M
MrS
Guest
I think the thread is great… but it is addressed to non-Catholics and there in lies the problem… how do we address or comment on their services ? Say nothing? Critique? Compare?
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J
Jabronie
Guest
My intent was just to ask what their service is like. I asked for non-Catholics because I figured if they are on a Catholic board they already have a pretty good idea of what our Mass is, so there is no need for Catholics to describe Mass here. I just was curious of how our Mass compares to what they do for their service. If anything, I just wanted to make a mental note on how much (if any) of their muilti-denominational services are based on our Mass.
I also have my own agenda; I wanted to see how much my girlfriend’s ELCA service compares to a standard non-denominational. Why? Just because that’s the way I am.
It’s fine for us Catholic to comment or ask questions on the protestants’ service, but I was hoping we wouldn’t criticise.
If anyone wants to start a “what kind of worship is better?” thread feel free. I’ll tell you right off that bad I prefer Mass to a Christian rock concert any day of the week…
Thanks for everyone posting BTW !!!
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
Well good if you say your not sarcastic then I believe you
I accept your question and did a quick surf and found
I think this is what you mean, Im really trying hard here on a personal level, because until I went forward I was only paying “lip service” to Christ it was then that I realised totally what and who He is. So bear with me.
Anyway the quote above 66.94.231.168/search/cache?fr=slv1-adbe&p=biblical+reason+for+alter+call&u=www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/altarcall.html&w=biblical+reason+alter+call&d=AnVTbW1aMRhO&icp=1&.intl=ca
I dont have to look through the whole book to find something because he already stated it. I was pricked in my heart totally and HAD to go ask “Peter” (Glenn) what of this you speak. That is a great description of what happens. Thats what happens when one goes forward. Those down there explain Christ or whatever you need to know further about. They everyone prays the sinners prayer and you are encouraged to find a church and sometimes as in Billy Graham they will help you find a church. At your own church it would be to help you in whatever you need.
All the sinners prayer is stating (pre set prayer people
) is FINALLY recognizing that you are a sinner and need Christ in your life. You wouldnt believe how many people think because they are not killers they really are ok and therefore dont need God. Does this help. ?
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
To be clear I went to hear this band yrs ago, there purpose was not entertainment but to spread the Word. It worked in my case and others. But it is not a service or a mass its a evangelistic outreach in other words its just doing what Christ told us to do and that is spread the Good News. That Jesus has risen. The rest is up to me (with help) to follow and find a church. And when I do for that church to help me as they were helped themselves.
D
donbjc
Guest
I’m Catholic, but my wife is Mormon so I have been to her church and she has been to Mass with me.
I was blown away at first, never having attended any church but Catholic in my entire life.
The Mormon services are simple in comparison, no statues or crosses and everyone knows every one and it just seems like a large family getting together to worship. Each ward is comprised of about 500 families and a stake is many of those wards who meet together every few months in a stake conference.
The ward service goes like this:
Opening prayer: a different person from the congregation gives it every week.
Announcements and releasing of teachers and people who have served in some capacity in the ward with a vote of thanks and then giving the jobs to someone else and voting them in.
Sacrament: The Sacramento song and then the prayers over the bread and water which represents the body and blood of Christ, The prayers are given by boys about 16 years old and the sacramento is served by boys 12 years old who are called deacons.
After Sacrament then they have about 4 talks, two by young people(teens usually) and two by adults with assigned topics such as honesty, repentance, doing good deeds of service, all based on the Bible and the commandments of God. Sometimes they have had the same talks as our gospel given by the priest in Mass on the same day. I thought wow they must have co-ordinated the message.
Then they have the closing song and the closing prayer.
Their music is all of the old hyms with some exclusive to Latter Day Saints, such as “Come Come Ye Saints no toil nor trouble fear, but with joy wend your way, when hard to you this journey may appear Christ shall be as your day”. It was written by a pioneer as the Mormons crossed the plains and were suffering many hardships. They all sing in parts and some know the songs by heart, and it always sounds like they have practiced together. They have an organ and a piano and the organist plays for every song. If they have a special musical number then the piano is used.
The first Sunday of every month is a dreadful day(to me), they all fast and give the money to the poor that they would have spent on meals for 24 hours. They also pay their tithing that day of 10% of their gross. Plus they give to the missionary fund and the temple fund, the African patrons fund, the perpetual education fund, the red cross to help the victims of Katrina fundand any other fund they want to give extra to. They start the same as every other Sunday, but after the sacrament is passed they take turns as they feel the spirit(even children as young as 5 or 6) going up to the pulpit and bearing their testimonies on how they love their Father in Heaven and their families and are so thankful for all the blessings they have from God. Some of them tell of personal experiences that have made their faith stronger and then they cry(I hate the crying). They always end their talks and prayers, “In the name of Jesus Christ Amen”.
I got so I wasn’t shocked by all of this, but would never give up Mass.
Don
I was blown away at first, never having attended any church but Catholic in my entire life.
The Mormon services are simple in comparison, no statues or crosses and everyone knows every one and it just seems like a large family getting together to worship. Each ward is comprised of about 500 families and a stake is many of those wards who meet together every few months in a stake conference.
The ward service goes like this:
Opening prayer: a different person from the congregation gives it every week.
Announcements and releasing of teachers and people who have served in some capacity in the ward with a vote of thanks and then giving the jobs to someone else and voting them in.
Sacrament: The Sacramento song and then the prayers over the bread and water which represents the body and blood of Christ, The prayers are given by boys about 16 years old and the sacramento is served by boys 12 years old who are called deacons.
After Sacrament then they have about 4 talks, two by young people(teens usually) and two by adults with assigned topics such as honesty, repentance, doing good deeds of service, all based on the Bible and the commandments of God. Sometimes they have had the same talks as our gospel given by the priest in Mass on the same day. I thought wow they must have co-ordinated the message.
Then they have the closing song and the closing prayer.
Their music is all of the old hyms with some exclusive to Latter Day Saints, such as “Come Come Ye Saints no toil nor trouble fear, but with joy wend your way, when hard to you this journey may appear Christ shall be as your day”. It was written by a pioneer as the Mormons crossed the plains and were suffering many hardships. They all sing in parts and some know the songs by heart, and it always sounds like they have practiced together. They have an organ and a piano and the organist plays for every song. If they have a special musical number then the piano is used.
The first Sunday of every month is a dreadful day(to me), they all fast and give the money to the poor that they would have spent on meals for 24 hours. They also pay their tithing that day of 10% of their gross. Plus they give to the missionary fund and the temple fund, the African patrons fund, the perpetual education fund, the red cross to help the victims of Katrina fundand any other fund they want to give extra to. They start the same as every other Sunday, but after the sacrament is passed they take turns as they feel the spirit(even children as young as 5 or 6) going up to the pulpit and bearing their testimonies on how they love their Father in Heaven and their families and are so thankful for all the blessings they have from God. Some of them tell of personal experiences that have made their faith stronger and then they cry(I hate the crying). They always end their talks and prayers, “In the name of Jesus Christ Amen”.
I got so I wasn’t shocked by all of this, but would never give up Mass.
Don
K
Kendy
Guest
I believe we should come to Christ on His terms as well, but Christ often called people to repentence and conversion. I agree with you that there might be some problematic aspects to the altar call, like the missing altar (But they mean a completely different thing and I am not sure they realize the implications of the word). However, I think, at least, in theory, there is something very good and biblical in the practice. For churches that practices regularly, there is at least a call for those who have not been baptized and do not live a Christian life to repent of their sins and to embrace the Lord and frankly, this is the heart of the gospel.
Furthermore, in practice, I have seen lives changed as a result of these altar calls. Many people really do repent and commit themselves to being disciples of Christ.
Of course, we can quibble about what happens afterwards and whether this needs to happen for one to be a Christian. I never went up on an altar call so I obviously don’t think this is the only way to “get saved.” However, there seems to me something lacking in the fact that whenever I go to a catholic event, whether it be mass, a prayer meeting, or lecture that no one considers the possibility that there maybe an unbelievier among us who needs to be called to repentence, or a backsliding catholic who should recommit himself to the Lord, or even a protestant who could be brought into full communion with the body. I sometimes feel (John Paul II aside) that there is a bit of nonchalance within the RCC about evangelism.
Maybe, every word in the sinner’s prayer is not biblical, it doesn’t mean that there’s nothing good at least in the spirit of the altar call. I think the RCC would do well to consider reviving this practice. I say revive because at least in the book of Acts, there seems to be a few moments that look very similar to the altar call. It’s possible to take the good from this and reject the bad.
Kendy
K
kage_ar
Guest
We Catholics are deeply involved with those converting to Christianity, in fact, we end up going to class with them every week for a year or two - then we are their sponsor for Baptism and Confirmation!
B
blueadept
Guest
That’s a pretty good desciption of the 1st hour (for us) of the sacrament meeting. The 1st Sunday of the month (Fast and Testimony Sunday) always bugged me (I’m Catholic/Wife LDS) from the perspective of everyone ending their testimony with something like, "I believe (BoM, JS is a prophet, This church) is true. As an investigator I was annoyed when some small child would say all this is true while my thoughts were something like “yeah…I want this child to set me straight” (sarcastic thought).
2nd hour is either bible study or gospel essentials for newbies. This year it is on the OT, next year will be the NT, and the following year will be the BoM and church history.
3rd hour is priesthood meeting, broken up by age boys were either deacons, priests, men went to either elder’s quorum or high priests. Women went to their Relief Society meetings
kids went to primary, young women or young men for the 2nd and 3rd hours.
This year my wife’s ward is on the morning schedule 9 to 12. Next year she will be on the afternoon schedule 1 to 4. This is uniquely different from Catholics who choose which mass to go to each weekend.
T
Tonks40
Guest
Nicely said, Kendy!
B
byHisGrace
Guest
An “altar call” during Mass would be totally inappropriate. We are there, in Communion, as worshiping Catholics participating in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Mass is open to ANYONE walking in off the street. At the beginning of Mass we are both called to repentance AND profess our relationship with Christ through the Church. We recommit ourselves to Christ. At Eucharist we personally accept and adore Christ in the MOST intimate way. All are called to be saved, through the grace of God, first through Baptism, and our working out our salvation through out our lives. For those who wish to follow this path to salvation we have established a variety of ways to communicate our faith and invite those who desire the same to join us…not the least through the RCIA process.
As an earlier poster mentioned, some of us spend one evening every week from early September through and past Easter and every Sunday during that same time sponsoring and walking with those enquirers through RCIA class AND the Breaking Open of the Word at Mass every Sunday, in addition to spending personal time with them as well. I can’t think of another denomination that commits more to welcoming each new member to its Church. And, as someone who has come home to the Church, and is now active in RCIA with others who seek, I have never witnessed more effort, prayer, and sacrificial love and a true welcoming spirit, than those Catholics who commit so much of their time and prayers for those seeking to find Christ in their lives.
K
Kendy
Guest
Perhaps, I don’t have such a idealistic view of the people who attend Mass with me. There’s no reason why I should. I don’t ever recall hearing a call to conversion at Mass, and my catholic upbringing and education was at best mediocre usually rotten.
Anyway, sure we coonfessed our sins, but we repeat lots of things in Mass and sometimes, I think many people have no idea what they mean. Thus, it might be helpful to make the call to repentence explicit. Sometimes, you have to bang people over the head a little bit
. Plus, since the Mass is open to anyone off the street that’s more reason to make the call to repentence explicit. All the protestants I have spoken to who have gone to Mass found it confusing. They didn’t know when to sit or kneel; it’s unlikely they might hear an explicit call to repetence.Now, I am not suggesting that there’s anything wrong with being an RCIA sponsor, but the person who is in RCIA has already heard the call to repetence. While we should nurture that found lamb, we also need to go looking for the lost lambs. And we should take every chance we get to do that.
How about an altar call after Mass has ended as a compromise? You can leave out the sinner’s prayer or come up with a catholic one.
Kendy
M
Mickey
Guest
You are very ecumenical.How about an altar call after Mass has ended as a compromise? You can leave out the sinner’s prayer or come up with a catholic one.
B
byHisGrace
Guest
Kendy,Perhaps, I don’t have such a idealistic view of the people who attend Mass with me. There’s no reason why I should. I don’t ever recall hearing a call to conversion at Mass, and my catholic upbringing and education was at best mediocre usually rotten.
Anyway, sure we coonfessed our sins, but we repeat lots of things in Mass and sometimes, I think many people have no idea what they mean. Thus, it might be helpful to make the call to repentence explicit. Sometimes, you have to bang people over the head a little bit
Now, I am not suggesting that there’s anything wrong with being an RCIA sponsor, but the person who is in RCIA has already heard the call to repetence. While we should nurture that found lamb, we also need to go looking for the lost lambs. And we should take every chance we get to do that.
How about an altar call after Mass has ended as a compromise? You can leave out the sinner’s prayer or come up with a catholic one.
Kendy
I had to smile a bit reading this and the previous poster’s comment about you being ecumenical. I applaud your sentiments as we as Catholics need to do so much more to call others to Christ. I just disagree that the Mass is the place to do an “altar call” of sorts. The Mass really does call us to conversion if we pay attention to it, but I realize many of those seeking may be confused or not aware of it. I’ve often thought that one thing we should emmulate our Protestant brothers and sisters on is in our welcoming process. Our “greeters” should somehow ask those walking through our Church doors who aren’t Catholic if they’d like to learn more, and offer to have someone follow up to answer their questions. Short of that, each of us can show by our reverence and prayerfulness at Mass, by our witness, that God is truly present, and inspire those who are observing us to come home to Him.
May God Bless you!
K
Kendy
Guest
Greeters should recognize unfamiliar faces and make friendly conversation. Ask them what brought them to the church. That’s what we did at the Vineyard, and made people feel welcomed so they would come back.
Also, what a great opportunity would Easter Mass be to call people to repetence. I always wonder why the priest never says anything about all those people coming to communion when half of them haven’t been around all year.
A baptist preacher would take this opportunity to preach a little fire and brimstone
.Kendy
V
victory
Guest
I’m Baptist. The first sunday of each month we have communion (with grape juice), baptisms (by immersion) and the new members join the church. Those three things are only done the first sunday of the month.
A normal service has:
worship (singing with music)
greeting people (shake the hands of people sitting near you)
announcements
collect offering
pastor says a prayer then gives sermon
a final song
total time usually about 70 minutes
I used to go to a Methodist church, communion was also grape juice. I also used to go to a Lutheran church, they had a choice of grape juice or wine for communion.
Once I visited a Messianic Jewish service. It was interesting, it was sort of like a conservative Jewish service but they used the whole Bible and the sermon was Christian.
A normal service has:
worship (singing with music)
greeting people (shake the hands of people sitting near you)
announcements
collect offering
pastor says a prayer then gives sermon
a final song
total time usually about 70 minutes
I used to go to a Methodist church, communion was also grape juice. I also used to go to a Lutheran church, they had a choice of grape juice or wine for communion.
Once I visited a Messianic Jewish service. It was interesting, it was sort of like a conservative Jewish service but they used the whole Bible and the sermon was Christian.
C
Casen
Guest
This is an interesting thread. I grew up LDS (Mormon) but whenever we were on vacation on a Sunday growing up my parents would ask us if we wanted to attend LDS church or another religion. Well, it didn’t take us long to figure out that LDS meetings were three hours long and most any other church we would choose would be shorter so we attended lots of other churches. I think it was my parent’s way of exposing us to other faiths in a way that didn’t force it upon us. We would always discuss what we saw afterwards and my parents would emphasize the importance of showing respect even if what we saw seemed “weird” because it was different than what we were used to. I still remember that what I liked most about Catholic Mass as a child was the music, which seemed to me to be deeper and more mysterious.
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