To recieve a blessing, or not to recieve a blessing?

[japhy]

Why couldn’t the Altar also be thought of as ‘The Lord’s Table’?

It can be.

First, an altar is composed of two parts: its base and its surface; the surface is called in Latin the mensa, which means table.

Second, the Church in her documents has sometimes referred to the altar as a table, often as the “table of the sacrament” in juxtaposition with the “table of the word”:
The Church has always venerated the divine Scriptures just as she venerates the body of the Lord, since, especially in the sacred liturgy, she unceasingly receives and offers to the faithful the bread of life from the table both of God’s word and of Christ’s body. (Vatican II, Dei Verbum 21)

Outstanding among all these spiritual aids are those acts by which the faithful are nourished in the Word of God at the double table of the Sacred Scripture and the Eucharist. (Vatican II, Presbyterorum Ordinis 18)

[The faithful] should be instructed by God’s word and be nourished at the table of the Lord’s body… (Vatican II, Sacrosanctum Concilium 48)

We further grant a plenary indulgence to those who, either on the feast of the Blessed Virgin of the Rosary or within its octave, after having similarly purified their souls by a salutary confession, shall have approached the table of Christ and prayed in some church according to Our intention to God and the Blessed Virgin for the necessities of the Church. (Leo XIII, Supremi Apostolatus Officio 9)
The altar is a table. It is a special sort of table, for it is a table where a sacrifice is performed. So long as you keep that perspective in mind, you can speak of the altar as a table respectfully, just like you can call the consecrated Host “Bread” without necessarily contradicting the Church’s belief that it is no longer actually bread.

 

[Cider]

My Dear Cousin has moved away to another city, and I’m going to visit her this Saturday for her Confirmation. ((YaY ))

She knows at this time I am not recieving Communion and has informed me that in her parish the Priest has told her (and everyone else) that if one is not receiving Communion, they are not to get in line at all.

She says the reasoning the Priest gave her is:

'The Mass itself is a blessing"

IOW, it’s like an auto bless…

This confuses me because at our Parish I always get in line, and the Priest blesses me. Just the thought of going to Mass and not being given at least that little bit, leaves me hungry and sad already. For me, it’s like, at first I was embarrassed, sad, ashamed, etc to make that walk - but I have turned the experience into a form of, IDK penance? Even though I can’t partake at this time, I feel it’s something I have to do, to come to the table…to face Him and myself, my failings.

I understand parishes differ slightly, and I don’t want to cause problems. I’ll go and sit but I’m kinda sad about the thought. Is this okay?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=543513

answers your question

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

Oh I apologize, I’m still figuring a lot out as I go along. My RCIA teacher and my Daughter’s catechism papers all sum up the Mass as ‘Thanksgiving’. I’ve always thought of it as ‘celebration’, but I’ve added the idea of it as a Thanksgiving meal to my understanding of it as well.

Don’t worry about it. I’m just very alert to the language used since words like table, bread, and cup, are often used by those who deny the Real Presence and want to degrade the sacrifice of the Mass to be nothing more than a simple communal meal.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Rome has made it clear that the rules presently in place mean that those who are unable to receive Communion should not present themselves for a blessing at that time. Unfortunately, priests have chosen to ignore that, resulting in situations like yours.

If priests hadn’t started doing things they shouldn’t have been doing in the first place we wouldn’t be seeing people hurt when priests do it right.

You and everyone else present will be blessed during the concluding rites a few minutes after Communion so, take heart, you are still getting a blessing.

Thank you very much, Phemie. I’m a convert (since '2004) and am currently an RCIA sponsor. I look to these forums often so that if I have a question, I can find out what the Church teaching is. I saw a recent post and an answer or two very similar to your answer above, so I was able to inform the lady whom I’m sponsoring about this. It is not a “blessing line,” but a Communion line. Everyone at the close of Mass receives a blessing. We had both been wondering about this and are both very grateful to know the Church rulings.
Joy and peace,:heaven:
Kathryn Ann

 

[felsguy]

Don’t worry about it. I’m just very alert to the language used since** words like table, bread, and cup, are often used by those who deny the Real Presence and want to degrade the sacrifice of the Mass to be nothing more than a simple communal meal**.

I’m sorry but in my opinion that’s just nonsense.

.

 

[Rina_Badal]

A liturgical abuse is a liturgical abuse, it comes from the same place, a priest that allows such practices to form under his watch and does nothing to discourage such practices OR even encourage them in some cases. That is not speculation at all.

Sorry, going off topic again, but I think PatriceA that you are generalising concerning liturgical abuses. The examples you have given (holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, liturgical dances …) can be considered liturgical abuses in your country, but permitted in other parts of the world! Rome recognises the cultural diversity within the Universal Church and grants the Conference of Bishops in different countries the authority to establish norms and give directives (in consistency with the teaching of the Church). An example of this is the ‘sign of peace’ to be exchanged during the Mass.
Allow me to quote the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, ‘in which are given the norms for adaptation of the liturgy to the character and the traditions of the various peoples’:
"In matters which do not affect the faith or the well-being of an entire community, the Church does not wish, even in the Liturgy, to impose a rigid uniformity; on the contrary, she respects and fosters the genius and talents of various races and people. Whatever in their way of life is not indissolubly bound up with superstition and error, she looks upon with benevolence and if possible keeps it intact, and sometimes even admits it into the Liturgy provided it accords with the genuine and authentic liturgical spirit." – Vatican Council II
Btw, concerning liturgical dances, please check this youtube.com/watch?v=9rJFdmmqj_s
I like it!
Peace,
Rina
Ps. Apologies to all especially Charlotte408

 

[minkymurph]

Sorry, going off topic again, but I think PatriceA that you are generalising concerning liturgical abuses. The examples you have given (holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, liturgical dances …) can be considered liturgical abuses in your country, but permitted in other parts of the world! Rome recognises the cultural diversity within the Universal Church and grants the Conference of Bishops in different countries the authority to establish norms and give directives (in consistency with the teaching of the Church). An example of this is the ‘sign of peace’ to be exchanged during the Mass.
Allow me to quote the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, ‘in which are given the norms for adaptation of the liturgy to the character and the traditions of the various peoples’:
"In matters which do not affect the faith or the well-being of an entire community, the Church does not wish, even in the Liturgy, to impose a rigid uniformity; on the contrary, she respects and fosters the genius and talents of various races and people. Whatever in their way of life is not indissolubly bound up with superstition and error, she looks upon with benevolence and if possible keeps it intact, and sometimes even admits it into the Liturgy provided it accords with the genuine and authentic liturgical spirit." – Vatican Council II
Btw, concerning liturgical dances, please check this youtube.com/watch?v=9rJFdmmqj_s
I like it!
Peace,
Rina
Ps. Apologies to all especially Charlotte408

I would agree with this. We can’t look at things in black and white. We do have to take into account cultural diversity, and allow for the fact what may be considered a liturgical abuse in one part of the world may not be in another. If the reason particular practice takes place is merely a consequence of cultural diversity, we should respect that and not label them ‘wrong’ just because it’s not our way of doing things. We should all be free to praise God without restraint of rules and regulations that are put in place simply for the sake of having them. Not one’s that aren’t of course.

I’ve seen much cultural diversity in the celebration of Mass. I attended a Mass in Portugal in a very old church, and this particular one was said in English to accommodate people on holiday. Sorry I don’t know the terminology, but the priest went in through a gate to the altar, and held up the host with his back to the people. There were no altar servers, and no ministers of the Eucharist. This would also be the case in my parish on a weekday Mass. As the people attending were from different countries, at certain points of the Mass, some people were kneeling and others were standing. Some people would feel this should not be the case, and things should be standardized so everyone does the same thing. To me, it demonstrated the universality of our faith in that irrespective of our differences, we can all come together to celebrate the Mass and understand what is happening.

 

[minkymurph]

I’ve seen much cultural diversity in the celebration of Mass. I attended a Mass in Portugal in a very old church, and this particular one was said in English to accommodate people on holiday. Sorry I don’t know the terminology, but the priest went in through a gate to the altar, and held up the host with his back to the people. There were no altar servers, and no ministers of the Eucharist. This would also be the case in my parish on a weekday Mass. As the people attending were from different countries, at certain points of the Mass, some people were kneeling and others were standing. Some people would feel this should not be the case, and things should be standardized so everyone does the same thing. To me, it demonstrated the universality of our faith in that irrespective of our differences, we can all come together to celebrate the Mass and understand what is happening.

This was further demonstrated at an International Mass I attended in Lourdes. The Mass was in French because the celebrant was French, and they had a screen translating what he said. The church is huge, becomes very hot, and a huge number of people attend. Many people can’t get a seat, the Mass is quite long, and sometimes people have fainted. As a result, people sit on the floor and bring water bottles.

I’ve also been to Masses in Rome. There is a very strict dress code in Rome. In Lourdes there isn’t; simply because it’s a different culture, and what is considered unacceptable Rome is not considered unacceptable there. A lot of Masses in Lourdes are also held outside, and people passing often join the Mass while sightseeing, or stop to pray. Sightseers also visit church’s while a Mass is being said, so there’s a constant stream of traffic. At a Mass in Rome or Lourdes, you are never alone.

In my parish, several members of the Indian community attend Mass. They hold their hands out when the Our Father is said, obviously because that is their custom. It’s not ours, but no one tells them it’s ‘wrong’ and they don’t insist everyone else does it. My parish also has the practice of giving blessings. One of the reasons for that is in my part of the world, we have emerged from conflict and there is a lot of focus on healing the divisions between Catholics and Protestants. Today, more Protestants would attend a wedding/baptism in a Catholic Church, or a funeral Mass. On these occasions, the priest would invite people who cannot receive Holy Communion to approach the priest for a blessing, and the effect in terms of reconciling the two communities has been a good one.
Protestants are also now permitted to teach in Catholic schools, which they wouldn’t have been in the past. When the children are taken to Mass, teachers from the Protestant community may receive a blessing. Therefore, their may be a very good reason for a practice that may be perceived a liturgical abuse in another context or culture. I would say bishops are best placed to make the call.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

I’m sorry but in my opinion that’s just nonsense.

.

Do you mind elaborating on that?

 

[felsguy]

Originally Posted by smndtupidisaftr

Don’t worry about it. I’m just very alert to the language used since words like table, bread, and cup, are often used by those who deny the Real Presence and want to degrade the sacrifice of the Mass to be nothing more than a simple communal meal. (emphasis added by Felsguy)

Originally Posted by felsguy

I’m sorry but in my opinion that’s just nonsense.

Do you mind elaborating on that?

Not at all.

Let’s see. Last night I attended Thursday of the Lord’s Supper: At the Evening Mass. Right before Mass began, the lector read an introduction provided by our pastor although I don’t know his source. Having posted my comment just an hour before, I was so struck by these words that after Mass I copied right from the lector’s copy: “We gather now to break the bread of life and to share the cup of salvation at the Lord’s table.”

Then, during the second reading from Saint Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthian’s, I heard, among other things, “For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.”

Then, during the homily, our pastor said that just children are fed at the table by their parents time and time again, so Jesus nourishes us at the **table **(here he gestured towards the altar) time and time again.

These are just some of the most recent examples of how I have heard the words table, bread, and cup used for over forty years now. Maybe we just hang out in different places.

.

 

[Corki]

These are just some of the most recent examples of how I have heard the words table, bread, and cup used for over forty years now. Maybe we just hang out in different places.

.

Of course, you hear a lot of those words. But do you hear a lot about the Mass as a Sacrifice?

When the USCCB reviewed catechism texts for school children, this was one of the main reasons cited for a text or series not being on the list as “in conformity”. Too much emphasis on the meal and not enough on the Sacrifice.

 

[felsguy]

Of course, you hear a lot of those words. But do you hear a lot about the Mass as a Sacrifice?

When the USCCB reviewed catechism texts for school children, this was one of the main reasons cited for a text or series not being on the list as “in conformity”. Too much emphasis on the meal and not enough on the Sacrifice.

I’m not following. Are you saying this is “denying the Real Presence”?

 

[Corki]

I’m not following. Are you saying this is “denying the Real Presence”?

No, I am saying that the USCCB thought so or at least that the mis-emphasis was serious enough to confuse our youth about the Real Presence.

 

[felsguy]

No, I am saying that the USCCB thought so or at least that the mis-emphasis was serious enough to confuse our youth about the Real Presence.

I still don’t think that comes anywhere close to saying that the use of te, bd, and cp implies a denial of the Real Presence but what do I know. I’m easily influenced when I read something like “It is in this world that Christian hope must shine forth! For this reason too, the Lord wished to remain with us in the Eucharist, making his presence in **meal and sacrifice **the promise of a humanity renewed by his love.”

Look, I spend enough time here to realize that some are of the intensely held opinion that the Mass is to be discussed only in terms of a sacrifice and introducing the elements of a meal is another of those “evil fruits of the spirit of Vatican II”. My opinion is otherwise, but as I said at the outset, it is an opinion.

We can throw quotations from Scripture, encyclicals, and catechisms at each other all night but we’re not going to change anyone’s opinion. My concern is that opinion be differentiated from fact, let alone doctrine.

.

 

[jannes]

There are occasions when I don’t feel comfortable taking Communion what amazes me is that on these occasions I seem to be the only one in the Church not approaching the alter .When I was young Fifty tears ago it was quite common to see maybe every pew had one or two not Partaking now it seems everyone does males me wonder what I’m doing wrong

 

[minkymurph]

There are occasions when I don’t feel comfortable taking Communion what amazes me is that on these occasions I seem to be the only one in the Church not approaching the alter .When I was young Fifty tears ago it was quite common to see maybe every pew had one or two not Partaking now it seems everyone does males me wonder what I’m doing wrong

Your not doing anything wrong. What has changed is times and culture. As you say, fifty years ago it was quite common to see people not partaking. Today, that is not the case and people feel more uncomfortable about it. I’ve also heard many people today say there is no point in going to Mass if you cannot receive the host.

Fifty years ago people went to confession more regularly than they do now. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is now a much underused Sacrament. One reason being people have lost faith in it, and no longer believe one needs to go to confession before receiving the Eucharist. Another problem in my parish is people didn’t the opportunity to avail themselves of the Sacrament as readily as in the past. We now have a new parish priest who has changed that, and hears confessions more often.

Another reason is the fact that many Catholics today don’t practice. They take their child to church for baptism, first Holy Communion and Confirmation, and on those occasions, the parents receive Communion because they’re not comfortable asking the child to do it when they don’t. The same follows if they attend a Mass for a funeral/wedding or someone else’s first Holy Communion or Confirmation. It is becoming more common first Holy Communion and Confirmation are the only times a child is taken to Mass. My own parish priest said recently when children are older, they have forgotten how to make a confession and receive Holy Communion because the parents don’t practice.

Two others factors influence people today. The first one is we live in a culture were everything is a ‘right’ - ‘it’s my ‘right’ to have this, it’s my ‘right’ to that.’ As a consequence, the Sacraments have become a commodity to be had on demand. It is now a ‘right’ for Catholics to receive Holy Communion because they have been raised Catholic, and it is their ‘right’ to have their children baptized and Confirmed, their ‘right’ to be married in a Catholic Church, and their ‘right’ to be buried from one. The view that this is what the Church is their for is a popular notion. As we say in my part of the world, ‘hatched, matched and dispatched.’

Another common feature in my part of the world is the number of families were children have different biological fathers and the mother doesn’t live (people don’t get married now 'cos that’s ‘old fashioned’ with any of them. Many of the mothers bring their children to Mass, and because they want their children to receive Holy Communion and they don’t want to be ‘left out,’ so do they. A friend of mine raised this with the parish priest as he lives in a parish were this is very common. The priest agreed it wasn’t right, but it has become so common the church feels it has no control over it, and if he refused Holy Communion to the mothers, they would stop bringing the children to Mass.

I’m not saying I think the priest is right, but I can understand it. On one occasion, there was a big ‘hoo ha’ in my part of the world, and a big debate on the radio because a priest refused a woman Holy Communion because she was living with someone while still officially married to someone else. The woman’s argument was, other people haven’t been to confession and are doing many things they shouldn’t be. He gave them Holy Communion so why not her? The priests answer was, he didn’t know about them but he knew about her. So, I can understand why priests would want to avoid a confrontational situation highlighted by a very public debate on the radio.

 

[Corki]

There are occasions when I don’t feel comfortable taking Communion what amazes me is that on these occasions I seem to be the only one in the Church not approaching the alter .When I was young Fifty tears ago it was quite common to see maybe every pew had one or two not Partaking now it seems everyone does males me wonder what I’m doing wrong

I think it all depends on where you live and the culture. In my parish, about a third do not go up at all and some of the ones that do go up don’t receive. At the Spanish Mass, it’s less than half.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

People get in line to recieve communion. The entire church gets a blessing at the very end of mass.
That is what my parish priest told me.

My Dear Cousin has moved away to another city, and I’m going to visit her this Saturday for her Confirmation. ((YaY ))

She knows at this time I am not recieving Communion and has informed me that in her parish the Priest has told her (and everyone else) that if one is not receiving Communion, they are not to get in line at all.

She says the reasoning the Priest gave her is:

'The Mass itself is a blessing"

IOW, it’s like an auto bless…

This confuses me because at our Parish I always get in line, and the Priest blesses me. Just the thought of going to Mass and not being given at least that little bit, leaves me hungry and sad already. For me, it’s like, at first I was embarrassed, sad, ashamed, etc to make that walk - but I have turned the experience into a form of, IDK penance? Even though I can’t partake at this time, I feel it’s something I have to do, to come to the table…to face Him and myself, my failings.

I understand parishes differ slightly, and I don’t want to cause problems. I’ll go and sit but I’m kinda sad about the thought. Is this okay?