Today's Mass readings (11-22) / End times

[distracted]

November 22, 2010
Memorial of Saint Cecilia, virgin and martyr

Reading 1

Rv 14:1-3, 4b-5

I, John, looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion,
and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand
who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
I heard a sound from Heaven
like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder.
The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
They were singing what seemed to be a new hymn before the throne,
before the four living creatures and the elders.
No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand
who had been ransomed from the earth.
These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.
They have been ransomed as the first fruits
of the human race for God and the Lamb.
On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished.

**Ps 24:1bc-2, 3-4ab, 5-6Responsorial PsalmR. (see 6) **

Lord, this is the people that longs to see your face.
The LORD’s are the earth and its fullness;
the world and those who dwell in it.
For he founded it upon the seas
and established it upon the rivers.
R. Lord, this is the people that longs to see your face.
Who can ascend the mountain of the LORD?
or who may stand in his holy place?
He whose hands are sinless, whose heart is clean,
who desires not what is vain.
R. Lord, this is the people that longs to see your face.
He shall receive a blessing from the LORD,
a reward from God his savior.
Such is the race that seeks for him,
that seeks the face of the God of Jacob.
R. Lord, this is the people that longs to see your face.

Lk 21:1-4Gospel

When Jesus looked up he saw some wealthy people
putting their offerings into the treasury
and he noticed a poor widow putting in two small coins.
He said, “I tell you truly,
this poor widow put in more than all the rest;
for those others have all made offerings from their surplus wealth,
but she, from her poverty, has offered her whole livelihood.”

---

**I’m not big on interpreting Revelation, but maybe someone here is? All i know is i don’t believe in the Rapture & the Church doesn’t teach that kind of thing… If you believe in the Rapture you are saying that Jesus is coming to Earth 3 times but the Bible says he is only coming twice

But i don’t really want to get into all the interpretations that are out there cuz they all disagree & i can’t figure out which one is the right one… except that i trust what the RCC teaches about it (which, as far as i can tell isn’t a whole lot???)

Anyway the widow gives most of what she has.

i have to confess i probably don’t give as much as i should…

which reminds me: Is there a good way to find a good charity?? I mean is there some list of charities that can be trusted to really give $$ to what they say they’re giving it to?? I get so many requests for donations in the mail & i sometimes think while reading one of these sob-story requests (sorry, just being honest ) “How do i know this isn’t some con job… This organization is pretending to be Catholic & all that??”**

Hmmm…*

 

[JonathonofOhio]

**I, John, looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion,
**

*Psalm 24 asks who is worthy to ascend to the Mountain of the Lord, which is God’s dwelling place, heaven. The Lamb is Jesus. Therefore, John is saying that the Lamb has ascended to the Lord.
*

and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

When He ascended He took with Him 144,000, but this number is not to be taken literally. This number is used in Chapter 7, and symbolizes a great number of people from the 12 tribes of Israel. The number 12 is used to denote perfection of a governing body, and John, referencing the Psalms demonstrates that 12,000 x 12 is a perfection of the ‘heavenly court’ during the times of judgement.

**I heard a sound from Heaven
like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder.
The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
They were singing what seemed to be a new hymn before the throne,
before the four living creatures and the elders.
**

The New Song is a reference to Psalm 96. If you read Psalm 96 you will understand what John is getting across. The four living creatures are the 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John).

**No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand
who had been ransomed from the earth.
These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.
They have been ransomed as the first fruits
of the human race for God and the Lamb.
On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished.
**

*These were the first to take part in the resurrection, they were rescued by God who brought them up into heaven. They are people who died under the Law and kept the commandments, but were unable to enter Heaven until Jesus came and Ascended into heaven and brought them up.
*

---

I would recommend Catholic Charities. They actually use the money. They helped me out once when I was in need.

 

[distracted]

**I, John, looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion,
**

*Psalm 24 asks who is worthy to ascend to the Mountain of the Lord, which is God’s dwelling place, heaven. The Lamb is Jesus. Therefore, John is saying that the Lamb has ascended to the Lord.
*

and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

When He ascended He took with Him 144,000, but this number is not to be taken literally. This number is used in Chapter 7, and symbolizes a great number of people from the 12 tribes of Israel. The number 12 is used to denote perfection of a governing body, and John, referencing the Psalms demonstrates that 12,000 x 12 is a perfection of the ‘heavenly court’ during the times of judgement.

**I heard a sound from Heaven
like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder.
The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
They were singing what seemed to be a new hymn before the throne,
before the four living creatures and the elders.
**

The New Song is a reference to Psalm 96. If you read Psalm 96 you will understand what John is getting across. The four living creatures are the 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John).

**No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand
who had been ransomed from the earth.
These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.
They have been ransomed as the first fruits
of the human race for God and the Lamb.
On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished.
**

*These were the first to take part in the resurrection, they were rescued by God who brought them up into heaven. They are people who died under the Law and kept the commandments, but were unable to enter Heaven until Jesus came and Ascended into heaven and brought them up.
*

---

I would recommend Catholic Charities. They actually use the money. They helped me out once when I was in need.

but it wasn’t literally 144,000… so goes (i think) the Catholic interpretation

 

[JonathonofOhio]

but it wasn’t literally 144,000… so goes (i think) the Catholic interpretation

I don’t think there is an OFFICIAL call on that, but I would say that it’s common sense to figure that if John was using imagery and symbolism throughout his work, then we cannot take one number literally out of a sea of imagery and symbolism…especially when we know that in Jewish numerology the numbers 12 and 1,000 had meanings other than their literal values.

 

[distracted]

I don’t think there is an OFFICIAL call on that, but I would say that it’s common sense to figure that if John was using imagery and symbolism throughout his work, then we cannot take one number literally out of a sea of imagery and symbolism…especially when we know that in Jewish numerology the numbers 12 and 1,000 had meanings other than their literal values.

i know it couldn’t be literal cuz … think of all the bzillions of persons who hav lived on Planet Earth… billions & billions…

 

[Jcena007]

As for astrology, it, too, denies God and his sovereignty over mankind. Moreover, it denies man’s own free will. According to astrology, man is not a free moral agent; every aspect of his life is governed by the position of the stars and planets, so that, in substance, man is a mere robot. But man was made in God’s image and likeness. He has a will of his own. He can choose what course he wants to take and can thus determine his own destiny.​

Property Management Rock Hill
Motorhome Storage

 

[Huiou_Theou]

…**
like the sound of rushing water or a loud peal of thunder.
The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
They were singing what seemed to be a new hymn before the throne,
before the four living creatures and the elders.**
**No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand
who had been ransomed from the earth.
These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes.
They have been ransomed as the first fruits
of the human race for God and the Lamb.
On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished.
**

The Douay translation is a bit different, and checking the Greek – Some extra details are found there.

Revel 14:1 And I beheld: and lo a Lamb stood upon mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty-four thousand, having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.
Revel 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the noise of many waters and as the voice of great thunder. And the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers, harping on their harps.
Revel 14:3 And they sung as it were a new canticle, before the throne and before the four living creatures and the ancients: and no man could say the canticle, but those hundred forty-four thousand who were purchased from the earth.
Revel 14:4 These are they who were not defiled with women: for they are virgins. These follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
Revel 14:5 And in their mouth there was found no lie: for they are without spot before the throne of God.
Revel 14:6 And I saw another angel flying through the midst of heaven, having the eternal gospel, to preach unto them that sit upon the earth and over every nation and tribe and tongue and people:

Psalm 14, like Psalm 24 asks who will dwell on God’s holy hill Sion, and talks about the lips of these men and their unblemished existence. Also Psalm 49 which speaks of Sion, also talks about the fire and storm that accompanies God’s coming – and speaks of the opposite – the sinners who commit adultury, lie, and steal.
In the DR it talks about them being “virgin” here in Revelation, and although I haven’t checked the originals – that seems appropriate. Much like the priesthood is celebate today, enuchs for the Kingdom of God.

The four living creatures are first and foremost – the seraphim which are above the cherubim below. They are the angels which cry out Holy, Holy, Holy. The cherubim below are what God’s throne rides on when he travels – and the altar of sacrifice is always considered to be below it. In the book of Ezekiel, the relationship of Cherubim to the hurricane, whirlwind, storm, and thunder are made very clear.

So, the imagery we have is that which goes on above while mass (or holy mysteries) go on below. At the mass, we hear “let your angel take this sacrifice to your altar in heaven”. It is as if we are directly below the scene being described in Revelation.

The 24 elders (priests) refer to King David assigning 24 lines of high priests/underpriests to serve before the altar at the temple.

Often people will associate that with the 12 apostles, and 12 tribes of Israel thinking that the old testament only had 12, and the new another 12 – but the old already had the complete 24.

The new testament speculatively fits in this based on Jesus giving to the 12 apostles thrones in heaven from which to rule for eternity; which he promised in the garden before his crucifixion. So that one has to wonder at the identity of the priests who would be considered worthy enough to be in the 24 elders immediately before the throne. These are to rule under Jesus, all the tribes of the world forever.

Notice, the 144,000 people are the “first friuts”; which doesn’t mean they are the whole of those in heaven. Rather, first fruits refers to the best of kind, or the sweetness of the first birth. They are the best of quality.