Today's Mass readings (God speaks to people / Jesus and the demons

[distracted]

Wednesday (7-1)

Genesis 21:5, 8-20:

Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him. Isaac grew, and on the day of the child’s weaning Abraham held a great feast. Sarah noticed the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham playing with her son Isaac; so she demanded of Abraham: “Drive out that slave and her son! No son of that slave is going to share the inheritance with my son Isaac!” Abraham was greatly distressed, especially on account of his son Ishmael. But God said to Abraham: “Do not be distressed about the boy or about your slave woman. Heed the demands of Sarah, no matter what she is asking of you; for it is through Isaac that descendants shall bear your name. As for the son of the slave woman, I will make a great nation of him also, since he too is your offspring.” Early the next morning Abraham got some bread and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. Then, placing the child on her back, he sent her away. As she roamed aimlessly in the wilderness of Beer-sheba, the water in the skin was used up. So she put the child down under a shrub, and then went and sat down opposite him, about a bowshot away; for she said to herself, “let me not watch to see the child die.” As she sat opposite Ishmael, he began to cry. ***God heard the boy’s cry, and God’s messenger called to Hagar from Heaven: ***“What is the matter, Hagar? Don’t be afraid; god has heard the boy’s cry in this light of his. Arise, lift up the boy and hold him by the hand; for I will make of him a great nation.” Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. She went and filled the skin with water, and then let the boy drink God was with the boy as he grew up.

St Mt 8:28-34:

When Jesus came to the territory of the Gadarenes, two demoniacs who were coming from the tombs met him. They were so savage that no one could travel by that road. They cried out, “What have you to do with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the appointed time?” Some distance away a herd of many swine was feeding. The demons pleased with him, “if you drive us out, send us into the herd of swine.” And he said to them, “Go then!” They came out and entered the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea where they drowned. The swineherds ran away and when they came to the town they reported everything, including what had happened to the demoniacs. Thereupon the whole town came out to meet Jesus and when they saw him they begged him to leave their district.”

*God hears us when we cry out - I would think: especially when children cry out, since they are so helpless.

I pray He hears the cry of the unborn today - and every day - and brings their murderers to justice. No more Roe v Wade *

 

[Pert]

I welcome you all to this new month-July.
Today God has once again revealed His supremacy over everything including demons.
It is time we stoped doubting God’s power.

I am finding it difficult to understand this site.especially how to send post to other members of this forum.

 

[cheeto1]

usccb.org/nab/070109.shtml

“God was with the boy as he grew up”
This line is speaking of Ishmael.
I am more annoyed than ever with Sarah. It was she who coldly calculated to bring
Ishmael into this world on purpose, and now she sends he and his mother into the
desert to die, for the “sin” of playing with Isaac. How could God tell Abraham to go
along with this? Why does He make Hagar and Ishmael suffer to their depths before
He shows them the water? This whole thing is Sarah’s fault. Why do we have to
look up to her? Ishmael is the innocent one who suffers here. And what about his
12 tribes? Does God give them any land like He did the 12 tribes of Israel? If not,
then why does he even have 12 tribes? It was in Sarah’s hand to avoid the whole middle east crisis of the world. Why did Abraham ever listen to her? Why did Adam ever listen to Eve? How many children today are born into this world through the trechary of their parents, and how many more are viciously killled for the crime of being inconvenient? How do these events which God has allowed contribute to the greater good? It was in Abraham’s hand not to listen to Sarah, It was in Adam’s hand not to listen to Eve, but it was in God’s hand not to create Ishmael, or even the devil…

Today’s psalm says “The Lord hears the cry of the poor” -
speaking of the poor, It was God who brought the Israelites to Egypt in the first
place where they were made slaves for hundreds of years. I guess that was their
punishment for trying to kill Joseph. Here the son of Isaac should have never
married Leah, but should have had an annulment in the morning. Then there would
have been no brothers to be raised in envy, and try to kill their brother Jospeh.
So He hears the cry of the poor, but in the case of the Israelites, it was He who
made them poor by the natural consequences of their trechery combined with His
saving help to the oppressed (Joseph). Those wives were just like Sarah, both
sending their husband into the arms of the maids. God allows great havoc on this
earth, brought against the innocent for the sins of the guilty, and He only helps the
innocent to the extent that it furthers His kingdom here on earth. The suffering of
the innocent pulls the hearts of the searchers to compassion, and to hate for sins.
That is God’s kingdom, a heart of compassion with a hate for sin. It is a spiritual
state, not a physical one.

Today’s frightening gospel has made me wonder if I have ever seen an animal
possessed. It turns my thoughts to the mentally ill, wondering what percentage
of them can’t be cured through medicine or therapy because they are actually
possessed. The bible says that Satan entered Judas at the last supper, yet he
acted in his right mind, not like the possessed of the Gadarenes, or the pigs, when
he led the troops to Jesus, and kissed Him. I hold onto James 4:7 - resist the devil,
and he will flee from you.
The fight against abortion is not against flesh and blood.
That abortion doctor was in a church, and may have been close to the moment
when God would get through to him, the most vicious of abortion doctors, to
fight against abortion like Norma Corvey of Roe v. Wade does. The man who killed
him may have been an agent of the devil.

today is the day of Junipero Serro, a priest who lived in Mexico city and founded
21 missions. He is largely responsible for spreading the church on the west coast,
and even today Mexicans are more pro-life.

 

[distracted]

usccb.org/nab/070109.shtml

“God was with the boy as he grew up”
This line is speaking of Ishmael.
I am more annoyed than ever with Sarah. It was she who coldly calculated to bring
Ishmael into this world on purpose, and now she sends he and his mother into the
desert to die, for the “sin” of playing with Isaac. How could God tell Abraham to go
along with this? Why does He make Hagar and Ishmael suffer to their depths before
He shows them the water? This whole thing is Sarah’s fault. e.

will comment on other parts of your post later…

Did Abram have to sleep w/ Hagar???

Why do men always act like everything is the woman’s fault? Even when he commits adultery, it is the woman’s fault… as if men are animals, maybe??? and can’t say NO???

sorry, but this just sounds so double-standard to me…

I’m not saying you don’t have a point… I am not all tht impressed w/ sarah’s behavior either… by a long shot…

I think God just wanted Ishmael to be raised by Abraham… and that’s why He told her to go back and submit to S’s abuse… although… didn’t seem to do much good… In any case, i feel it is abram’s fault mostly… and also, to some extent Hagar’s except that she was a servant & probably felt she had to submit to S’s request that she get pregnant…

 

[distracted]

I welcome you all to this new month-July.
Today God has once again revealed His supremacy over everything including demons.
It is time we stoped doubting God’s power.

I am finding it difficult to understand this site.especially how to send post to other members of this forum.

you sent this one…

if you have a subject you want to discuss, go to New Thread…

Click on Poster’s handle… (name) and a menu comes up… one is Send Private message. you can send me one if you want… for more info or whatever…

 

[Nita]

I welcome you all to this new month-July.
Today God has once again revealed His supremacy over everything including demons.
It is time we stoped doubting God’s power.

I am finding it difficult to understand this site.especially how to send post to other members of this forum.

Welcome to CAF Pert.
Most posting is done publicly, just as you did here on this thread. If you want to send a private message to someone, click on their name (given in big letters at the top of their post) and then click on “Send a private message to ____”.
Some people may have stipulated that they do not want private messages. In that case, you would not be able to send them a message.

 

[Nita]

usccb.org/nab/070109.shtml

The fight against abortion is not against flesh and blood.
That abortion doctor was in a church, and may have been close to the moment
when God would get through to him, the most vicious of abortion doctors, to
fight against abortion like Norma Corvey of Roe v. Wade does. The man who killed
him may have been an agent of the devil. .

Re underlined: what a striking thought cheeto. I never thought of viewing it in that way, but I agree with you. Let’s pray for the final conversion of both. Padre Pio says there’s no time in God’s realm. Thus, you can pray for a happy death for someone even after they have died. God knows what we will do in our “future” (eg. pray for the final conversion of a certain person) and takes that into account at the time of that person’s death.) Boy, the wonders and mercies of God. What a joy to realize I could pray for a happy death for my father after the fact – since I hadn’t thought to do it prior. Alleluia.

 

[erikd]

GOD REIGNED FROM THE WOOD

Question: What happened to the “Legion” mentioned in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke which were cast out of a man by Jesus, and sent into a herd of swine which drowned in the water? Let’s see the corresponding passages:

26 Then they sailed to the country of the Gadarenes, which is opposite Galilee.
27 And when He stepped out on the land, there met Him a certain man from the city who had demons for a long time. And he wore no clothes, nor did he live in a house but in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, “What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me!”
29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had often seized him, and he was kept under guard, bound with chains and shackles; and he broke the bonds and was driven by the demon into the wilderness.
30 Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him.
31 And they begged Him that He would not command them to go out into the abyss.
32 Now a herd of many swine was feeding there on the mountain. So they begged Him that He would permit them to enter them. And He permitted them.
33 Then the demons went out of the man and entered the swine, and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the lake and drowned.
Luke 8:26-33

1 Then they came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains,
4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones.
6 When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him.
7 And he cried out with a loud voice and said, “What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me.”
8 For He said to him, “Come out of the man, unclean spirit!”
9 Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”
10 Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.
11 Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains.
12 So all the demons begged Him, saying, “Send us to the swine, that we may enter them.”
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits (o. pneuma) went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.
Mark 5:1-13

This story is also presented in the Gospel of Matthew with two changes. First, Matthew writes of two demon-possessed men, second Matthew does not use the word “Legion” though he refers to the plural “demons” and “us” referring to more than one demon.

28 When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way.
29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”
30 Now a good way off from them there was a herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the demons begged Him, saying, “If You cast us out, permit us to go away into the herd of swine.”
32 And He said to them, “Go.” So when they had come out, they went into the herd of swine. And suddenly the whole herd of swine ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and perished in the water.
Matthew 8:28-32

Continued on next post

 

[erikd]

We know that the swine were choked in the sea, but the demons are souls, therefore they are immortal. The words Mark and Luke use, “unclean spirits” are very descriptive.

Unclean: Akathartos. not cleansed, unclean
a. in a ceremonial sense: that which must be abstained from according to the levitical law
b. in a moral sense: unclean in thought and life
Spirit: Pneuma. a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel

1. used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
   The words used by Matthew, “demon-possessed,” are also very descriptive:

Daimonizomai: to be under the power of a demon

The Catholic Encyclopedia explains “pneuma” further and goes on to differentiate it into purely supernatural:

In St. Paul we find a more technical phraseology employed with great consistency. Psyche is now appropriated to the purely natural life; pneuma to the life of supernatural religion, the principle of which is the Holy Spirit, dwelling and operating in the heart. The opposition of flesh and spirit is accentuated afresh (Romans 1:18, etc.).
Catholic Encyclopedia: Soul (pneuma)
newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm

The Luke verse is also used as a reference in the Catechism of the Catholic Church in the following chapter:

550 The coming of God’s kingdom means the defeat of Satan’s: "If it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."277 Jesus’ exorcisms free some individuals from the domination of demons. They anticipate Jesus’ great victory over “the ruler of this world”.278 The kingdom of God will be definitively established through Christ’s cross: "God reigned from the wood."279
Catechism of the Catholic Church.
scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p3.htm#III

What all this tells us is that the demons are immortal souls who need somewhere to dwell. Perhaps the best clue is given in Luke 8:31 (above) in which the demons are afraid of being commanded into the abyss, the transliterated word being “abussos” and literally meaning “lowest parts of the earth used as the common receptacle of the dead and especially as the abode of demons.” This tells us two things. First, it is obvious that the demons knew Jesus and realized that Jesus had the power to send them into the abyss. Two, in order to dwell in the present world, they would need to dwell in another person or animal i.e. swine. This is evident by the fact that the demons did not want to be cast out but wanted, rather, to continue dwelling in their present location. They also appear incapable of making a transition into another entity on their own. Mark 5:7 (above) gives us further evidence of this as the demons are begging Jesus not to torment them. One would have to assume that this would have to correspond with the demons being commanded into the abyss. Further down in Mark 5:10, the demons beg Jesus not to be sent out of the “country.” The Greek word used here is “khora” and its literal meaning is “land which is ploughed or cultivated, ground.” This, again, would be where the demons dwelled at the time Jesus found them. In Matthew 8:29, we are told that the demons also have their “time.” Based on the previously discussed information, it is evident that this time, spoken of by the demons, represents their move from the present world into the abyss. St. John Chrysostom further argues this point, as he equates their transition into the abyss with their punishment as well as vengeance:

And Matthew indeed relates that they said, “Art Thou come hither before the time to torment us?” but the other evangelists have added, that they also entreated and adjured Him not to cast them into the deep. For they supposed that their punishment was now close upon them, and feared, as even now about to fall into vengeance.
St. John Chrysostom, St [347-407 AD] (Homily 28 on the Gospel of Matthew)
newadvent.org/fathers/200128.htm

St. John Chrysostom believes that the demons were “even now about to fall into vengeance” indicating that the fall of the swine into the water indicated the passing of the demons from this world into their next, which they so dreaded (Lk 8:28, 31, Mk 5:7, 10, Mt 8:29). This, however, is indicative of a much bigger story about to play out. As the Gospel of Matthew tells us:

28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out devils, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
Matthew 12: 28

To which the Catechism of the Catholic Church adds:

550 The coming of God’s kingdom means the defeat of Satan’s

The Gospels are abundantly overflowing with prophecy and these three versions of the same story are part of the greatest prophecy of the Gospels. Jesus’ defeat over Satan is very much evident in this story and certainly a prophecy, one which the Apostles did not fully understand. However, part of this prophecy also bears a great explanation of where evil dwells, and where it will ultimately end up. Although it is not specified in any of the three stories presented here, the most likely scenario is that the demons were sent into the abyss as the swine perished. They appeared incapable of commanding themselves into another entity, and were under Jesus’ complete control and at His will. It is not the demons that forced the swine into the water, it was God Himself. Tormenting evil as the demons were begging Him not to do. Yet their fate was already sealed. The death of the swine was also the sending out of the demons out of the country (Mk 5:10) or out of the “khora.” This was Jesus’ prophecy of the greatest victory man has ever witnessed, and in which man has the hope and capability of partaking (1Th. 5:8).

God Bless

Title, “God Reigned from the Wood” taken from the following:
LH, Lent, Holy Week, Evening Prayer, Hymn Vexilla Regis: “Regnavit a ligno Deus.”

 

[distracted]

Re underlined: what a striking thought cheeto. I never thought of viewing it in that way, but I agree with you. Let’s pray for the final conversion of both. Padre Pio says there’s no time in God’s realm. Thus, you can pray for a happy death for someone even after they have died. God knows what we will do in our “future” (eg. pray for the final conversion of a certain person) and takes that into account at the time of that person’s death.) Boy, the wonders and mercies of God. What a joy to realize I could pray for a happy death for my father after the fact – since I hadn’t thought to do it prior. Alleluia.

hate to be a stick in the mud but i disagree w/ a few things here…

it is too late for Tiller to repent. He had many yrs on this earth to do so (and many would-be “saviors” to help him come to Christ)… Maybe he did at the last minute… God knows… but he has no longer any chance to make a decision… and if he is in Hell, our prayers for him will do HIM no good (tho God gives their benefit to other souls).

God does NOT know what we are going to do in the future… If that were the case, we would all be robots & we could say that God actually creates people for Hell and things like that… but we DO have control over our future… over our etneral destinies… We have complete freedom w/ God … God only knows what we may be inclined to do w/ any given situation or whatever…

I’m sorry you lost your father. I pray for him also…

 

[distracted]

usccb.org/nab/070109.shtml

The bible says that Satan entered Judas at the last supper, yet he
acted in his right mind, not like the possessed of the Gadarenes,

the ones who don’t show their possession are the worst ones… People who seem very friendly and easy-to get along with … i have also found… can be some of the worst… but whatever…

The fight against abortion is not against flesh and blood.
That abortion doctor was in a church, and may have been close to the moment
when God would get through to him, the most vicious of abortion doctors, to
fight against abortion like Norma Corvey of Roe v. Wade does. The man who killed
him may have been an agent of the devil.

i feel all this is more/less irrelevent… since what is paramount is protecting innocent human lives… I feel his killer was only guilty of committing an unauthorized act of capital punishment… definitely not murder…
(in the eyes of God).

 

[Nita]

hate to be a stick in the mud but i disagree w/ a few things here…

it is too late for Tiller to repent. He had many yrs on this earth to do so (and many would-be “saviors” to help him come to Christ)… Maybe he did at the last minute… God knows… but he has no longer any chance to make a decision… and if he is in Hell, our prayers for him will do HIM no good (tho God gives their benefit to other souls).

God does NOT know what we are going to do in the future… If that were the case, we would all be robots & we could say that God actually creates people for Hell and things like that… but we DO have control over our future… over our etneral destinies… We have complete freedom w/ God … God only knows what we may be inclined to do w/ any given situation or whatever…

I’m sorry you lost your father. I pray for him also…

God does know what we will do in the future – but that does not make us robots. Knowing the choices we will make is NOT THE SAME as controlling the choices we will make.

Re our prayers for a happy death for someone already dead. God would be granting the person/s graces at the time of their actual death in anticipation of the prayers He KNOWS we will be offering up later.

Hope that clarifies a bit.

 

[distracted]

God does know what we will do in the future – but that does not make us robots. Knowing the choices we will make is NOT THE SAME as controlling the choices we will make.

.

God does not know what we are going to do in the future… unless maybe we are sold out to satan or something and have no will left??? and even then…

He gave us the ability to choose. We are “gods”… Jesus quoted that scirpture from the OT that says that… “Are you not gods?” (meaning: the right to choose… to do wahtever we want…)

God put Abraham to the test…

Why would he bother if he knew what choice he was going to make???

 

[Nita]

God does not know what we are going to do in the future… unless maybe we are sold out to satan or something and have no will left??? and even then…

He gave us the ability to choose. We are “gods”… Jesus quoted that scirpture from the OT that says that… “Are you not gods?” (meaning: the right to choose… to do wahtever we want…)

God is omniscient - all knowing. “All” includes the aspect of time also – all actions throughout all of time. This is a Church dogma.
Vatican Council I (1870) states it thus:
…For “all things are naked and open to His eyes” (Heb 4:13), even those which by the free action of creatures are in the future.

Here is an interesting bit I just came across in “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma”:
The dogma of human freedom is not abrogated by the dogma of the infallible certainty of the Divine prevision of future free actions. The Fathers point to the eternal character of the Divine knowing and conclude that the Divine foreknowledge imposes as little compulsion on future actions as human remembering does on the past. …
Cf. St. Augustine…“As thou through thy remembrance dost not oblige that which is past to have occurred, so God through His prescience does not compel that which shall be in the future to happen.”

God put Abraham’s to the test…

Why would he bother if he knew what choice he was going to make???

The test was for Abraham’s benefit - not because God didn’t know what was in Abraham’s heart and how he would respond.

Like St. Peter, most of us who love the Lord think we would suffer anything rather than deny Him. We may really believe it - be absolutely positive in our mind/intellect, that our faith is that strong. But there is the sense in which that faith is not yet real. For it to be completely “real” it has to be demonstrated, lived out. To do this, trials must arise that challenge our faith; situations that test and give us an opportunity to demonstrate the strength of our faith. Faith may start in the intellect and heart, but it has to be lived out to be real.

Trails and tests serve as a means to strengthen the faith we have.

These tests also serve as *a means of self revelation for us *-- to discover whether we truly have the faith we claim in our thoughts and words, or whether we are instead mistaken in our confidence (as Peter discovered). Until it’s undergone the test, we do not know for sure whether our faith is as strong as we think it is.

God knows how strong our faith is; it’s we who don’t.

 

[erikd]

God does not know what we are going to do in the future… unless maybe we are sold out to satan or something and have no will left??? and even then…

He gave us the ability to choose. We are “gods”… Jesus quoted that scirpture from the OT that says that… “Are you not gods?” (meaning: the right to choose… to do wahtever we want…)

God put Abraham to the test…

Why would he bother if he knew what choice he was going to make???

Catholic Encyclopedia: The Natures and Attributes of God: Divine Knowledge: Distinctions in the Divine Knowledge:

In classifying the objects of Divine omniscience the most obvious and fundamental distinction is between things that actually exist at any time, and those that are merely possible. And it is in reference to these two classes of objects that the distinction is made between knowledge “of vision” and “of simple intelligence”; the former referring to things actual, and the latter to the merely possible. This distinction might appear at first sight to be absolutely comprehensive and adequate to the purpose for which we introduce distinctions at all, but some difficulty is felt once the question is raised of God’s knowledge of the acts of creatures endowed with free will. That God knows infallibly and from eternity what, for example, a certain man, in the exercise of free will, will do or actually does in any given circumstances, and what he might or would actually have done in different circumstances is beyond doubt – being a corollary from the eternal actuality of Divine knowledge. So to speak, God has not to wait on the contingent and temporal event of the man’s free choice to know what the latter’s action will be; He knows it from eternity. But the difficulty is: how, from our finite point of view, to interpret and explain the mysterious manner of God’s knowledge of such events without at the same time sacrificing the free will of the creature.
newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm#IID1

Hope this clears up the issue.

 

[cheeto1]

you can pray for a happy death for someone even after they have died.

This makes sense to a suprising lot of people, but not to me. Should we now pray
that Jesus will be born into this world? How about praying that the sun will come
out yesterday? Should we pray that the sky will be blue last year? Should I pray
that my father has a successful operation 2 years ago? Shall we pray that the
astronauts will land on the moon in 1969, or that Karl Ratzinger will become pope?

So now if we prayed for the opposite of the above things that already happened, why would God decide to just change it into not having happened?

Whether or not your father had a happy death, I don’t know. But this I do know, that
God has given you a great gift in that you love your father. And you know what? The
worst experience possible here on earth will be just no different than best experience
possible on earth, when you compare it to the greatness of heaven. Isn’t it a joy to
realize that happy death or not, his death is over?

 

[erikd]

This makes sense to a suprising lot of people, but not to me. Should we now pray
that Jesus will be born into this world? How about praying that the sun will come
out yesterday? Should we pray that the sky will be blue last year? Should I pray
that my father has a successful operation 2 years ago? Shall we pray that the
astronauts will land on the moon in 1969, or that Karl Ratzinger will become pope?

I wasn’t prepared to tell this story so I will omit the names. However, I heard an Archbishop of a Catholic Diocese tell a beautiful story one time.

The story goes like this: A man, who loved money and had a financially promising career had a dream one night where he saw a young woman praying. He did not know the woman or what she was praying for but the dream kept repeating over and over again. This dream made this young man realize that he was foresaking his values in the name of greed. His conviction became so strong that he entered the seminary and became a priest. Fast forward about 30 years later, the priest who by then was a Bishop was visiting a group of nuns. These were nuns he had never seen before and one of the nuns immediately looked strikingly familiar to him. It was the nun in his dream. When he asked the “Mother” who the nun was, the Mother explained that this nun prays for Priestly conversions every day.

It is stories like this that make me catch a glimpse of what it means for God to be outside of time.

 

[cheeto1]

I really love that story, but, she didn’t start praying only after he became a priest, it
was before he was a priest.

incidentally, one person speaks up at morning mass every day during prayers of
the faithful, to pray for people to become priests and nuns. What if there is
someone having a dream of a whole congregation praying for them? thanks for that
story!

 

[Nita]

As I mentioned, it was from a biography about Padre Pio where I first learned about such prayer. The author related how Padre Pio always prayed for his father (after his father had died). One of the other monks asked him why he did this since Padre Pio had told him his father had gone into heaven already (either immediately, or shortly after his death). Padre Pio knew this because it had been revealed to him by Our Lord.

Well, Padre Pio told the other monk that “yes”, his father was already in heaven, but God had granted Pio’s request contingent on him continuing to pray the rest of his life for his father’s soul. (I think it was that long that he had to pray for his father’s release from purgatory and entry into heaven.)

Wish I knew which book and where to find it because the author did a much better job of relating the incident than I did.

 

[Nita]

This makes sense to a suprising lot of people, but not to me. Should we now pray
that Jesus will be born into this world? How about praying that the sun will come
out yesterday? Should we pray that the sky will be blue last year? Should I pray
that my father has a successful operation 2 years ago? Shall we pray that the
astronauts will land on the moon in 1969, or that Karl Ratzinger will become pope?

So now if we prayed for the opposite of the above things that already happened, why would God decide to just change it into not having happened?

I was speaking of prayer for the salvation/conversion of a person who has died. God will not “change” anything that has already happened in their death. But, because of prayers that He knows will be offered in the future for that person, He may bestow the graces that those future prayers will request.