Tobit & St. Raphael

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If Tobit is a work of fiction, does that mean that St. Raphael is not a real archangel? What do we know of this angel outside of this story?

Thank you.
 
adstrinity said:
If Tobit is a work of fiction, does that mean that St. Raphael is not a real archangel? What do we know of this angel outside of this story?

Thank you.
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I’m not sure myself. Maybe we need to ask a Bible scholar. Personally, Tobit has always been one of my favorite books of the Old Testament. There is just something about it that I’ve always loved. 😃
 
I’ve heard thought like that about Judith but not Tobit. Still I imagine it would make St. Raphael much like St. Christopher.
 
adstrinity said:
If Tobit is a work of fiction, does that mean that St. Raphael is not a real archangel? What do we know of this angel outside of this story?

Thank you.
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From where did you get this notion that Tobit is a work of fiction? Please show me the source.
 
Tobit is not a work of fiction…so St. Raphael is real!🙂
i think that settled everything
 
In part, the intro in the aforementioned Bible reads,"The inspired author of the book used the literary form of religious novel (as in Jonah and Judith) for the purpose of instruction and edification. There may have been a historical nucleus around which the story was composed, but this possibility has nothing to do with the teaching of the book. The seemingly historical data-names of kings, cities, etc.-are used merely as vivid details to create interest and charm.Although the Book of Tobit is usually listed with the historical books, it more correctly stands midway between them and the wisdom literature. It contains numerous maxims like those found in the wisdom books (cf Tobit 4:3-19, 21; 12:6-10; 14:7, 9) as well as the customary sapiential themes: fidelity to the law, the intercessory function of angels, piety toward parents, the purity of marriage, reverence for the dead, and the value of almsgiving, prayer, and fasting. The book makes Tobit a relative of Ahiqar, a hero of ancient Near Eastern folklore."For the full introduction, please go here
 
Tobit is believed by some to be an historical-fictional work written for a didactic purpose. However, that is not close to being universally accepted by scholars. Warren Carroll, in my opinion the best Church historian of the last 50 years, contends very strongly that Tobit is an historical book, plain and simple. Much more like Ruth than Judith. Caroll says there is no good reason at all to doubt the historical nature of the book.
 
He has been answering prayers for hundreds of years so obviously he is in heaven.
 
JDHallKY said:
Tobit is believed by some to be an historical-fictional work written for a didactic purpose. However, that is not close to being universally accepted by scholars. Warren Carroll, in my opinion the best Church historian of the last 50 years, contends very strongly that Tobit is an historical book, plain and simple. Much more like Ruth than Judith. Caroll says there is no good reason at all to doubt the historical nature of the book.
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But, the Bible has an Nihil Obstat & Imprimatur. Do you have a link or book recomendation for Warren Carroll? I am interested in what he has to say. I rather like St. Raphael and this Book, but, IF it is fiction, then…where does that leave the angel? I can accept the story and the morals and message, but, where does that leave the angel?
 
There has been no infallible declaration, as far as I know, that St. Raphael is a real angel. HOWEVER, the Catholic faith is not limited to “formal declarations”. (These are only necessary to clarify some important point of contention or to define a doctrine necessary for salvation). Our faith is drawn from a rich and living body of Tradition which includes Sacred Scripture, the Fathers, the lives and writings of the saints, the liturgy, and of course the living Magisterium. St. Raphael is honored and invoked in our Tradition and in the lives of Catholics everywhere. There is no need for an “infallible declaration” as the mind of the Church is clear: St. Raphael is real and alive :).

St. Raphael tells us that he is one of the “seven angels who stands before God interceding for the saints”. In the Book of Revelation St. John the Apostle tells us that he saw the “seven spirits of God” before the throne, and in chapter 8 records an angel offering up the prayers of the saints. This is a clear reference to and affirmation of the tradition in Tobit of the “seven angels” (including Sts. Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael).
 
adstrinity said:
But, the Bible has an Nihil Obstat & Imprimatur. Do you have a link or book recomendation for Warren Carroll? I am interested in what he has to say. I rather like St. Raphael and this Book, but, IF it is fiction, then…where does that leave the angel? I can accept the story and the morals and message, but, where does that leave the angel?
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The notes and commentary may have a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, but those are just declarations that they are free from doctrinal or moral error, and permission for the book to be published. They do not guarantee that all of the scholarly conclusions drawn from biblical criticism are 100% correct.

If you enjoy Church history, you can’t do better than Warren Carroll. Here is the first book in his History of Christendom series, which is the one that has a brief discussion of Tobit. His works are often weighty volumes, but very informative and a joy to read.
 
adstrinity said:
If Tobit is a work of fiction, does that mean that St. Raphael is not a real archangel? What do we know of this angel outside of this story?

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Gone With the Wind is a work of fiction. Does that mean Ulysses S. Grant is not a real General?
 
mercygate said:
Gone With the Wind is a work of fiction. Does that mean Ulysses S. Grant is not a real General?
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But, we have other documentation about what President Grant has done!!

jdf, JDHallKY – Thank you.
 
Then I would suggest that you study the miracles that have been attributed to St. Raphael. I myself have one. I prayed at his church and when I walked in the only time at his church and prayed all 3 wishes were granted in 3 consecutive years.

Then check out other ones and see if anything worthy in your sight pops up.👍
 
RedSoxFan said:
Then I would suggest that you study the miracles that have been attributed to St. Raphael. I myself have one. I prayed at his church and when I walked in the only time at his church and prayed all 3 wishes were granted in 3 consecutive years.

Then check out other ones and see if anything worthy in your sight pops up.👍
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Hi Red Sox Fan 👋 – I think that’s great! It’s also more than enough evidence for me that he must be a real angel.

Kathy
 
adstrinity said:
But, we have other documentation about what President Grant has done!!

jdf, JDHallKY – Thank you.
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That doesn’t address the point. Because something is mentioned in a fictional work does not demonstrate that the thing mentioned is an invention.
 
mercygate said:
That doesn’t address the point. Because something is mentioned in a fictional work does not demonstrate that the thing mentioned is an invention.
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I agree, but, how are we to take it if we have proof of nothing else?
 
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