Told bad father on father's day?

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whm

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So, I went to dinner with my wife on Father’s Day. It was kind of a delayed date, previously postponed and not necessarily for fathers day as we would have had the kids with us. Spent the time talking about the kids and school strategies etc. These conversations always have a slight amount of tension in them as we view things a little differently (such as whether to hold an obviously smart but immature kid back a year or not). We came to a good understanding and plan on the school related topics, then my wife states that our son need a positive catholic man/men in his life. I say well maybe we can do a retreat together (son and I) She shot that down and says we should ask what so and so’s husband does because her son takes his faith so seriously. At first I thought she meant he needs other catholic male influences, which I would agree with, but on second thought it kind of feels a little different, like an accusation (ie I am lacking). I conversationally told her that I would like to do more reading of some catholic books I had bought, but since I have to stay up with our 15 year old son, who has trouble sleeping (11pm +) every night and since she goes to bed at 8:30 it is hard to get it in. I thought that would give an opportunity to clarify, her response was that I should get some books on tape (she was not sarcastic in this comment btw) since my commute is so long.

Ended up sitting up most of the night unable to sleep thinking about this, particularly because it was said on fathers day. Anyway my question for the group is, should I follow-up with her on this or just let it drop? I don’t like to do religious stuff for “show” but maybe that is what she wants.:confused: In the past she is very uncomfortable with me when I show a lot of outward religious activity, like she is threatened by it or something. :confused:

Anyway I don’t trust my instincts on this any would appreciate some objective opinions.

Thanks,
 
Why not just ask your wife what she meant and what she wants? Wives sometimes say things, husbands sometimes say things. We aren’t in the relationship to know what she meant, what she said, her tone and your thoughts. It would be terrible advice and lacking in wisdom for anyone to say anything one way or the other and be a wedge in your marriage and your relationship, in regard to your question.
 
whm said:
So, I went to dinner with my wife on Father’s Day. It was kind of a delayed date, previously postponed and not necessarily for fathers day as we would have had the kids with us. Spent the time talking about the kids and school strategies etc. These conversations always have a slight amount of tension in them as we view things a little differently (such as whether to hold an obviously smart but immature kid back a year or not). We came to a good understanding and plan on the school related topics, then my wife states that our son need a positive catholic man/men in his life. I say well maybe we can do a retreat together (son and I) She shot that down and says we should ask what so and so’s husband does because her son takes his faith so seriously. At first I thought she meant he needs other catholic male influences, which I would agree with, but on second thought it kind of feels a little different, like an accusation (ie I am lacking). I conversationally told her that I would like to do more reading of some catholic books I had bought, but since I have to stay up with our 15 year old son, who has trouble sleeping (11pm +) every night and since she goes to bed at 8:30 it is hard to get it in. I thought that would give an opportunity to clarify, her response was that I should get some books on tape (she was not sarcastic in this comment btw) since my commute is so long.

Ended up sitting up most of the night unable to sleep thinking about this, particularly because it was said on fathers day. Anyway my question for the group is, should I follow-up with her on this or just let it drop? I don’t like to do religious stuff for “show” but maybe that is what she wants.:confused: In the past she is very uncomfortable with me when I show a lot of outward religious activity, like she is threatened by it or something. :confused:

Anyway I don’t trust my instincts on this any would appreciate some objective opinions.

Thanks,
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The joint retreat idea sounded really good.

Obviously, you can’t just copy other people’s spirituality and have it work for you.

That said, your wife’s idea of you listening to books during your commute is also a good one, if you wouldn’t find it distracting.
 
Sounds to me like you are taking this a bit harder than you should. I think that everyone should broaden and deepen their knowledge of their faith. I used to have a long commute myself and I started listening to books on cd’s about the faith, many of them available here and then found this great resource as well. lighthousecatholicmedia.org/store?gclid=CLKZ4Kbmo8YCFQqSaQodH1UOuw

God bless
 
whm said:
So, I went to dinner with my wife on Father’s Day. It was kind of a delayed date, previously postponed and not necessarily for fathers day as we would have had the kids with us. Spent the time talking about the kids and school strategies etc. These conversations always have a slight amount of tension in them as we view things a little differently (such as whether to hold an obviously smart but immature kid back a year or not). We came to a good understanding and plan on the school related topics, then my wife states that our son need a positive catholic man/men in his life. I say well maybe we can do a retreat together (son and I) She shot that down and says we should ask what so and so’s husband does because her son takes his faith so seriously. At first I thought she meant he needs other catholic male influences, which I would agree with, but on second thought it kind of feels a little different, like an accusation (ie I am lacking). I conversationally told her that I would like to do more reading of some catholic books I had bought, but since I have to stay up with our 15 year old son, who has trouble sleeping (11pm +) every night and since she goes to bed at 8:30 it is hard to get it in. I thought that would give an opportunity to clarify, her response was that I should get some books on tape (she was not sarcastic in this comment btw) since my commute is so long.

Ended up sitting up most of the night unable to sleep thinking about this, particularly because it was said on fathers day. Anyway my question for the group is, should I follow-up with her on this or just let it drop? I don’t like to do religious stuff for “show” but maybe that is what she wants.:confused: In the past she is very uncomfortable with me when I show a lot of outward religious activity, like she is threatened by it or something. :confused:

Anyway I don’t trust my instincts on this any would appreciate some objective opinions.

Thanks,
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Ouch.
Your wife is trying to help you be a better man and father. And what she said probably hurt. You need to find out if there is some truth to it and then change. I get that ego’s and emotions can get hurt, and I understand that she probably could have done this better, but I have to ask, why were you not with your kids on Father’s day night. My bet is that if you were at the Church at adoration with your kids, this conversation would never have happened.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Ouch.
Your wife is trying to help you be a better man and father. And what she said probably hurt. You need to find out if there is some truth to it and then change. I get that ego’s and emotions can get hurt, and I understand that she probably could have done this better, but I have to ask, why were you not with your kids on Father’s day night. My bet is that if you were at the Church at adoration with your kids, this conversation would never have happened.
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No doubt I could use improvement and the truth does hurts. By that token she is not perfect either, although I resist ever pointing that out.

We were going to have our date dinner on Saturday, but there was an opportunity to take my son out with the astronomy club that night (it clouded up of course once we arrived). We also ate at 4pm and came home and had desert with the kids. It was her idea to leave the kids at home.

As for adoration, I did it for years but haven’t for the last few. That is one of the things she reacted sort of strangely to. I used to do men’s conferences every year and a weekly men’s group too. It is almost like she is threatened by it. That is also why I was taken aback when I suggested doing a father son retreat.
 
DCNBILL said:
Sounds to me like you are taking this a bit harder than you should. I think that everyone should broaden and deepen their knowledge of their faith. I used to have a long commute myself and I started listening to books on cd’s about the faith, many of them available here and then found this great resource as well. lighthousecatholicmedia.org/store?gclid=CLKZ4Kbmo8YCFQqSaQodH1UOuw

God bless
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Yes I have listened to a lot of these over the years.

Thanks,
 
whm said:
…She shot that down and says we should ask what so and so’s husband does because her son takes his faith so seriously…
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It would have been a good idea to ask her directly to clarify what she meant at the time.

The magnitude of the assumptions you think she is making about someone else are staggering. What would she think happens in a family with three sons and only one who “takes his faith so seriously”–which is, let us note, an outsider’s observation concerning someone else’s inner spiritual life? Those assumptions, taken together, are pretty cheeky!! Let’s hope, then, that she didn’t mean what you thought she did.

More importantly: As much as this insults you, it actually insults your son even more. Defend him, too. If there is more of a fool’s errand than approaching your 15-year-old son with anything whatsoever that smacks of “why can’t you be more like than nice boy at church/school/etc”, I don’t know what it is. If he hears that kind of talk, expect him to be every bit as hurt as you are feeling right now. Just as the only workable idea is for you to become the best dad you can be, rather than a copy of some other dad, the idea is to help your son be the best version of himself, not an imitation of some other young man. Defend your son from all attempts to mold him into someone else’s image, even in your image.

Having said all that, I’d let the matter drop concerning that one conversation. Don’t pursue what so-and-so’s husband does. With any luck, your wife will think better of doing that research or sharing it with you, and this Father’s Day conversation can be discounted as a spout of thinking out loud that came to nothing because it either wasn’t what you thought or else it was later realized that it was a half-baked idea.

Decide what you want to be in your son’s life and realize that being that father for your son is your prerogative. You are your son’s father. You are irreplaceable. It is important that you not be the only good Catholic man he spends any time with, but he will learn how to be a Catholic man from you in ways he’ll not learn it from anyone else. Of course you might decide that your son, like many other young men, might profit from having many good Catholic men in his life and in seeing you as a Catholic man interacting with other young men other than him. He is going to have male role models other than you, so of course it makes sense to look at who he spends time with and what he sees in them.

If your wife goes and does this research about what so-and-so’s husband does, that is when I would ask her what all of this is supposed to mean. If she doesn’t, then charitably assume that she thought better of what she was proposing and thankfully dropped it. You’ve probably put your foot in your mouth with her once or twice, too. What you forgive in her, God will forgive in you. A generous bank account of mercy is always a good investment!
 
EasterJoy said:
I
More importantly: As much as this insults you, it actually insults your son even more. Defend him, too. If there is more of a fool’s errand than approaching your 15-year-old son with anything whatsoever that smacks of “why can’t you be more like than nice boy at church/school/etc”, I don’t know what it is.

**Right.

Plus, mom doesn’t really know what Rupert is like when it’s just the boys–he may be much less of an angel than he appears to be. **

If he hears that kind of talk, expect him to be every bit as hurt as you are feeling right now. Just as the only workable idea is for you to become the best dad you can be, rather than a copy of some other dad, the idea is to help your son be the best version of himself, not an imitation of some other young man.

Right.

/QUOTE]
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Oh, and if Rupert is every bit as good as he looks, it may be due to Rupert’s MOM, not Rupert’s dad.
 
whm said:
So, I went to dinner with my wife on Father’s Day. It was kind of a delayed date, previously postponed and not necessarily for fathers day as we would have had the kids with us. Spent the time talking about the kids and school strategies etc. These conversations always have a slight amount of tension in them as we view things a little differently (such as whether to hold an obviously smart but immature kid back a year or not). We came to a good understanding and plan on the school related topics, then my wife states that our son need a positive catholic man/men in his life. I say well maybe we can do a retreat together (son and I) She shot that down and says we should ask what so and so’s husband does because her son takes his faith so seriously. At first I thought she meant he needs other catholic male influences, which I would agree with, but on second thought it kind of feels a little different, like an accusation (ie I am lacking). I conversationally told her that I would like to do more reading of some catholic books I had bought, but since I have to stay up with our 15 year old son, who has trouble sleeping (11pm +) every night and since she goes to bed at 8:30 it is hard to get it in. I thought that would give an opportunity to clarify, her response was that I should get some books on tape (she was not sarcastic in this comment btw) since my commute is so long.

Ended up sitting up most of the night unable to sleep thinking about this, particularly because it was said on fathers day. Anyway my question for the group is, should I follow-up with her on this or just let it drop? I don’t like to do religious stuff for “show” but maybe that is what she wants.:confused: In the past she is very uncomfortable with me when I show a lot of outward religious activity, like she is threatened by it or something. :confused:

Anyway I don’t trust my instincts on this any would appreciate some objective opinions.

Thanks,
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Ask your wife. The worse thing is to keep going over in your mind what you think she meant. You could think of many scenarios and none of them could be right. You see the result of that…lack of sleep. Communicate with your wife.
 
EasterJoy,

You make some good points. There is an issue with comparison to others.
 
It is much better to have your wife clarify the comment, rather than you mulling it over and losing sleep over it. If it turns out the comment was innocent, and that may be just what it is, it is never harmful to review your place as a Catholic / male role model.

She also may be thinking of your long commute. That is not your fault. A primary responsibility for a father is to provide for his family. You are clearly doing a good job.
 
It sounds to me like you and your wife ought to be going on a retreat together as well. Either one or both of you are having really difficulty with communicating. I would be a little annoyed as well if I thought that my spouse wanted me to be more like someone else’s spouse and straight up mad if I was told they wanted my child to be more like someone else’s child! No one actually knows what goes on behind closed doors in someone else’s family. Your wife has no idea what her friend’s kid takes seriously or not. I don’t think you should go over old conversations, but if she brings that up again, I would take the opportunity to point out how unrealistic and hurtful such statements are. I certainly hope she never says something like that to your son!

If the religious things you have attempted in the past were all mens retreats or groups, maybe she is threatened by the idea that you might want to spend more time with friends instead of with the family? A couples retreat might be received better? I think the father/son retreat is an excellent idea and I’ve never heard of one existing before so if you have the opportinuty, I say go!
 
Wow! That seems uncalled for.

I would ask directly and clarify, it could have been an unfortunate choice of words. But if it is as you suspect, then you need to work through this together.

How about you just do with your boy what you think you need to, not asking her suggestions/approval of your choices of father/son bonding.

And if you want her to stay up with your child so you can read or sleep, ask her directly too, not around the bush like your comment of her going to bed at 8:30.
 
whm said:
No doubt I could use improvement and the truth does hurts. By that token she is not perfect either, although I resist ever pointing that out.

We were going to have our date dinner on Saturday, but there was an opportunity to take my son out with the astronomy club that night (it clouded up of course once we arrived). We also ate at 4pm and came home and had desert with the kids. It was her idea to leave the kids at home.

As for adoration, I did it for years but haven’t for the last few. That is one of the things she reacted sort of strangely to. I used to do men’s conferences every year and a weekly men’s group too. It is almost like she is threatened by it. That is also why I was taken aback when I suggested doing a father son retreat.
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When a wife tells a father that her son needs a positive Catholic man in her life, you know very well what her opinion of you in that regard is. This has to be a deeper issue than just your fatherhood and I assume it cuts to the heart of your marriage. The bad part is that it is hurtful and if it was planned as something to tell you on fathers day then the problem is more serious in your wife’s mind than you are thinking. If however it was a 1/365 chance comment while thinking out loud, then it was astoundingly unfortunate in the timing.
  1. Either your wife is telling you something you need to think about for the sake of your family.
  2. Or she is incredibly cold and wrong, attacking the bond between a father and son and placing blame on the shortcomings of the son, squarely on your shoulders.
Be it one or two, the advantage is yours. You can use this as an opportunity to correct your shortcomings, or you can realize your wife is cold and disrespectful to you.

No matter what, your wife has clearly told you something here.
You can either use it to change you, or deal with her… Only you can know which is the case…
 
PS- I know this isn’t a really important part of your post, but why would you need to stay up with a 15 year old? When I was 15, I often stayed up past my parents, working my job or doing homework, or just watching TV. Even if you were just keeping him company and making sure he didn’t sneak out, why couldn’t you read a book while you do it?
 
Allegra said:
PS- I know this isn’t a really important part of your post, but why would you need to stay up with a 15 year old? When I was 15, I often stayed up past my parents, working my job or doing homework, or just watching TV. Even if you were just keeping him company and making sure he didn’t sneak out, why couldn’t you read a book while you do it?
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He has insomnia and wants me to keep him company. Reading while he does whatever is good idea. I will give it a try.
 
whm said:
EasterJoy,

You make some good points. There is an issue with comparison to others.
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Keep in mind, though, that she may have read something in a magazine about how important men other than a boy’s father are in forming him. There is a tendency at that age for a young man to idolize everyone except his dad or to idolize his dad but to despair of emulating him or pleasing him. Trying to emulate and please some other man can seem like a more attainable goal with more positive feedback likely to come from it. If you are a very good man like your dad, for instance, it is easy to imagine your dad will get all the credit. If you make yourself a good man yet distinct from your father, you can easily imagine that you will get more of the credit and will have accomplished more of an independent feat.

The “men’s movement” people have rightly noted that there is a reason that traditional mythological stories about young men always involve the young man going out, making his own way, and finding guides other than the young man’s father. The young “hero” comes back as a mature man in his own right. Your wife may have just been reading literature around this truism of growing up and decided that your son is at the age when he needs other male role models than you, wrongly supposing that your place as a role model is irrelevant. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

In any event, don’t waste CPU time trying to figure out what she meant. The question is not so important that it is worth the trouble of going back. It is better not to dwell on it too much. If the question comes up again, though, by all means ask what is meant in real time. It is a question worth asking in the context of the discussion, because you can have the discussion with a better idea of what assumptions your wife is making. During the discussion is the time to bring these things up.
 
whm said:
He has insomnia and wants me to keep him company…
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He wants you as an influence, I’m thinking. This is an excellent time to have conversations that include a lot more silence than talking. To be blunt, those are conversations that are more common between a dad and a child than between a mother and a child. Mothers tend to talk and to encourage talking a lot more, while dads are more comfortable with allowing contemplative silence and far greater thought privacy. Sons who don’t get these conversations tend to wish they had, and sons who get them tend to treasure them as something only their father ever gave them. (Not always, but it is a theme you hear a lot.)
 
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