To set the Record straight Catholics do not worship Mary!

[Namesake]

I don’t know if this counts but I know a few Catholics, my brother-in-law for example, who say things like “she has saved me from many bad situations”. Isn’t that asking too much from Mary?

 

[nbtb1348]

I don’t know if this counts but I know a few Catholics, my brother-in-law for example, who say things like “she has saved me from many bad situations”. Isn’t that asking too much from Mary?

It’s because they need someone other than the Savior. Why? Because many of them don’t know the Savior. They only know about Him.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Actually Catholics know the Savior better than at least some protestants here because they don’t forget that He is human as well as divine, the son of Mary as well as the Son of God.

I’ll tell you what though . . .you go on worshipping God in your way, and I’ll keep on worshipping Him in HIS way.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Also you made a slip. You said,

" Why? Because many of them don’t know the Savior. They only know about Him."

Of course in your slip you actually come near the truth. We ‘only’ (that is, we Catholics) know about Him --fully. Because we worship God and honor His saints. . .thus giving Him FULL worship and not half-worship.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I’m too busy focusing on my Savior. And any talk about her being a co-redemptrix, which you teach, shows that there are things driving your devotion to Mary that are not fueled by the Holy Spirit.

I have a question for you. What kind of sin is it when a person who doesn’t know or understand a certain faith comes into a space set up for that faith and proceeds to verbalize error after error after error, and refuse any kind of correction?

Supposing your motives are good, would it make any sort of sense to go into Aborigine country to minister to the natives if you didn’t have the first clue what their lives were like?

It is difficult to debate people who don’t know what they are talking about. I would think you feel some embarrassment to make wrong statements. Or, is what’s really going on is that you heard something John MacArthur said, and since you cannot imagine in your wildest dreams how he could get anything wrong, you decided to adopt his beliefs about the Catholic Church and superficially skim some terminology and then march in here and set everyone straight. Poor reasoning. Narrow thinking. You think this is evangelization?

Co-redemptrix is not a dogma of the Church. Even if it were, it is not theologically related to the veneration of Mary. You are confusing ideas. Obviously, you have no idea what that idea of co-redemptrix actually means, and you cannot ever if you don’t understand the true positon of Mary in the Church. You don’t understand it. Not even the basics. (Hint: it has nothing even remotely to do with deification of Mary or the insufficiency of the cross.)

So, first error in your sentence dealt with.

Your second error, “that there are things driving your devotion to Mary that are not fueled by the Holy Spirit” is utterly meaningless. You don’t offer a single rational argument for why this would be the case, and of course, it follows that it would be impossible for you to make such a case when you don’t comprehend Mary’s role in the Church.

Do you want to understand, or do you want to be a star in your own self-constructed fantasy where you come in here and set everyone straight?

 

[CentralFLJames]

You are adrift on a sea of confusion. Jesus said you must be born again, and you think your baptism got you that…

From the way you talk and misunderstand scripture, I honestly doubt Christ is in you…

He simply will not give you the new birth until you come to him trusting that the cross alone saves you. There are so many verses…

But you don’t believe that, and so my friend, you cannot be saved. Scripture trumps all your words, all your traditions and all your pride…

But you insist on boasting in works, and so you cannot be saved…

You have a lot more to worry about than doctrines on Mary. I will not discuss these things with you again unless you seek the truth.

God Bless

Let me see - after I removed all your scripture wrappings all I see here is what is in your heart - a wild litany of venom, contempt, bigotry, self-righteousness judgementalism and assumptive pride. I don’t think I recognize Jesus in any of that. Does the “God Bless” bit at the end of all that vitriolic spew make it a prayer?

And here you go again - trying to tell others what they believe and what’s in their heads as if you are a mind reader.

I have never boasted about works. (you are bearing false witness)
I am baptised and therefor “reborn” again. (you don’t understand scripture)
The Apostolic Catholic Church has divine authority to interpret scripture and that authority trumps your ignorance of scripture every time (Catholics wrote the entire NT gospels and gave you the bible)

Let me guess you are also one of those people who also believes in the lie of Once Saved Always Saved? (The Authoritative Word of God Debunks OSAS Here)

Do you think you are really saved with all that bigotry coming out of you?

James

 

[Napsack]

It’s because they need someone other than the Savior. Why? Because many of them don’t know the Savior. They only know about Him.

Amen.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Amen.

You say Amen to someone else’s lie about the hearts of other people.

Disturbing, sad, and 100% wrong.

Tell me, Napsack, what do you think of St. Faustina’s relationship with Jesus?

 

[Napsack]

This sort of lexical fundamentalism is just so hard for us Catholics to deal with charitably.

Do you really have even a clue what the real semantics are behind Jesus’ words here? This gets so old dealing with those who do not understand the forms of speech in the original Aramaic times and in the Greek transliterations from the words spoken in Aramaic much less the anachronistic artifacts of English seen particularly in Protestant Bibles. This is EXACTLY why it is spiritual suicide to have a layperson with no period knowledge and no apostolic teaching tradition that is behind the actual words to get into the private interpretation hobby.

Jesus was not negating the blessedness of His mother in making this statement. He was just telling those present that those who could follow His teaching would be blessed. The idiom spoken by Jesus re-expressed in the modern English vernacular “rather” is just a means by which Jesus asserts His authority to correct the assumption (and no doubt suppress envy among the women present) that only one who is a blood relative of Jesus is blessed. This is in fact a highly Catholic principal since its Jesus himself saying authoritatively that The Kingdom of God is available to ALL people who obey His teachings - not just a special elect few.

Your defective interpretation would contradict scripture in two other areas. One place tells us quite plainly that ‘Mary is blessed above all women’ and another is Mary’s own prophesy
‘that all generations will call me blessed’. If you permit your interpretation then you might as well just admit sola scripture is bankrupt and toss your bible in the trash-can since the bible completely contradicts itself when privately interpreted by those with no business to be teaching this rubbish.

You are not just ignorant of scripture - you are dangerous to yourself and anyone that listens to you.

James

Who do you think you are passing all these judgments on me like this? You have no grounds to preach about sola-scriptura and ignorant of Scripture, none… It’s all excuses and words for you to hide behind because your will won’t let you open your mind and heart to God’s Word. Been there done that and ain’t goin’ back. I’ll pray for you.

 

[CentralFLJames]

nbtb1348:

It’s because they need someone other than the Savior. Why? Because many of them don’t know the Savior. They only know about Him

Amen.

Was that “AMEN” the gavel coming down on the judgement or somone logging in on their sock puppet account to form the jury and render its decision?

I want an appeal - where is any of this in scripture that says a person can be tried and executed on the testimony of one person?



James

 

[Napsack]

You say Amen to someone else’s lie about the hearts of other people.

Disturbing, sad, and 100% wrong.

Tell me, Napsack, what do you think of St. Faustina’s relationship with Jesus?

Why don’t you tell me about yours.

 

[Napsack]

Was that “AMEN” the gavel coming down on the judgement or somone logging in on their sock puppet account to form the jury and render its decision?

I want an appeal - where is any of this in scripture that says a person can be tried and executed on the testimony of one person?



James

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Who do you think you are passing all these judgments on me like this? You have no grounds to preach about sola-scriptura and ignorant of Scripture, none… It’s all excuses and words for you to hide behind because your will won’t let you open your mind and heart to God’s Word. Been there done that and ain’t goin’ back. I’ll pray for you.

Ok, so you can come here to judge Catholics, because you used to be one (did you understand your faith at all, or did you just go to Mass without ever understanding what was happening?) but when your internal contradictions are pointed out you complain?



If you’ve got such a superior grasp of Scripture and a meaningful argument for sola scriptura, then state it. If you can’t, then maybe you should examine your beliefs more carefully.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Why don’t you tell me about yours.

A true life-long conversion of the heart and mind from living in the the flesh to living through the Spirit cannot be reduced to simplistic cliches. Conversion is accomplished by the grace of God alone, not by our own righteousness, but that does not mean it is not a process. We must see God through faith, and respond to God with our will (James 2:20).

Worship of God is perfectly represented in the solemnity of Mass. In Mass we participate with our bodies, minds, hearts, and spirits. We respond in unison. In every Mass we hear the Old Testament, the New Testament epistles, the Gospel, the priests’ exhortation and teaching of the readings. In every Mass we stand, we sing, we kneel, and finally, we partake of the body and blood of Christ, a body and blood that is vibrantly alive with His Real Presence, in a Church where we are still One Body.

Is that sufficient to convince you I know what you are talking about when you ask me about my relationship with Jesus, or was there a word missing from the formula in your pamphlet?

Now that I’ve answered you, please answer me.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Is that sufficient to convince you I know what you are talking about when you ask me about my relationship with Jesus, or was there a word missing from the formula in your pamphlet?

Now that I’ve answered you, please answer me.

Oh, wait, I have another post from today.

I don’t have a great answer for you, but there is something that occurred to me a while ago.

Almost everyone in Christian-Western society, whether they understand the gospel or not, perceives the cross and Jesus as religious symbols. And yet, in 1st century Rome, the cross was a torture device used on the most despicable of criminals. To the Romans, and to the Jews, the cross meant defeat, in every sense of the word. The Jewish messiah was expected to be worldly savior, who rescued the Jewish people from political domination. He was supposed to successful, not a failure. When Jesus was taken to the cross, it was a perceived failure. In being resurrected, Jesus transformed weakness, failure, and that which is despicable into triumph. So, when we see a person who has failed, or a person who is despised by those around him, or a person who is hungry and weak, we see Jesus today here on earth. We see the cross. When we respond in love, like Jesus, we transform the world.

Jesus was entirely innocent. He never sinned. He healed and He loved. His goodness was like a bright shining light. For those who loved evil, his bright shining light was like spotlight that revealed how despicable they were. Jesus’ goodness incited those who did not want their hearts revealed to ruthlessly torture him on the cross. But for those who loved truth, Jesus was a supernatural call to a different way of life.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Who do you think you are passing all these judgments on me like this? You have no grounds to preach about sola-scriptura and ignorant of Scripture, none… It’s all excuses and words for you to hide behind because your will won’t let you open your mind and heart to God’s Word. Been there done that and ain’t goin’ back. I’ll pray for you.

I have every right to correct a blatantly wrong interpretation of scripture after you refused to entertain any rational discussion on it. You have demonstrated over and over by the contradictions you created that you lack even fundamental knowledge of scripture. You were so obstinate in refusing to take correction that you judged yourself by your own nonsense.

Catholics have been teaching the proper apostolic rendering of scripture for 2,000 years. The Catholic Church IS the AUTHORITY on scripture. Who do you think you are coming into a Catholic forum as a Johnny-Come-Lately trying to teach the teachers of scripture? The Catholic Church wrote and assembled scripture in cooperation with the Holy Spirit working through Her. The apostles never had a bible nor EVER saw a bible therefore they did not EVER teach sola scriptura. At no time in the early Church’s history has sola scriptura EVER been taught. If you want to challenge this then prove it with historical records.

Apostolic teaching is done by oral instruction in front of the congregation or disciples - it was NOT EVER done by reading and interpreting what one wants to read into scripture until Luther came 1400 years later and taught you his errors.

I suggest you open your own mind and heart to the real scripture interpretations and teachings that Catholics can teach you since yours is so full of contradictions that it makes a mockery of the bible and the Christian faith.

James

 

[ufamtobie]

It is still foreign to what the NT writers and Jesus himself set forth. If Mary was to be obssessed over like this, there would have been much more said. It is merely the result of man adding to Scripture, or at least attempting to.

Nbtb,

You sure hate the Catholic Church so Much that you are willing even to put the Lords Mother Down. Shame on you!

Mary, filled with the holy Spirit said: “ALL GENERATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESSED.”

And you call it Obssessed. Mary surely had a sword pierced through her heart for the MANY! I wonder if you are considered among the Many.

FYI of all the faithful Catholics combined that ever existed that has Love for Virgin Mary this love does not even scratch the surface of the LOVE that Jesus Christ has for his Mother. Nbtb, you think you are offending us Catholic, let me tell you you are offending someone GREATER that is Jesus Christ Himself.

Ufam tobie

 

[diggingdeeper]

How would you know if a Catholic stepped over into Mary worship. What would be the evidence?

 

[diggingdeeper]

I know what you’re saying. But could you answer that question?

 

[RobHom]

It doesn’t say Yes, Rather. Jesus just says Rather. What are you driving at here?

Actually, you are off the mark on two points:

1. The passage that you “attempted” to disabuse to conform to some illegitimate meaning of your own device, does in fact begin;

**27 And it came to pass, as he spoke these things, a certain woman from the crowd, lifting up her voice, said to him: Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. 28 But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. drbo.org/chapter/49011.htm Also, the KJV says exactly the same thing, therefore your quote is invalid…sorry.

1. You were so far out of context, its not even worth pursuing, but I’m sure if you get ahold of a good Bible and read the 11th Chapter of Luke and do it completely you’ll find your error.

By the by, the word rather does not mean “more”.