Tongue/Hand/Precious Blood

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Bear who did ya try to move???

I really felt I had to address the posts and was afrad the if I moved before misericordie that s(he) would not see them and respond.

Sorry if it was me you tried to move. I have gone there now.
 
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Mysty101:
PS Perhaps you won’t go to the other thread (in Liturgy) is because you have been proven wrong there.
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Actually, if YOU can prove me wrong, as well as “bear” (he was going in circles busy attacking ME not my arguments) then I will freely wave a white flag. In the meantime, you as well as end especially “bear” are just jumping jacking fallacies all over the place. CONFRONT (both of you) the thesis (the argument) and stop personally attacking ME. Mayme someone will pay attention to you here, including myself. YOUR latest posts prove that my argument cannot be proven wrong my your satements, hence you both commit a terrible but comon fallacy.
I will not continue to go around in cirles with those who cannot even formulate a logical, University style argumentation.
Well to remember Aquinas’ teachings: “the PASSIONS are to be subjest to reason, and the Will.” PLEASE control your passions here in an adult way.
 
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misericordie:
Actually, if YOU can prove me wrong, as well as “bear” (he was going in circles busy attacking ME not my arguments) then I will freely wave a white flag. In the meantime, you as well as and especially “bear” are just jumping jacking fallacies all over the place. CONFRONT (both of you) the thesis (the argument) and stop personally attacking ME. Maybe someone will pay attention to you here, including myself. YOUR latest posts prove that my argument cannot be proven wrong my your statements, hence you both commit a terrible but comon fallacy.
I will not continue to go around in circles with those who cannot even formulate a logical, University style argumentation.
Well to remember Aquinas’ teachings: “the PASSIONS are to be subjest to reason, and the Will.” PLEASE control your passions here in an adult way.
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Fergal:
Hi Misericordie,

Well I don’t believe in being confrontational. I just like to tease out my thoughts with those who are willing to listen and seriously consider my points. Of course I welcome the rebuttal which is always very necessary for the growth of both sides.

Now for my last few thoughts of this day!!! I will take your quotes in bold:

***Maybe you forgot one point: The sign of peace at NO mass is optional according to the rubrics themselves. ***

Of course I know this if you see my post I did say "the sign of Peace when included" Our weekday Masses in my old Parish never included it in weekday Masses but always put it into the Sunday Mass. So when it is included and we are offered the opportunity to offer the great gift of Peace to one another, why do we shut our eyes and say “No”??

***Furthermore you seem to compare Our Lord Jesus Christ with anyone, using an example from the NT which you here take out of its content. ***

No what I am trying to portray is the idea that the offering of Peace, even from Christ Almighty, was a physical gesture also. The giving of Peace to the prostitute, to Zaccheus, to the bleeding woman to the blind man etc. Jesus reached out to touch in order to give Peace. he has given us that Peace so that we now with his example reach out and offer Peace. The Apostoles and disciples when they met after the Ascension regularly embraced and offered each other Peace. And it was part of the Mass in the very early Church as I have pointed out below.

Thirdly, the "sign of peace is a fairly new practice which came to the no about 1977, or near the death of Pope Paul VI. Hence, if your arguments were true, then you mean to say that there was no unity or PEACE in the Church BEFORE Vatican II?

See that argument fails immediately especially for the lovers of the TLM. “Gregorian Chant” is traditionally named after Pope Gregory I (reigned 590-604). He has been credited with the development and codification of the Roman Catholic plainsong. Now before Gregorian Chant and the use of incense etc did our prayers not rise to God as well as they did in the TLM. Before these beautiful riches were introduced did God Almighty accept it to a lesser degree? Before these things were introduced did our Sanctuaries and our Churches not have the ambience of Heaven? Was our Holy Mass any less sacred? No.

What I mean to say is that until 1977 it was not an option for the people at Mass. At the Tridentine Solemn Mass, the Celebrant gave the kiss of peace to the Deacon, who gave it to the Subdeacon who gives it to the clergy present. Now it is an option for the Priest to invite the people to offer the sign of Peace. When he does exercise that option and include it, I don’t think we then have the option to opt out!

I am sure you know there has been talk that we should go back to the ‘kiss’ of peace in the new GIRM. Just imagine no shaking hands. I just hope they all remember to wash their teeth!!! :o

Lets take a look further back to the early Church. My post is continued…
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You know, since you are so respectful to me here, and you tackle NOT me but my arguments, I must say that You do have some good points to consider. This EVERYONE!!! IS CALLED MATURE DEBATE AND DIALOGUE, not a my way or highway attitude that certain other posters here love to engage in (out of PRIDE). Sincerely, fergal thanks. Your humility and love of GOD shows. Above all in your sincerity to love and serve the Church.
LOL, it is funny, I hope the kiss sign is NOT given, especially in the current climate in the Church thanks to liberals. In the meantime, I guess I personally (as well as a GROWING number of other YOUNG adults) will not have to SUFFER that, I will ONLY attend the INDULT Tridentine Latin Mass.
Blessings friend.
 
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Fergal:
Bear who did ya try to move???

I really felt I had to address the posts and was afrad the if I moved before misericordie that s(he) would not see them and respond.

Sorry if it was me you tried to move. I have gone there now.
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Actually, Mysty set up another thread for miscordie. On another thread on religious orders I asked him to start another thread to continue our debate since our debate was getting quite off topic and people’s on topic responses were getting lost in the sea of our posts. I’d gladly join in on another thread.
 
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misericordie:
Actually, if YOU can prove me wrong, as well as “bear” (he was going in circles busy attacking ME not my arguments) then I will freely wave a white flag. In the meantime, you as well as end especially “bear” are just jumping jacking fallacies all over the place. CONFRONT (both of you) the thesis (the argument) and stop personally attacking ME. Mayme someone will pay attention to you here, including myself. YOUR latest posts prove that my argument cannot be proven wrong my your satements, hence you both commit a terrible but comon fallacy.
I will not continue to go around in cirles with those who cannot even formulate a logical, University style argumentation.
Well to remember Aquinas’ teachings: “the PASSIONS are to be subjest to reason, and the Will.” PLEASE control your passions here in an adult way.
Click to expand...
To anyone reading this, please know that you are just seeing one side of the debate. Please feel free to read the bear/misericordie posts in the sacrament section under “Good Religious Orders” to make your own decisions. He somehow seems to think I did not reply to his “thesis”. Not only did I reply, I quoted him as I went! I also think you’ll be able to see exactly where the attacks come from.
 
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bear06:
To anyone reading this, please know that you are just seeing one side of the debate. Please feel free to read the bear/misericordie posts in the sacrament section under “Good Religious Orders” to make your own decisions. He somehow seems to think I did not reply to his “thesis”. Not only did I reply, I quoted him as I went! I also think you’ll be able to see exactly where the attacks come from.
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bear seems to be overly concerned in a very subjective way as to what others may think. :hmmm: Pride???:hmmm: :whistle:
 
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misericordie:
You know, since you are so respectful to me here, and you tackle NOT me but my arguments, I must say that You do have some good points to consider. This EVERYONE!!! IS CALLED MATURE DEBATE AND DIALOGUE, not a my way or highway attitude that certain other posters here love to engage in (out of PRIDE). Sincerely, fergal thanks. Your humility and love of GOD shows. Above all in your sincerity to love and serve the Church.
LOL, it is funny, I hope the kiss sign is NOT given, especially in the current climate in the Church thanks to liberals. In the meantime, I guess I personally (as well as a GROWING number of other YOUNG adults) will not have to SUFFER that, I will ONLY attend the INDULT Tridentine Latin Mass.
Blessings friend.
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Again, Thanks fergal for your objective and MATURE thesis.:clapping:
 
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misericordie:
Actually, if YOU can prove me wrong, CONFRONT (both of you) the thesis (the argument) and stop personally attacking ME. … YOUR latest posts prove that my argument cannot be proven wrong my your satements, hence you both commit a terrible but comon fallacy.
.
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My latest posts on this topic are in the liturgy thread where they belong.
misericordie
and stop personally attacking ME.
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Where did I personally attack you? I started a new thread for you to continue this off-topic discussion. I took your statement and answered it politely (with others confirming my response) You refused to move and continue to make such a rukus here that the original topic is lost.

Who is showing ill-will toward whom?

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_103v.gif (over to the liturgy forum)
 
Reception on the tongue now leads 33/29.

Interesting though—most who receive in the hand receive the cup, while most who receive on the tongue refuse the cup.

This poll does not reflect the pattern in my parish at all.

Very few receive on the tongue in my Parish, and the percentage who receive the cup is not as high as those who receive in the hand in this poll.

How about anyone else?
 
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misericordie:
bear seems to be overly concerned in a very subjective way as to what others may think. :hmmm: Pride???:hmmm: :whistle:
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No, that would be me wanting the rest of the folks to notice that you never answer the questions asked, make red-herring arguments and do what you accuse others of so that they can see that your arguments don’t hold water. If they just read through the thread suggested, I’m sure they can figure it all out.

You constantly put yourself as the judge of who is Catholic, a priest, a bishop or what is a real order, etc. I’m not sure how you can deny this when it’s a constant theme in most of your threads. All anyone has to do is read through your posts.

Besides this, your favorite tactic is to try and bait people into chewing you out so you can point out how mean they are. Hopefully this will save people some time when dealing with you.
 
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bear06:
No, that would be me wanting the rest of the folks to notice that you never answer the questions asked, make red-herring arguments and do what you accuse others of so that they can see that your arguments don’t hold water. If they just read through the thread suggested, I’m sure they can figure it all out.

You constantly put yourself as the judge of who is Catholic, a priest, a bishop or what is a real order, etc. I’m not sure how you can deny this when it’s a constant theme in most of your threads. All anyone has to do is read through your posts.

Besides this, your favorite tactic is to try and bait people into chewing you out so you can point out how mean they are. Hopefully this will save people some time when dealing with you.
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :cool: HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAA, This just proved my POINT EVERYONE: Thanks bear. Here he goes: his prideful attacks on ME: FALLACY, FALLACY, and MORE FALLACY.;):dancing:
 
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Mysty101:
Reception on the tongue now leads 33/29.

Interesting though—most who receive in the hand receive the cup, while most who receive on the tongue refuse the cup.

This poll does not reflect the pattern in my parish at all.

Very few receive on the tongue in my Parish, and the percentage who receive the cup is not as high as those who receive in the hand in this poll.

How about anyone else?
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You must really like cartoons, you constantly put them in your threads. Secondly, let me correct your dimminishing of the Eucharistic sacraments: it is NOT the “cup” it is the Chalice. Funny how you are keeping a competitive count on the manner people recieve communion: wow, talk about a left wing modernism agenda:whistle: .
 
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Mysty101:
Interesting though—most who receive in the hand receive the cup, while most who receive on the tongue refuse the cup.
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I don’t find this pattern that remarkable. For one, if someone regularly attends an indult Mass according to the 1962 Missal, then one only receives the Host, and only on the tongue, so there should be a relatively high correlation (especially when these same people attend a Missa Normativa Mass (and receive the Eucharist in the same manner).
 
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misericordie:
You must really like cartoons, you constantly put them in your threads. Secondly, let me correct your dimminishing of the Eucharistic sacraments: it is NOT the “cup” it is the Chalice. Funny how you are keeping a competitive count on the manner people recieve communion: wow, talk about a left wing modernism agenda:whistle: .
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“This is the cup of My Blood, which will be shed for you…”
 
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Fergal:
… In the primitive church at Rome and in the Eastern Church
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, …

(Citing sources is important cptryon.org/ask/ask/signpeace.html though also easy to forget.)
My first communion was received on the tongue in the 70’s. I continued to receive on the tongue for years after - our parish at the time had the communion rails and all knelt to receive.

That said, I now receive communion in the hand, and have no qualms about it. Reverence can be shown whether in the hand, or on the tongue. And I believe it is reverence and a proper attitude towards our Lord and Savior that is most important. I no longer receive the blood because I can no longer have alcohol.

For those who rail against communion in the hand, or against communion on the tongue, remember that we are not discussing doctrine but practice. And practices can and do change - whether we agree or not, and whether we like them or not.

Both forms of reception are allowed, and it is up to the individual how they will receive.

Should the forms change and communion in the hand be forbidden (which I personally doubt) I would follow the Church.

I understand why individuals choose communion on the tongue, but my choice was made after several incidents. I would hope that others would respect my right to receive in the hand without treating me like a leper.

MC
 
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