Today's Mass Readings (concerning Once-saved always-saved?)

[distracted]

**Ephesians 2:12-22: **

Brothers and Sisters: You were at that time without Christ, allienated from the community of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the Blood of Christ. For he is our peace, he made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person in place of the two, ] thus establishing peace, and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the Cross, putting that enmity to death by it. He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near, for through him we both have access in one Spriit to the Father. So then, you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord; in him you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. / Psalm 85: the Lord spaks of peace to his people…

St. Luke 12:35-38:

Jesus said to his disciples: “Gird your loins and light your lamps and be like servants who await their master’s return from a wedding, ready to open immeditely when he comes and knocks. Blessed are those servants whom the master finds vigilant on his arrival. Amen, i say to you, he will gird himself, have them recline at table, and proceed to wait on them. And should he come in the second or third watch and find them prepared in this way, blessed are those servants.”

i have to admit i dont’ understand that first underlined passage… but i think i understand the part about us being “built”…

We ARE being built… meaning that salvation is not a one-time event but an on-going process (that goes on after death in Purgatory if not completed here on Earth)… In other words, we are not Once-saved-always-saved…

 

[Ethan_Enoch]

I think the key word in this verse is “together”; he is talking about a collective experience. The “you” is plural but “dwelling place” singular, so, we are all being built together into a dwelling place of God. I would think this is probably about the Church, not individuals.

However, even if it were about individuals, it would not disprove Perseverance. We all believe that God is continually at work in our lives, transforming us by the renewing of our minds. That He has not yet finished what He is doing in us does not mean that He is going to take away what He has already done.

There’s nothing in this passage that suggests losing our salvation.

 

[Church_Militant]

We ARE being

built… meaning that salvation is not a one-time event but an on-going process (that goes on after death in Purgatory if not completed here on Earth)… In other words, we are not Once-saved-always-saved.Not bad Distracted, but though I fully agree with you about the ongoing process of salvation and not a one-time event, I have a couple of problems with some of this.

It’s pretty iffy to say that salvation goes on after death in Purgatory because the fact is that someone in Purgatory has already been judged and is fully saved. I generally think of it as washing up and getting ready for that wedding supper of the Lamb of God, y’know? This goes along with the Gospel parable from the other day where the King tosses out the man without a wedding garment. Same idea…nothing unclean enters Heaven.

I do think that, though I see where you are coming from about OSAS in that you are pointing out that failure to persevere can occur anywhere along the way, I wouldn’t use it as a proof text because there are better ones that are more clear.

For example: Revelation 3:5 He that shall overcome, shall thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

In this case, it’s clear that your name has to be IN the book of life to begin with before it could be blotted out.

Another excellent example would be the parable of the Sower and the Seed in Mark 4 and Luke 8.
I hope that helps somewhat.

However, even if it were about individuals, it would not disprove Perseverance. **We all believe that God is continually at work in our lives, transforming us by the renewing of our minds. That He has not yet finished what He is doing in us does not mean that He is going to take away what He has already done. **

There’s nothing in this passage that suggests losing our salvation.As I pointed out, it is weak in that sense, though the process vs single event theology is certainly there as Distracted rightly points out.

However, I do think that the other passages that I pointed out, along with others such as Matthew 7:16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. and Matthew 25:31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in: 36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me. 41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. 46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

These do teach the conditional nature of our salvation and that it can be forfeited.

One thing, Catholics do not believe that God ever takes away our salvation, but that by rejecting his love and call to repentance, confession and reconciliation, we forfeit it by our own will.

I know that I have heard some n-Cs say, “Well he wasn’t saved to begin with…” but that just doesn’t line up with the New Testament.

Hopefully, this helps clarify this for you a bit more.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[distracted]

It’s pretty iffy to say that salvation goes on after death in Purgatory because the fact is that someone in Purgatory has already been judged and is fully saved. i consider a person “fully saved” who is Heaven… souls in Purgatory still hve an attachment to sin… and are separated from God so i don’t consider that full salvation… but maybe it is just a matter of semantics… In any case, thanks so much for all the sciptures that disprove OSAS. I knew them already but many here may not know all of them…

the scary thing isthat we humans are so frail in the w ay our minds work & we just don’t know the truth about God and sanctification and all that unless it is revealed to us by God (through Christ)… so those who think we don’t need a divine Church founded by Christ and perpetuated by Him… well, they are fooling themselves…

In this case, it’s clear that your name has to be IN the book of life to begin with before it could be blotted out.

 

[mackbrislawn]

These do teach the conditional nature of our salvation and that it can be forfeited.

One thing, Catholics do not believe that God ever takes away our salvation, but that by rejecting his love and call to repentance, confession and reconciliation, we forfeit it by our own will.

I know that I have heard some n-Cs say, “Well he wasn’t saved to begin with…” but that just doesn’t line up with the New Testament.

Hopefully, this helps clarify this for you a bit more.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

I agree.

The way I see it is that we have Christian freedom, the freedom of Children of God as opposed to that of slaves. When a slave leaves, they go and drag him back, but when a child leaves, because he is a son, he is free to go. As in the story of the Prodigal Son.

When we become “saved” (I’ll use that term) we are written into the book of Life and are secure in the arms of our Heavenly Father, upon whom we can absolutely trust. But, if for whatever reason we want to leave, He will let us, because we are children and not slaves.

Now, why we should want to leave, I don’t know. But that is the nature of sin.

 

[Church_Militant]

I agree.

The way I see it is that we have Christian freedom, the freedom of Children of God as opposed to that of slaves. When a slave leaves, they go and drag him back, but when a child leaves, because he is a son, he is free to go. As in the story of the Prodigal Son.

When we become “saved” (I’ll use that term) we are written into the book of Life and are secure in the arms of our Heavenly Father, upon whom we can absolutely trust. But, if for whatever reason we want to leave, He will let us, because we are children and not slaves.

Now, why we should want to leave, I don’t know. But that is the nature of sin.

A good point.

 

[distracted]

INow, why we should want to leave, I don’t know. But that is the nature of sin.

we want to leave because some sin or another looks better than staying with God (Christ)… Once we suffer the consequences of our sin(s) we will want to come back… but then again… some get caught up in a sinful life & never really make it back… or if they do, they have a lot of expiating to do…

God doesn’t tel us not to sin because he wants to be a tyrant… and wants us to suffer (do without some pleasure) and love only Him… but becaue he loves us so much… & knows what’s best for us and how much sin destroys us (and those with whom we commit it… )

It seems some don’t look at it that way… they don’t look at it like they would look at the consequences of… say, crossing an L.A. highway during rush hour… They wouldn’t do THAT but they don’t seem to mind doing that kind of dangerous thing with their souls…

Either that or they are just ignorant… like i used to be…

Anyway… i guess i am digressing…

God bless.

 

[Ruthie]

Distracted, you say you didn’t understand this:

“…that he might create in himself one new person in place of the two.”

I believe this refers to the Jews and the Gentiles, especially when you relate it to the first line of the reading.

God bless us all,

Ruthie

 

[distracted]

Distracted, you say you didn’t understand this:

“…that he might create in himself one new person in place of the two.”

I believe this refers to the Jews and the Gentiles, especially when you relate it to the first line of the reading.

God bless us all,

Ruthie

thanks… Not sure why you think so… but you are probably right…

 

[justasking4]

If OSAS is not true then what do we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus taught about His true followers the following:
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

How could someone overcome the power of Christ and put a person again under condemnation?

Secondly, when a person comes to Christ he is a new creation.

“Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come”. 2 Cor 5:17

If a person somehow loses his salvation by sinning does that mean he goes from a state of new creation to fallen again repents and a new creation again? Does the church teach that you can go through life saved-unsaved multiple times?

 

[distracted]

If OSAS is not true then what do we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus taught about His true followers the following:
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

If a person is following Christ, he or she will not reject Christ’s Church… this is the way we “hear his voice”… His voice speaks through his Church… His ONE Church… salvation bomes through that Church… and if one is saved “outside the Church” it is only beause one believes as the Church teaches… (with or without realizing it…)

28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

no ONe… meaning no human or demonic being… But SIn can and does … not so much snatch them from his hands… but temporarily… makes us feel we are out of his hands… and in a way we are… depending on the gravity of the sin… Even sin cannot take us away from him if we are whole-heartedly committed… and just “fall into sin” without full intention of commiting it…

29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Again… Notice it doesn’t say that SIN cannot…

Secondly, when a person comes to Christ he is a new creation.

“Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come”. 2 Cor 5:17

right… and if one is truly “in Christ” he will not see the value of continuing to sin… He will see how awful sin is… I did not see the awfulness of sin until i came back to Christ’s true Church…

Does the church teach that you can go through life saved-unsaved multiple times?

Well… i don’t know, officially, waht the Church (in writign) says about this kind of thing… but i know from experience that i have been WITH God and and then i have sinned and bee separated from Him… When i am separated… I feel it in a HUGE way… and it is HEll… even after i repent… It is called suffering the consequences of sin… the only way thorugh this kind of thing is to pray and pray and pray and do good things and go to Mass and go to confession… and just exorcize all that… “icky-ness”…

God bless…

 

[Reformed]

**Ephesians 2:12-22: **

We ARE being built… meaning that salvation is not a one-time event but an on-going process (that goes on after death in Purgatory if not completed here on Earth)… In other words, we are not Once-saved-always-saved…

I think all informed Protestants agree that salvation is a process of past, present, and future tenses. However, the dispute and disvision has to do with past tense in regards to the doctrine of justification. I’m not sure how a Roman Catholic can talk about the past tense of salvation with Roman Catholic theology. Actually, Paul uses the past tense quite a bit in describing salvation and have already been justified. Thanks for looking to the Scriptures for answers. Just look a little closer.

Romans 5

Peace with God Through Faith

5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we [1] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith [2] into this grace in which we stand, and we [3] rejoice [4] in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

 

[distracted]

I Actually, Paul uses the past tense quite a bit in describing salvation and have already been justified. Thanks for looking to the Scriptures for answers. Just look a little closer.

Romans 5

Peace with God Through Faith

5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we [1] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith [2] into this grace in which we stand, and we [3] rejoice [4] in hope of the glory of God. This passage says nothing about OSAS one way or the other… It does NOT say that you cannot lose your salvation trhough sin (mortal sin, that is). Mortal sin is defined as a sin that is committed knowing full well that it is a serious sin and with no “mitigating” factors (duress, etc…)… Just because someone “has been saved” does not mean he cannot lose what he has had… and he can through sin… there’s no way around that… I mean: Are you human? Do you admit to knowing anything at all abot the consequences of sin - how it ruins your close-ness with Christ??? I don’t get why you Protestants argue about this so MUCH!!

3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

Again… doesn’t say you can’t lose that reconciliation…
In fact, that is waht confession in the Catholic Church is called: Reconciliation…

Thanks for looking to the scirptures… just look a little closer…

God bless…

 

[justasking4]

distracted;4330756]
Originally Posted by justasking4
If OSAS is not true then what do we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus taught about His true followers the following:
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

distracted
If a person is following Christ, he or she will not reject Christ’s Church… this is the way we “hear his voice”… His voice speaks through his Church… His ONE Church…

Christ first speaks through the Scriptures and the church if it is speaking for Christ must speak what Christ taught. This is absolutely important since the church is not infallible and has and can err. That’s why the inspired-inerrant Word of God must take first place in matters of importance. All human teachers and institutions are to be under the authority of the Scriptures. We must not just accept all that a church may teach without first comparing that teaching to the Scriptures otherwise you will find yourself following the doctrines of men.

salvation bomes through that Church…

Not so. Salvation is first and foremost in Christ Himself. Belonging or being a member of a church does not grant salvation. Salvation can only be done in us when the Spirit of Christ is in uinion with our Spirit. Romans 8:9 is clear about this when Paul writes: However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

and if one is saved “outside the Church” it is only beause one believes as the Church teaches… (with or without realizing it…)

Again, this is not NT teaching. Acts 4:12 addresses this where it says: “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

Salvation is in the God-man the Lord Jesus Christ and not in a church. The church has another function i.e. to build up believers.

Quote:justasking4
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

distracted
no ONe… meaning no human or demonic being… But SIn can and does … not so much snatch them from his hands… but temporarily… makes us feel we are out of his hands… and in a way we are… depending on the gravity of the sin… Even sin cannot take us away from him if we are whole-heartedly committed… and just “fall into sin” without full intention of commiting it…

The sin issue was dealt with at the cross. Colossians 2:13-14 makes this staggering claim and promise to us where it says:
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

This why not even sin can separate us from Christ since He has already defeated it at the cross… Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift! 2 Cor 9:15

 

[distracted]

Christ first speaks through the Scriptures and the church if it is speaking for Christ must speak what Christ taught.

To say that the Church Christ founded teaches error is to say that Christ did not keep his promise (that the gates of Hell would not prevail againt His Church - as per st. Mt 16:18).

Is that what you are saying - that Christ can’t keep his promises???

This is absolutely important since the church is not infallible

You should be careful what you say about Christ’s Church… He is your judge, you know…

and has and can err.

then you are saying that Christ lied to us…

That’s why the inspired-inerrant Word of God must take first place in matters of importance.

Jesus did not promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail against a book… but the CHURCH!!!

All human teachers and institutions are to be under the authority of the Scriptures.

We are to be under the authority of Jesus Christ… and His representatives…

do you believe everyting the Bible teaches?? Then you must believe where Paul said to “be imitators of me…” St. Paul was one of Christ’s representatives. Jesus said (concerning the priests): Do as they say, not as they do…

not just accept all that a church may teach without first comparing that teaching to the Scriptures otherwise you will find yourself following the doctrines of men.

You make me appreciate all over again… having a Church i can trust… I pity those who do not…

May you find what Jesus desires you to find…

Not so. Salvation is first and foremost in Christ Himself.

You cannot be Christ the way God desires if you are not in His one Church…

Belonging or being a member of a church does not grant salvation.

No, but the Church was given power to show the way to salvation… and man was not capable of doing that on his own… If he had been, Jesus would NOT have needed to come toEarth…

when Paul writes:

Oh, so you do claim to believe in what St. paul said??

. But ]if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

So true… and no good Catholic would disagree…

But the Spriit of Christ comes through His Church…

 

[Callin]

If OSAS is not true then what do we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus taught about His true followers the following:
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

Right, the people whom Jesus is referring to are those who follow him. What if someone once was, but is no longer? Is that person still following Jesus? Is Jesus still referring to them here?

28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Can a person snatch or seize him/herself out of something?

If yes, send me the video.

If no, then that means Jesus wasn’t including the actual person when he mentioned people being able to snatch. Can a person choose to leave God? Unless he can snatch himself out, this passage does not say “no.” Nobody can take me away from God, except myself if I choose not to follow Him.

 

[tGette]

I was once saved, then I stopped believing in God. Wonder what God thought of that? (I know…certain believers will say then that I was never saved in the first place.)

This thread made me think…like I don’t do that enough.

When you think about it, we have all be once saved and we are always saved. This is what Jesus did on the cross. It is whether we want that salvation or not. More precisely, Jesus WANTS to save us with what He did on the cross for us. Our death is not enough to save us from sin, it is His death which saves us from sin.

The crucifixion must take with it all that Jesus taught us! The crucifixion and resurrection were ratification for the Gospel message He preached. His words would have not meant as much if He had not rose from the dead.

For example:
A married couple is going through turmoil, but they do a lot of counseling, etc. and they save their marriage. Does that mean the marriage is still going to last forever? (rhetorical question!)

So, to live like Christ it requires works. REQUIRES! We must mimic His life in a sense:
We must accept what HE did on the cross and that requires a lot.
It requires that we must carry our crosses (works)
It requires that we must crucified, aka…die also to this world (works)
It requires that we must rise to new life with Christ in us (works)
The only part of Jesus life we cannot mimic on our own is His ascension into Heaven.

Jesus did so much for us and He asks a lot from us in return. It has nothing to do with His crucifixion not being sufficient it is about us being obedient (works) just as He was to the Father!

We are not saved until we are flat on our faces kissing Jesus’ feet in Heaven! Then we can say “Once saved, always saved!” Can’t lose your salvation once in Heaven!

We can all have confidence in our salvation, but we must live our lives for Christ (works) to preach the Gospel to all nations (works) in hopes that others may learn of Christ’s redeeming work 2,000 years ago which He continues today through us by our cooperating with the Grace of God.

The only thing we cannot do is ascend to Heaven on our own works. It is up to God to decide whether we deserve to be taken to Heaven.

Are you obeying the commands of God? He didn’t ask them of us just for fun!

 

[justasking4]

Callin;4331169]
Originally Posted by justasking4
If OSAS is not true then what do we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus taught about His true followers the following:
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
Callin;
Right, the people whom Jesus is referring to are those who follow him. What if someone once was, but is no longer? Is that person still following Jesus? Is Jesus still referring to them here?

One of the characteristics of a true follower of Christ is that he perserveres. If that person is no longer following Christ he was not really His to begin with. This kind of person is described in the parable of the sower. See Matthew 13:18-23 espeically verses 19-22.

Quote:justasking4
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Callin
Can a person snatch or seize him/herself out of something?

If yes, send me the video.

If no, then that means Jesus wasn’t including the actual person when he mentioned people being able to snatch. Can a person choose to leave God? Unless he can snatch himself out, this passage does not say “no.” Nobody can take me away from God, except myself if I choose not to follow Him.

If a person chooses not to follow Him i would take this as a sign he was never His to begin with. Again the parable of the sower alludes to this.

 

[tGette]

One of the characteristics of a true follower of Christ is that he perserveres. If that person is no longer following Christ he was not really His to begin with. This kind of person is described in the parable of the sower. See Matthew 13:18-23 espeically verses 19-22.

If a person chooses not to follow Him i would take this as a sign he was never His to begin with. Again the parable of the sower alludes to this.

Lucifer was God’s, yet he chose to not follow Him.

 

[guanophore]

If OSAS is not true then what do we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus taught about His true followers the following:
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

How could someone overcome the power of Christ and put a person again under condemnation?

If a sheep is hearing His voice, and following Him, then such a one cannot be snatched. However, if a sheep chooses to block out His voice, not follow Him, such a sheep can jump out of His hand and run away.

Secondly, when a person comes to Christ he is a new creation.

“Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come”. 2 Cor 5:17

If a person somehow loses his salvation by sinning does that mean he goes from a state of new creation to fallen again repents and a new creation again? Does the church teach that you can go through life saved-unsaved multiple times?

No. The Apostles taught that we are permanently changed in baptism. If we then fall away our last state is WORSE than the first.