To what extent does chance affect our lives?

[tonyrey]

In the Pensées Pascal states: “Cleopatra’s nose, had it been shorter, the whole face of the world would have been changed” (180).

History is certainly affected by coincidences. When natural disasters occur there is no reason why some people are maimed and killed while others remain unscathed. Accidents and diseases are often the result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The world is not controlled directly by God but by natural laws which are “blind and ruthless”. So to what extent do you think chance affects our lives?

 

[valentino]

In the Pensées Pascal states: “Cleopatra’s nose, had it been shorter, the whole face of the world would have been changed” (180).

History is certainly affected by coincidences. When natural disasters occur there is no reason why some people are maimed and killed while others remain unscathed. Accidents and diseases are often the result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The world is not controlled directly by God but by natural laws which are “blind and ruthless”. So to what extent do you think chance affects our lives?

IMO one can’t say.God definitely has certain people live that have a particular mission in life which He wants carried out.Then again since God does answer prayers i believe He protects some people if they pray for His protection.God has some plan for man and it is achieved in His way.Luck is merely a human concept to explain why some people are preserved from disaster and some aren’t.Yes,you might call it luck.His way is the most important point.If we pray to be protected He won’t listen if it goes against His plan.Chrisst came into the world at the preordained time.Man had to be in a particular state(you might say of evolution)before He would come into the world.Until man was there He would not come.The Jews had their views of the way God wanted them to act in carrying out His plans.the rest of the world had their views on how to act toward the Jews.Christ came to show how the world this problem was to be solved.

 

[nespero]

I believe Jesus addressed the role of chance in our lives in the story of the Tower of Saloam (Luke 13:4). “Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Of course, Jesus wasn’t asked about chance, but whether those killed died because they had more sins than the ones who lived. Jesus said, no, they were no more and no less sinful than anyone else. That infers the only reason they died was chance – just like we will all die, if not by an accident, then by an illness or just old age. Saint and sinner alike we’re all subject to the randomness of life. However, Jesus said that only those who don’t repent will perish, meaning spiritual death, not physical death.

Having said that, I do believe that God answers prayer, and on occasions will intervene to keep us around a little longer for His purpose. Or, who knows, maybe to shorten our lives for a higher goal. But I think this is very much the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Waiting]

In the Pensées Pascal states: “Cleopatra’s nose, had it been shorter, the whole face of the world would have been changed” (180).

History is certainly affected by coincidences. When natural disasters occur there is no reason why some people are maimed and killed while others remain unscathed. Accidents and diseases are often the result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The world is not controlled directly by God but by natural laws which are “blind and ruthless”. So to what extent do you think chance affects our lives?

It’s hard to answer a question that can’t be proved, but I, for one, don’t believe in coincidences. I don’t know, and can’t explain, all the bad things that have happened to good people, but I feel that chance had very little to do with the situations. God does permit us to exercise our free will, but God’s plans are so long-ranged that we can’t put all the puzzle pieces together to understand the why and wherefore of experiences. Just stay in the grace of God and trust in His care.

 

[Robert_Sock]

It’s hard to answer a question that can’t be proved, but I, for one, don’t believe in coincidences. I don’t know, and can’t explain, all the bad things that have happened to good people, but I feel that chance had very little to do with the situations. God does permit us to exercise our free will, but God’s plans are so long-ranged that we can’t put all the puzzle pieces together to understand the why and wherefore of experiences. Just stay in the grace of God and trust in His care.

Great response! I could not have said it better!

 

[tonyrey]

IMO one can’t say.God definitely has certain people live that have a particular mission in life which He wants carried out.Then again since God does answer prayers i believe He protects some people if they pray for His protection.God has some plan for man and it is achieved in His way.Luck is merely a human concept to explain why some people are preserved from disaster and some aren’t.Yes,you might call it luck.His way is the most important point.If we pray to be protected He won’t listen if it goes against His plan.Christ came into the world at the preordained time.Man had to be in a particular state(you might say of evolution)before He would come into the world.Until man was there He would not come.The Jews had their views of the way God wanted them to act in carrying out His plans.the rest of the world had their views on how to act toward the Jews.Christ came to show how the world this problem was to be solved.

I agree with all that you say, Valentino - apart from chance or luck or coincidence being merely a human concept - but you are definitely right about “His way is the most important point.”

 

[tonyrey]

I believe Jesus addressed the role of chance in our lives in the story of the Tower of Saloam (Luke 13:4). “Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Of course, Jesus wasn’t asked about chance, but whether those killed died because they had more sins than the ones who lived. Jesus said, no, they were no more and no less sinful than anyone else. That infers the only reason they died was chance – just like we will all die, if not by an accident, then by an illness or just old age. Saint and sinner alike we’re all subject to the randomness of life. However, Jesus said that only those who don’t repent will perish, meaning spiritual death, not physical death.

Having said that, I do believe that God answers prayer, and on occasions will intervene to keep us around a little longer for His purpose. Or, who knows, maybe to shorten our lives for a higher goal. But I think this is very much the exception rather than the rule.

“Saint and sinner alike we’re all subject to the randomness of life” sums it up in a nutshell, nespero. But you are right to add that God does intervene. I would add that everything occurs with the framework of Design because purpose is at the very heart of life.

 

[tonyrey]

It’s hard to answer a question that can’t be proved, but I, for one, don’t believe in coincidences.

If a tile falls off a roof and kills some one does God cause it to happen?

I don’t know, and can’t explain, all the bad things that have happened to good people, but I feel that chance had very little to do with the situations.

In that case God is** directly** responsible for every disaster…

 

[mcteague]

Anyone with even a modest education in mathematics will recognize the enormous influence of probability and statistics in our lives. It can not really even be debated.
However, this does not mean that we lack agency. Nor should it be used after the fact to excuse irresponsibility. And let us also note, although it should be obvious, that right and wrong are not probabilistic

 

[djd83]

According to the Bible, God causes most everything…

He causes blindness (Exodus)…
He sends storms (Job, I think)…
He permit the devil to kill people (also Job)…
In Romans, Paul says God is the potter, and it is his choice as to what becomes of the pottery (creation)…

Ah… I guess the point is: “May your will be done.”

God bless!

 

[tonyrey]

According to the Bible, God causes most everything…

He causes blindness (Exodus)…
He sends storms (Job, I think)…
He permit the devil to kill people (also Job)…
In Romans, Paul says God is the potter, and it is his choice as to what becomes of the pottery (creation)…

Ah… I guess the point is: “May your will be done.”

God bless!

According to Jesus man causes many things - and it is our choice what becomes of us. He said that our heavenly Father knows when a sparrow falls to the ground not that He causes it to fall. God does not cause disasters; they are the result of the laws of nature.

 

[tonyrey]

Anyone with even a modest education in mathematics will recognize the enormous influence of probability and statistics in our lives. It can not really even be debated.
However, this does not mean that we lack agency. Nor should it be used after the fact to excuse irresponsibility. And let us also note, although it should be obvious, that right and wrong are not probabilistic

An excellent point!

 

[Waiting]

Great response! I could not have said it better!

Thank you. I wish I had answers to help those who suffer and don’t know why they are the victims, but I do know that if you give your sufferings to God, He will use them for good. When we see Him, I’m confident that He’ll show us how He used them.

 

[Qoeleth]

IMO one can’t say.God definitely has certain people live that have a particular mission in life which He wants carried out.Then again since God does answer prayers i believe He protects some people if they pray for His protection.God has some plan for man and it is achieved in His way.Luck is merely a human concept to explain why some people are preserved from disaster and some aren’t.Yes,you might call it luck.His way is the most important point.If we pray to be protected He won’t listen if it goes against His plan.Chrisst came into the world at the preordained time.Man had to be in a particular state(you might say of evolution)before He would come into the world.Until man was there He would not come.The Jews had their views of the way God wanted them to act in carrying out His plans.the rest of the world had their views on how to act toward the Jews.Christ came to show how the world this problem was to be solved.

Here are two Scripture which provide an answer to the question:
“All are subject to time and mischance.” (Qo 9:11)
“The whole world lies under the power of the Evil One.” (1 Jn 5:19)

The abitrary nature of the world (i.e. its injustice) is a symptom of its falleness, and its subjection to the Ruler of this World, Satan (Jn 12:31). Hence:
“Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness and dies by chance” (Jean-Paul Sartre)

But by following the Law and example of Christ, we reject this diabolical game of chance, and treat its outcomes with indifference, as long as we remain in the God who is Love.

 

[tonyrey]

Thank you. I wish I had answers to help those who suffer and don’t know why they are the victims, but I do know that if you give your sufferings to God, He will use them for good. When we see Him, I’m confident that He’ll show us how He used them.

You can point out that some of us are bound to suffer more than others because we are all exposed to the vicissitudes of life, or, as Hamlet said, “the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune”. But, as you imply, our suffering unites us to Jesus who suffered for us…

 

[Waiting]

You can point out that some of us are bound to suffer more than others because we are all exposed to the vicissitudes of life, or, as Hamlet said, “the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune”. But, as you imply, our suffering unites us to Jesus who suffered for us…

Very true. In life we’re all going to suffer a good deal anyway, so why not make it meaningful by giving it to the Lord to use for some good? Whether by chance or by design, nothing can happen to us that can’t in some way bring about some good.

 

[tonyrey]

You can point out that some of us are bound to suffer more than others because we are all exposed to the vicissitudes of life, or, as Hamlet said, “the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune”. But, as you imply, our suffering unites us to Jesus who suffered for us…

It is amazing to think we can transform meaningless events into meaningful ones and a curse into a blessing. That in itself reflects our divine origin!

 

[dostoyevskyfan]

“God does not roll dice” -Einstein
God in the O.T. Instructs some of his people to roll dice to distribute wealth and property.

Roman soldiers roll dice to distribute the clothes of Jesus.
The CCC allows for moderate gambling.
When u buy a stock, house, car, or open a business you are engaging in a form of gambling.
Discuss.

 

[tonyrey]

“God does not roll dice” -Einstein
God in the O.T. Instructs some of his people to roll dice to distribute wealth and property.

Roman soldiers roll dice to distribute the clothes of Jesus.
The CCC allows for moderate gambling.
When u buy a stock, house, car, or open a business you are engaging in a form of gambling.
Discuss.

Within certain limits we can take the element of chance into account and even make a profit out of it! :hey_bud: We tend to regard it as an enemy but belief in God implies that Chance does not rule supreme. It has no place in the spiritual life… :getholy:

 

[Jvrlns]

I don’t believe in chance, God created everything with a master plan in mind, so everything happens for a reason, from the passenger who gets a speck of dust in the eye blinding him momentarily causing him to miss the bus that will have a head on collision moments later killing all the passengers, to the passengers on the bus. I don’t think catholic theology allows for chance. God allows evil because he can’t violate our free will but doesn’t will evil for anybody. In the end all the pieces of the puzzle will fall into the right places for everybody’s benefit. God is a loving God who cares for us infinitely more than we care for ourselves.