To the skeptics: what evidence would convince you?

[TomD123]

okay so answer me this. Without God, would you still do what is morally right? Can you not do what is right without God? Do you do something good because God will reward you and think well of you? To me that seems extremely selfish because shouldn’t you do good just because it is good?

People. as conscious beings, just feel lonely in our universe. (you can see the theme of loneliness in literature etc) and God fills that void by directly coming into contact with us…

How is there morality without God? This life would just be about making yourself happy because everyone else does not matter- they would be just a bunch of atoms in space. As a Christian, I would not do what is right just to get to heaven, I would do what is right because other people really matter, they are not just another creature of evolution, or just another configuration of atoms- no different than a car or a tree.

 

[R_Daneel]

How is there morality without God? This life would just be about making yourself happy because everyone else does not matter- they would be just a bunch of atoms in space. As a Christian, I would not do what is right just to get to heaven, I would do what is right because other people really matter, they are not just another creature of evolution, or just another configuration of atoms- no different than a car or a tree.

It is truly amazing that this nonsense cannot be eradicated. Yes, other persons are a bunch of atoms in space. And so are we. But if we are about to make ourselves happy (our own bunch of atoms) then we **value **our own bunch of atoms. Why do think that we do not **value **your bunch of atoms?

 

[tonyrey]

It is truly amazing that this nonsense cannot be eradicated. Yes, other persons are a bunch of atoms in space. And so are we. But if we are about to make ourselves happy (our own bunch of atoms) then we **value **our own bunch of atoms. Why do think that we do not **value **your bunch of atoms?

It is truly astonishing that your nonsense can so easily and swiftly be eradicated!

1. If you are just a bunch of atoms “you” do not even exist.
2. What you regard as “you” is just a bunch of atoms which have no control over themselves and have accidentally arranged themselves to form other arrangements of atoms which produce other arrangements of atoms like “your thoughts”.
3. In a mindless universe everything becomes meaningless, valueless and purposeless - including the statement that “we are a bunch of atoms”!
4. You have succeeded magnificently with inexorable logic in destroying your own argument and conclusion. Congratulations for revealing the total absurdity of materialism!

 

[Hooding_Trees]

There is a lot of evidence for God in general and the Catholic God

Well not really, in actual fact there is none.

 

[R_Daneel]

It is truly astonishing that your nonsense can so easily and swiftly be eradicated!

1. If you are just a bunch of atoms “you” do not even exist.
2. What you regard as “you” is just a bunch of atoms which have no control over themselves and have accidentally arranged themselves to form other arrangements of atoms which produce other arrangements of atoms like “your thoughts”.
3. In a mindless universe everything becomes meaningless, valueless and purposeless - including the statement that “we are a bunch of atoms”!
4. You have succeeded magnificently with inexorable logic in destroying your own argument and conclusion. Congratulations for revealing the total absurdity of materialism!

Well, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? I have this nice big lump of coal in my hand. I offer it to you exchange for your diamond ring. You will be better off, since you will get more carbon atoms in the trade. Are you willing to trade? No? So there is a difference between the arrangement of those atoms? Ever heard of emerging attributes? You should look it up sometime. Then you would not embarrass yourself with these idiotic posts.

 

[ManOnFire]

okay so answer me this. Without God, would you still do what is morally right? Not necessarily. We can all fake migraines on monday morining, call in sick, and let someone else do the work. Personally, I’d feel guilty because lying is a sin. But if you make your self judge and jury because you are convinced you deserve a day off, you can rationalize your action. Can you not do what is right without God? Without conscience, more will choose NOT to.Do you do something good because God will reward you and think well of you? To me that seems extremely selfish because shouldn’t you do good just because it is good? Ambition without conscience will eventually lead to somone in power who will take advantage of people.

People. as conscious beings, just feel lonely in our universe. (you can see the theme of loneliness in literature etc) and God fills that void by directly coming into contact with us…

 

[ManOnFire]

Some people just want a low-key life and simply can’t be bothered with living by someone else’s rules.

 

[tonyrey]

1. If you are just a bunch of atoms “you” do not even exist.
2. What you regard as “you” is just a bunch of atoms which have no control over themselves and have accidentally arranged themselves to form other arrangements of atoms which produce other arrangements of atoms like “your thoughts”.
3. In a mindless universe everything becomes meaningless, valueless and purposeless - including the statement that “we are a bunch of atoms”!
4. You have succeeded magnificently with inexorable logic in destroying your own argument and conclusion. Congratulations for revealing the total absurdity of materialism!

You think the phrase “emerging attributes” disposes of the mind with which you reach all your conclusions? If you do there is only one idiot around here… What a joke! And what on earth have carbon atoms to do with evidence? Your example merely reveals where your real values lie -
underground…

 

[R_Daneel]

You think the phrase “emerging attributes” disposes of the mind with which you reach all your conclusions?

Disposes? Explains!

And what on earth have carbon atoms to do with evidence?

Everything, though you don’t comprehend it. It shows that the arrangement of the atoms is as important as the building blocks themselves.

 

[tonyrey]

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](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6483275#post6483275)
*

You think the phrase “emerging attributes” disposes of the mind with which you reach all your conclusions?

It’s a unique explanation if two words suffice to solve a problem which has preoccupied man since the dawn of history… Your unswerving faith is also unique… Two words are enough! http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6483275#post6483275

And what on earth have carbon atoms to do with evidence?

Everything, though you don’t comprehend it. It shows that the
arrangement of the atoms is as important as the building blocks themselves.

Ah! Back to atoms once again - the source of truth, goodness, beauty, freedom, justice, consciousness, purpose and love - in fact everything that exists… A most economical explanation - but how does explanation fit into the picture? Are the atoms explaining themselves?

And one more thing: where did the atoms come from?

I can understand why no evidence would convince you - because nothing counts as evidence for anything! Evidence doesn’t even exist. Only atoms, atoms and more atoms… I shall dream of atoms tonight!

 

[hellopeople]

Its ok to be skeptical but if you truly want to know God you must have faith in him first and put your pride to the side. That is the only way to know God.

This isn’t necessarily true. Sometimes people will be staunch atheists have conversions, though this does not happen often. Also, by the very nature of being skeptical you will not be able to put faith in God without proof.

 

[hellopeople]

Some people just want a low-key life and simply can’t be bothered with living by someone else’s rules.

And other people have looked into religion and the existence of God and have come to the rational conclusion that God does not exist. I am personally a believer, but I do believe that coming to the conclusion that God does not exist is a rational assessment as well.

 

[hellopeople]

It’s a unique explanation if two words suffice to solve a problem which has preoccupied man since the dawn of history… Your unswerving faith is also unique… Two words are enough! http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6483275#post6483275

Ah! Back to atoms once again - the source of truth, goodness, beauty, freedom, justice, consciousness, purpose and love - in fact everything that exists… A most economical explanation - but how does explanation fit into the picture? Are the atoms explaining themselves?

And one more thing: where did the atoms come from?

I can understand why no evidence would convince you - because nothing counts as evidence for anything! Evidence doesn’t even exist. Only atoms, atoms and more atoms… I shall dream of atoms tonight!

Ahhh, the old “God of the gaps” argument.

 

[lemondiesel]

It is truly astonishing that your nonsense can so easily and swiftly be eradicated!

1. If you are just a bunch of atoms “you” do not even exist.
2. What you regard as “you” is just a bunch of atoms which have no control over themselves and have accidentally arranged themselves to form other arrangements of atoms which produce other arrangements of atoms like “your thoughts”.
3. In a mindless universe everything becomes meaningless, valueless and purposeless - including the statement that “we are a bunch of atoms”!
4. You have succeeded magnificently with inexorable logic in destroying your own argument and conclusion. Congratulations for revealing the total absurdity of materialism!

oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, magnesium, iron, fluorine, zinc, silicon, rubidium, strontium, bromine, lead, copper, aluminum, cadmium, cerium, barium, iodine, tin, titanium, boron, nickel, selenium, chromium, manganese, arsenic, lithium, cesium, mercury, germanium, molybdenum, cobalt, antimony, silver, niobium, zirconium, lanthanum, gallium, tellurium, yttrium, bismuth, thallium, indium, gold, scandium, tantalum, vanadium, thorium, uranium, samarium, beryllium, tungsten

these chemicals combine to make up our brain and body to produce certain moods, reactions, and feelings. Research Neurotransmitters before making irrational claims that you obviously have NO knowledge about.

Endorphins : Substances produced by the body that kill pain or produce a feeling of well-being. But i guess thats God working in us to overcome objectives.

Congratulations for trying to defend your beliefs without knowing anything from the argueing side…

 

[R_Daneel]

Ah! Back to atoms once again - the source of truth, goodness, beauty, freedom, justice, consciousness, purpose and love - in fact everything that exists… A most economical explanation - but how does explanation fit into the picture? Are the atoms explaining themselves?

And one more thing: where did the atoms come from?

I can understand why no evidence would convince you - because nothing counts as evidence for anything! Evidence doesn’t even exist. Only atoms, atoms and more atoms… I shall dream of atoms tonight!

Your attempt is simply reductionism. No one wants to reduce the properties of molecules to the properties of atoms. No one wants to reduce the properties of cells to the properties of mulecules. No one wants to reduce the properties humans to the properties of cells. As the complexity of the structure increases, its properties change. A mountain is not just a huge atom. How hard is that to understand?

 

[Hooding_Trees]

Your attempt is simply reductionism. No one wants to reduce the properties of molecules to the properties of atoms. No one wants to reduce the properties of cells to the properties of mulecules. No one wants to reduce the properties humans to the properties of cells. As the complexity of the structure increases, its properties change. A mountain is not just a huge atom. How hard is that to understand?

Yes, it seems that tonyrey could do with studying some science…

*"When units of biological material are put together, the properties of the new material are not always additive, or equal to the sum of the properties of the components. Instead, at each level, new properties and rules emerge that cannot be predicted by observations and full knowledge of the lower levels. Such properties are called emergent properties (Novikoff, 1945).

As an example of why the reductionist approach fails, consider the function of one cell within a multicellular organism. Even if we understand the cell’s function, that does not mean we fully understand the organism’s physiology. After all, the activity of each cell is affected by the activity of other cells in the tissues, organs, and organ systems within the organism. The cell is thus no longer in isolation, and its integration into a system provides that system with emergent properties (Novikoff, 1945)."*

 

[R_Daneel]

Yes, it seems that tonyrey could do with studying some science…

Yes, he could, just as quite a few others could. But there is a comfort in ignorance. They can claim that they are right and everyone else is wrong - even if it is obvious that they have no idea what they are talking about. But, then again, being convinced that the big daddy in the sky already spelled out eveything gives them an excuse not to learn.

 

[Hooding_Trees]

Yes, he could, just as quite a few others could. But there is a comfort in ignorance. They can claim that they are right and everyone else is wrong - even if it is obvious that they have no idea what they are talking about. But, then again, being convinced that the big daddy in the sky already spelled out eveything gives them an excuse not to learn.

Yes it has always amazed me the amount of people who based there religious beliefs on what are actually clearly understood natural processes that they either do not understand or are ignorant of.

 

[R_Daneel]

Yes it has always amazed me the amount of people who based there religious beliefs on what are actually clearly understood natural processes that they either do not understand or are ignorant of.

Fortunately there are many who are not ignorant. But the ignorant ones are always the loudest and the most obnoxious.

 

[tonyrey]

Fortunately there are many who are not ignorant. But the ignorant ones are always the loudest and the most obnoxious.

The loudest and the most obnoxious contributors to this forum are those who are ignorant of spiritual reality and whose obsessive hatred of religion drives them to mock and attack Christian beliefs in a futile attempt to destroy them…