics, but I personally don’t care if someone honors Mary or doesn’t. I believe everyone has the right to practice their own religion, in the way their religion teaches it.
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Rence
Guest
I think Italian Catholics celebrate every single feast day and holy holiday there is…just so they can cook and eat!
I often wondered when I was growing up if it was because of those food fests that we had to, “fast before you feast”.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics celebrate this feast on 26 December.
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kalt
Guest
You seem to be saying that it’s improper to celebrate anything about Mary. Yet you also seem to be saying that it’s OK to celebrate birthdays. I’m still not sure why you think people shouldn’t celebrate something about Mary, especially since you seem to think it’s proper to celebrate other people’s accomplishments, birthdays, etc.
It’s realy not making logical sense to me. Are you saying that we can’t celebrate anything about Mary because she’s Mary, and that it’s OK to celebrate a co-worker’s son’s birthday because he’s no Mary?
Maybe it’s a definition problem. Can you give us an idea of how you’re defining (and using) celebration? It seems to be very different from how the rest of us are using it.
Here’s a Catholic definition -
A religious ceremony. Since the Second Vatican Council the term has come to be applied especially to the Eucharist, as the Church’s principal liturgical celebration, giving the highest honor and praise to God. (Etym. Latin celebrare, to frequent, fill, celebrate.)
And here’s one from a regular dictionary -
*]To observe (a day or event) with ceremonies of respect, festivity, or rejoicing. See Synonyms at observe.
*]To perform (a religious ceremony): celebrate Mass.
*]To extol or praise: a sonnet that celebrates love.
*]To make widely known; display: “a determination on the author’s part to celebrate . . . the offenses of another” (William H. Pritchard).
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peary1
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I think Italian Catholics celebrate every single feast day and holy holiday there is…just so they can cook and eat!
BELIEVE me, you got THAT right!!
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KathleenGee
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(I think the Southern Italians especially have retained the Christian brotherhood…)
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ChosenAndCalled
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I am a Reformed Christian and we do not celebrate this day. Also, we would not ever say that Mary is the mother of God; she is the mother of Christ, the incarnation of both God and man.
God has always existed and created Mary, as well as all of us; We are told that in the beginning was the Word - the second person of the Trinity - and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
My wife is a convert to the RCC and her “Maryology” is just one of the things that literally makes me shiver.
God has always existed and created Mary, as well as all of us; We are told that in the beginning was the Word - the second person of the Trinity - and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
My wife is a convert to the RCC and her “Maryology” is just one of the things that literally makes me shiver.
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zz912
Guest
Some may try to use it as an insult, but that doesn’t mean the term is an insult. The letter X is the Greek letter Chi, which was used by early Christians as a term for Christ. So the terms XMas and Xians simply is shorthand for Christmas and Christian.
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zz912
Guest
Boy that is a lot of running around to ignore basic logic. You acknowledge she is the mother of Christ. Christ is God and the second person of the Trinity. Sooooo, she is the mother of God. The title is NOT meant to say that she is to be worshiped or that she is His creator.
It is a title of honor and recognition that she is the Ark of the New Covenant. If you remember the Ark of the Old Covenant was what was hidden behind the screen in the Holy of Holies in the Temple. It was so holy that people died immediately if they touched it. It was NOT worshiped though. Mary is the new Ark. She was chosen to give birth to God. She is in heaven crowned with twelve stars, and the moon under her feet. She was able to convince Jesus to perform his first miracle through her intercession. By her saying yes to God’s will, she was the vessel that brought God into the world.
So she’s deserving of recognition, veneration, and honor. She is NOT worshiped, nor would she ever want that. Her whole purpose and goal is to show others to her Son, Jesus.
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ChosenAndCalled
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No, my logic is simple: Mary is the mother of Christ. She is not the mother of God. They are different things. To my faith, saying she is the mother of God is heresy. God has no mother, no father - none of the persons of the Trinity was created.
She is also not a new Ark; there is simply no Biblical claim for that.
Also, I never said the RCC worships her.
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PilgrimToChrist
Guest
I’m a semi-Catholic (working on it…), and I didn’t celebrate the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God on Jan 1, I celebrated the Octave Day of the Nativity (Feast of the Circumcision of Christ). As someone noted, the Solemnity of Mary is older but has been celebrated on different days. The Feast of the Maternity of the Blessed Virgin Mary is on Oct. 11. It was moved to replace the Circumcision of Christ on Jan 1 after Vatican II for no apparent reason.
I used to be Anglo-Catholic and we had the Feast of the Holy Name on Jan 1, which commemorates both the naming of Jesus and His circumcision (same event). I understand that Lutherans also celebrate the Holy Name on Jan 1. My Catholic parish celebrated the Holy Name on the following Sunday, which was Jan 3 this year.
"And behold there was a man in Jerusalem named Simeon: and this man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel. And the Holy Ghost was in him. And he had received an answer from the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death before he had seen the Christ of the Lord.
“And he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when his parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the law, he also took him into his arms and blessed God and said: Now dismiss your servant, O Lord, according to your word in peace: Because my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared before the face of all peoples: A light to the revelation of the Gentiles and the glory of your people Israel.” - Lk 2:25-32
In my Anglican community, we started each day with Morning Prayer (Matins+Lauds) which includes the Magnificat and closed it with Evening Prayer (Vespers+Compline) every night with the Nunc Dimittis. Very beautiful! I wish I had people to do the Office with me, it would get me doing it again.
I used to be Anglo-Catholic and we had the Feast of the Holy Name on Jan 1, which commemorates both the naming of Jesus and His circumcision (same event). I understand that Lutherans also celebrate the Holy Name on Jan 1. My Catholic parish celebrated the Holy Name on the following Sunday, which was Jan 3 this year.
"And behold there was a man in Jerusalem named Simeon: and this man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel. And the Holy Ghost was in him. And he had received an answer from the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death before he had seen the Christ of the Lord.
“And he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when his parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the law, he also took him into his arms and blessed God and said: Now dismiss your servant, O Lord, according to your word in peace: Because my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared before the face of all peoples: A light to the revelation of the Gentiles and the glory of your people Israel.” - Lk 2:25-32
In my Anglican community, we started each day with Morning Prayer (Matins+Lauds) which includes the Magnificat and closed it with Evening Prayer (Vespers+Compline) every night with the Nunc Dimittis. Very beautiful! I wish I had people to do the Office with me, it would get me doing it again.
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kalt
Guest
You say that God has no mother and apparently that Christ and God are different things.
If Christ is God, and Mary is the mother of Christ, then she is the Mother of God. If you believe otherwise, you believe that Christ is not fully God.
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PilgrimToChrist
Guest
Here is Pope Paul VI’s justification for replacing the Feast of the Circumcision with the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God:
“In the revised arrangement of the Christmas season, we should all turn with one mind to the restored solemnity of the Mother of God. This feast was entered into the calendar in the liturgy of the city of Rome for the first day of January. The purpose of the celebration is to honor the role of Mary in the mystery of salvation and at the same time to sing the praises of the unique dignity thus coming to “the Holy Mother…through whom we have been given the gift of the Author of life.” This same solemnity also offers an excellent opportunity to renew the adoration rightfully to be shown to the newborn Prince of Peace, as we once again hear the good tidings of great joy and pray to God, through the intercession of the Queen of Peace, for the priceless gift of peace. Because of these considerations and the fact that the octave of Christmas coincides with a day of hope, New Year’s Day, we have assigned to it the observance of the World Day of Peace.”
– Paul VI, Marialis Cultus, Feb. 2, 1974, no.5
I still think it makes more sense to have the Feast of the Circumcision or Holy Name (Lutheran/Anglican) on the 1st. It’s an important event in the Gospel of Luke and the Fourth Joyful Mystery, it needs a celebration. It’s kind of awkward to have two different Roman Rites and two calendars used - traditional Catholics using the pre-1970 and all the rest of the Catholic world using the revised one. Usually different calendars and different liturgies are confined to specific regions or religious orders but now we have two Roman calendars and two Roman Rites, so confusing.
“In the revised arrangement of the Christmas season, we should all turn with one mind to the restored solemnity of the Mother of God. This feast was entered into the calendar in the liturgy of the city of Rome for the first day of January. The purpose of the celebration is to honor the role of Mary in the mystery of salvation and at the same time to sing the praises of the unique dignity thus coming to “the Holy Mother…through whom we have been given the gift of the Author of life.” This same solemnity also offers an excellent opportunity to renew the adoration rightfully to be shown to the newborn Prince of Peace, as we once again hear the good tidings of great joy and pray to God, through the intercession of the Queen of Peace, for the priceless gift of peace. Because of these considerations and the fact that the octave of Christmas coincides with a day of hope, New Year’s Day, we have assigned to it the observance of the World Day of Peace.”
– Paul VI, Marialis Cultus, Feb. 2, 1974, no.5
I still think it makes more sense to have the Feast of the Circumcision or Holy Name (Lutheran/Anglican) on the 1st. It’s an important event in the Gospel of Luke and the Fourth Joyful Mystery, it needs a celebration. It’s kind of awkward to have two different Roman Rites and two calendars used - traditional Catholics using the pre-1970 and all the rest of the Catholic world using the revised one. Usually different calendars and different liturgies are confined to specific regions or religious orders but now we have two Roman calendars and two Roman Rites, so confusing.
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PilgrimToChrist
Guest
The term “Theotokos” (God-bearer, Mother of God) was defined dogmatically at the Council of Ephesus in AD 431 against Nestorius who countered the commonly-used title of “Theotokos” with “Christotokos”, saying that Mary was mother of Jesus’ humanity only. The Council asserted that Nestorius was making too much of a distinction between Jesus’ humanity and His divinity, that is, suggesting that Jesus is two persons – one human and one divine – rather than one person with two natures (human and divine).
But here you are saying that Christ is not God, Nestorius didn’t even do that. That is the Arian heresy, condemned at the First Council of Nicea in AD 325. Today, the Jehovah’s Witnesses still assert a form of the Arian heresy, saying that Christ is a created being, something of a demigod. It is certainly not the Reformed faith that you claim in your profile.
False. God the Son has both Mother and Father.
True. But this does not follow from your last statement (which was false). What does the Creed say?
“Et ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula” – “eternally begotten of the Father” (lit. “and out [of the] Father born before all ages”) and “Genitum, non factum” – “begotten, not made”.
The great mystery of the Incarnation (we kneel during this part of the Creed, out of great respect). What did Zachary sing? “The Dayspring from on high hath visited us” (Lk 1:78), God came down from Heaven (“Descendit de caelis”) and became incarnate (“Et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto”) and was born of the Virgin Mary and became Man (“Ex Maria Virgine, et homo factus est.”)
Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh. If you deny that, you deny Christ.
What did St. Elizabeth say to the Blessed Virgin at the Visitation?
And since you list yourself as Reformed, I would like to quote your heresiarch:
John Calvin affirms Elizabeth’s proclamation that Mary is the Mother of Our Lord, the Mother of God. He affirms the unity of person in the two natures of Christ against the Nestorians. So you said “to my faith”, which you list as “Reformed”, but it is contrary to Calvin’s own belief in the divinity of Christ. Christ, Emmanuel, is God with Us – God come in the flesh. That is the Great Mystery of the Incarnation, the heart and soul of the Christian faith.
It’s true that she’s not made out of acacia wood. It’s an analogy, deal with it.
Peter makes the analogy between the Flood and Baptism. Christ Himself makes the analogy between the brass serpent on a pole and His Crucifixion and between the manna in the desert and the Eucharist. Paul in Hebrews 9-10 draws a comparison between the earthly liturgy of the Jews and the Heavenly Liturgy, between the sacrifice of goats and the sacrifice of God.
In the same way, John makes the analogy between the Ark of the Covenant and Mary:
Since we are on the Catholic Answers forum, I shall link to a Catholic Answers (“This Rock”) article: Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant.
The Blessed Virgin is truly the Ark of the New Covenant, Who is Christ Jesus.
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Jennifer_G
Guest
In my old Lutheran church, I don’t think they had anything for January 1st (although they have August 15th listed as the Assumption in their old hymnals, and maybe Jan. 1st, too.). The 2nd week of Advent, actually, they use light blue (for Mary - their colors are on the altar cloth).Probably.There are some denominations that aren’t too far from Catholic theology, and I wonder about them. Orthodox. Lutheran. Episcopalian esp.
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