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Robert_Sock
Guest
The biggest differences between make-believe play of children and the make-believe world of the adult is that children usually know that they are just pretending!
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Phalanx
Guest
I don’t know what exactly you mean by make-believe world. But i think we are pretty aware of reality. Perhaps that is why so many are depressed and got anxiety issues. A make-believe world sounds pretty awesome
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Robert_Sock
Guest
What do Los Angeles, history, marriage, Judaism, Catholicism, and government all have in common? Give-up? The answer is that, from a philosophical perspective, they are all make-believe! In themselves, they exist only in our imagination – human imagination that is easily led astray! They are a part of our collective fantasy, in our world of make-believe.
For example, there is really no Los Angeles, but only a heavily populated geographical location that we, for whatever reason, call Los Angeles. When we think about Los Angeles many things may come to mind: mental images such as its glamour, prestige, progressiveness, or greatness. Again, all these images exist within the human mind. Beyond the mere physical and spiritual qualities within a geographical area, including the physical and spiritual aspects of day-to-day events, Los Angeles is just a fantasy. Similarly, marriage is nothing more than a make-believe called a custom – a custom often involving unusually, if not bizarre, ritualistic behavior that for many help direct their much larger day-to-day fantasy. History is nothing more than human interpretation, based on past make-believe, of how our current make-believe came about. Is government real? Not really! There are many people who claim to be a part of government, but they too are caught-up in a fantasy. The purpose of their specific fantasy, to a large degree, is to keep our larger social fantasy from going astray. Government, in a sense, is a dominant fantasy that creates and enforces many of the rules within our make-believe world. However, it is not government that invented, nor that guides, our make-believe. Although human government may control bits and pieces of our make-believe world, understanding the fine intricacy and being able to predict the extreme number of interactions within the world-wide fantasy is far beyond human capability. Is there really such a thing as a church? Remember, what we often call a church building is really a collection of things put together in such a way to resemble what people have previously agreed to call a church. Are the Catholic Church and Judaism real? These things too, far more often than not, are really nothing more than a fantasy within our world of make-believe.
The biggest differences between make-believe play of children and the make-believe world of the adult is that children usually know that they are just pretending! Sure, the world we live in is real, but search deep enough into any part of it and you will surely discover that it is based on make-believe; strip away all the fantasy from this world, as if one were able, and you would see nothing but God (or the handiwork of God). God alone is Truth, and God alone is Love! As far as God is incomprehensible, we are bound to live in make-believe. But, to the degree that God reveals Himself to us, we are able to see reality. (Note that being able to see the reality of God is quite different from comprehending Him.) So, you see, there truly is a deeper underlying reality to every fantasy within our world, including the Catholic Church and Judaism, but this reality must ultimately be attributed to our Creator.
And yes, I believe that Judaism, Catholicism, and the other forms of Christianity teach the Word of God (but at varying levels of hierarchical understanding). I believe that God works through each of these religious institutions: each being a specially designed “tool” of God that is being used to bring our temporary, make-believe world into the Kingdom of God. The point here is that whenever we lose sight of God, we lose sight of Reality; whenever the reality of God is obscured within any of these religious forms, the sacred truth within them is also obscured; all that remains is fantasy within the human mind.
Can make-believe have a purpose? I believe so. Why else would God allow us to live in a fantasy-world? It is all within the plan of God to bring His children, who have wandered astray, back to salvation! Know that our fantasy-world can easily lead us into evil; but also know that it can also bring us closer to God – perhaps far closer to Him than we could have if we never experienced evil. An excellent example of this is the life of Saint Augustine, who lived a life of sinful lust until his conversion.
So come, let us accept and respect that our world is make-believe. Unlike the many others around us, however, let us worship God so that we do not drift into a dark, repulsive fantasy (or become a victim of the dark, repulsive fantasy of others); let us not become too content living in this world of make-believe, but let us build our faith so we can focus our attention on the real glory of the World to Come. Remember that it is our evil ways that are the real evil of today, and not fantasy per se. Trust that this life has a higher-ordered purpose. Think of this life on earth as a living-sacrifice; offer everything you do, and all the struggles and hardships you endure, to God as a sacrifice in recognition of His lovingkindness. Be patient and humble, choose love above all else, seek to do the will of God, and be not afraid!
Finally, people who say that Hell is merely make-believe – a mere fantasy that is a product of human imagination – are largely correct. But those who say that Hell is not real are seriously mistaken!
For example, there is really no Los Angeles, but only a heavily populated geographical location that we, for whatever reason, call Los Angeles. When we think about Los Angeles many things may come to mind: mental images such as its glamour, prestige, progressiveness, or greatness. Again, all these images exist within the human mind. Beyond the mere physical and spiritual qualities within a geographical area, including the physical and spiritual aspects of day-to-day events, Los Angeles is just a fantasy. Similarly, marriage is nothing more than a make-believe called a custom – a custom often involving unusually, if not bizarre, ritualistic behavior that for many help direct their much larger day-to-day fantasy. History is nothing more than human interpretation, based on past make-believe, of how our current make-believe came about. Is government real? Not really! There are many people who claim to be a part of government, but they too are caught-up in a fantasy. The purpose of their specific fantasy, to a large degree, is to keep our larger social fantasy from going astray. Government, in a sense, is a dominant fantasy that creates and enforces many of the rules within our make-believe world. However, it is not government that invented, nor that guides, our make-believe. Although human government may control bits and pieces of our make-believe world, understanding the fine intricacy and being able to predict the extreme number of interactions within the world-wide fantasy is far beyond human capability. Is there really such a thing as a church? Remember, what we often call a church building is really a collection of things put together in such a way to resemble what people have previously agreed to call a church. Are the Catholic Church and Judaism real? These things too, far more often than not, are really nothing more than a fantasy within our world of make-believe.
The biggest differences between make-believe play of children and the make-believe world of the adult is that children usually know that they are just pretending! Sure, the world we live in is real, but search deep enough into any part of it and you will surely discover that it is based on make-believe; strip away all the fantasy from this world, as if one were able, and you would see nothing but God (or the handiwork of God). God alone is Truth, and God alone is Love! As far as God is incomprehensible, we are bound to live in make-believe. But, to the degree that God reveals Himself to us, we are able to see reality. (Note that being able to see the reality of God is quite different from comprehending Him.) So, you see, there truly is a deeper underlying reality to every fantasy within our world, including the Catholic Church and Judaism, but this reality must ultimately be attributed to our Creator.
And yes, I believe that Judaism, Catholicism, and the other forms of Christianity teach the Word of God (but at varying levels of hierarchical understanding). I believe that God works through each of these religious institutions: each being a specially designed “tool” of God that is being used to bring our temporary, make-believe world into the Kingdom of God. The point here is that whenever we lose sight of God, we lose sight of Reality; whenever the reality of God is obscured within any of these religious forms, the sacred truth within them is also obscured; all that remains is fantasy within the human mind.
Can make-believe have a purpose? I believe so. Why else would God allow us to live in a fantasy-world? It is all within the plan of God to bring His children, who have wandered astray, back to salvation! Know that our fantasy-world can easily lead us into evil; but also know that it can also bring us closer to God – perhaps far closer to Him than we could have if we never experienced evil. An excellent example of this is the life of Saint Augustine, who lived a life of sinful lust until his conversion.
So come, let us accept and respect that our world is make-believe. Unlike the many others around us, however, let us worship God so that we do not drift into a dark, repulsive fantasy (or become a victim of the dark, repulsive fantasy of others); let us not become too content living in this world of make-believe, but let us build our faith so we can focus our attention on the real glory of the World to Come. Remember that it is our evil ways that are the real evil of today, and not fantasy per se. Trust that this life has a higher-ordered purpose. Think of this life on earth as a living-sacrifice; offer everything you do, and all the struggles and hardships you endure, to God as a sacrifice in recognition of His lovingkindness. Be patient and humble, choose love above all else, seek to do the will of God, and be not afraid!
Finally, people who say that Hell is merely make-believe – a mere fantasy that is a product of human imagination – are largely correct. But those who say that Hell is not real are seriously mistaken!
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Razanir
Guest
So… Gnosticism?
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Phil_Marinus
Guest
Might be time to Draw the curtains and let some light in....
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christofirst
Guest
I’m reading some Christian Science in there too - a little Mary Baker Eddy. I used to have lunch with a member of this group who kept trying to tell me everything is an illusion. Is that the same as make-believe?
I can understand the notion that God is the only reality, because everything else is contingent on God. But matter and spirit and even ideas are real.
I can understand the notion that God is the only reality, because everything else is contingent on God. But matter and spirit and even ideas are real.
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dshix
Guest
Looks like it.
Robert, you are denying the existence of human institution.
You say that Los Angeles does not exist, but only a “heavily populated geographical location.”
Okay. There is no such thing as a rock. There is no such thing as a human being. There is no such thing as God. There are only things which we “call” rocks, only things which we “call” human beings, and only a thing which we “call” God. Make sense?
Of course not! To make the argument that if a thing has a name, that name is not synonymous with the thing, is ridiculous. You are essentially trying to deconstruct identity, that all things have a meaning and a purpose.
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Qoeleth
Guest
You have hit upon the philosophical system of many greats sages- Protagoras, Democritus, Parmenides, Plato, Pseudo-Dionysius, Plotinus, Sankara, Berkeley, Derrida, etc.
Essentially, there is no ‘world’ in itself (or if there is, we know nothing of it in itself). Our ‘world’ is always an interpretation of experiences, perceptions, ideas, etc. To distinguish anything, even to call a ‘book’ a ‘book’ rather than a pile of dried wood pulp, or a lump of atoms, is an interpretation, of, in a sense ‘make believe’. Even to identify our ‘selves’ as individuals involves an interpretation and a conceptual construction.
With religion and philosophy, we can take control over the structure and meaning of our ‘world’. This is a good, and necessary thing- but something which must always be done provisionally and humbly.
But, the ‘really real’ is totally beyond our thoughts (even our highest religious thoughts!). This is the Beatific Vision, which is not light, not darkness, not death, not life, not this world or any other world, not existence or non-existence.
Essentially, there is no ‘world’ in itself (or if there is, we know nothing of it in itself). Our ‘world’ is always an interpretation of experiences, perceptions, ideas, etc. To distinguish anything, even to call a ‘book’ a ‘book’ rather than a pile of dried wood pulp, or a lump of atoms, is an interpretation, of, in a sense ‘make believe’. Even to identify our ‘selves’ as individuals involves an interpretation and a conceptual construction.
With religion and philosophy, we can take control over the structure and meaning of our ‘world’. This is a good, and necessary thing- but something which must always be done provisionally and humbly.
But, the ‘really real’ is totally beyond our thoughts (even our highest religious thoughts!). This is the Beatific Vision, which is not light, not darkness, not death, not life, not this world or any other world, not existence or non-existence.
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CB_Catholic
Guest
Oh for heaven’s sake. Get real.
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Ambien89
Guest
Certainly the ignorant think that explanations and descriptions via natural language carry the same weight as formal language. People operate too much on connotations and poorly formed correlations.
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Beryllos
Guest
Robert, the most meaningful things in this world are not tangible. Are love, truth, peace, and joy make-believe? Are society, family, and friendship make-believe? Are law, justice, and forgiveness make-believe? Are economy, employment, productivity, and trade make-believe? Are music, song, stories, poetry, rhythm, and dance make-believe? If so, brother, count me in. I’m buying it. I am drinking the Kool-Aid. You know why? Because God created us and placed us in this world, such as it is, to live as social, cooperative, loving, and joyful creatures.
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
Yes of course, and I think Shakespeare said it best:
“All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms.
And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper’d pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side,
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.”
That’s why it’s so important to believe in God. The true reality.
“All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms.
And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper’d pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side,
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.”
That’s why it’s so important to believe in God. The true reality.
P
Phil_Marinus
Guest
I’l Drink to that !!!
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