Tongues/Languages/Charismatic renewal

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Mikaele

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I’m friends with many members of the Catholic Charismatic renewal, and I respect them very much, I just have a few questions which I feel were adequately answered at some retreats I attended recently.
  1. Are the ‘‘tongues’’ referred to in the N.T simply just language? for e.g. when the Apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they spoke their own languages and the crowd understood in their own tongues, they didn’t pray in random gibberish
  2. Is this method of prayer apostolic? I haven’t heard of the same phenoma amongst any of the well known Saints (Padre Pio and Mother Teresa never went into this kind of random vocal prayer) or this a Protestant invention?
  3. Is the “slaying in the Spirit” an actual spiritual experience inspired by the Holy Spirit? or is it an emotional response to the charismatic atmosphere? (the music, the hype, the preaching, the physical touch of the people praying over the participant?)
  4. Is all the emotion overcharge dangerous for people participating who may not be formed in the teachings of the Catholic Church?
  5. Is it fully supported by the Catholic Church? or is it something that is still being investigated?
In advance I thank you for you answers to my questions, I am supportive of the charismatic renewal as I think in my limited knowledge of the Church and experience that it is good for bringing people to an initial experience of Christ. God bless.
 
This will answer one question at least 🙂
The initial reaction to the movement by the Church hierarchy was cautiously supportive. Some initially supported it as being a harbinger of ecumenism (greater unity of Gospel witness among the different Christian traditions). It was thought that these practices would draw the Catholic Church and Protestant communities closer together in a truly spiritual ecumenism. Today, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal enjoys the strong support of the hierarchy, from the Pope to bishops of dioceses around the world, as an officially recognized ecclesial movement.
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Three popes have acknowledged the movement: Pope Paul VI , Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Pope John Paul II stated that the movement was integral to the renewal of the entire Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II (as well as then Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI) acknowledged good aspects of the movement while urging caution, pointing out members must maintain their link to the Catholic Church.
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Pope John Paul II, in particular, made a number of statements on the movement. On November 30, 1990, The Pontifical Council for the Laity promulgated the decree which inaugurated the Catholic Fraternity of Covenant Communities and Fellowships. Brian Smith of Brisbane, elected President of the Executive of the Fraternity, called the declaration the most significant event in the history of the charismatic renewal since the 1975 Holy Year international conference and the acknowledgment it received from Pope Paul VI at that time, saying ‘It is the first time that the Renewal has had formal, canonical recognition by the Vatican.’
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In March 1992, Pope John Paul II stated At this moment in the Church’s history, the Charismatic Renewal can play a significant role in promoting the much-needed defense of Christian life in societies where secularism and materialism have weakened many people’s ability to respond to the Spirit and to discern God’s loving call. Your contribution to the re-evangelization of society will be made in the first place by personal witness to the indwelling Spirit and by showing forth His presence through works of holiness and solidarity.
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Moreover, during Pentecost 1998, the Pope recognized the essential nature of the charismatic dimension:
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“The institutional and charismatic aspects are co-essential as it were to the Church’s constitution. They contribute, although differently, to the life, renewal and sanctification of God’s People. It is from this providential rediscovery of the Church’s charismatic dimension that, before and after the Council, a remarkable pattern of growth has been established for ecclesial movements and new communities.”
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The Papal Preacher, Rev. Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, has written on the topic numerous times since 1986.
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Pope Benedict XVI affirmed the Charismatic Renewal during 2008.
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Source

and here is some info on the movement

catholiccharismatic.us/
 
You ask a number of questions which are better separated. You will also receive much disinformation about the charismatic gifts, which have been around since the beginning of the Church.
The first time I heard somebody praying in tongues, I too thought it was gibberish, that the Apostles spoke in their native tongue and that each member of the audience heard them in his/her own language. A closer reading of the Pentecost story shows how many thought these men were “drunk.” They were “drunk,” not on wine, but on the Holy Spirit who led them to speak in languages in which they were not trained.
I had no idea that I was about to face the biggest crisis of my life. It is this crisis that led me on retreat and into the Charismatic Renewal. The result of my Baptism in the Holy Spirit meant I began to sing in an unknown tongue. My natural voice remains as it always has been, flat and out of tune. That is not the case when I sing in tongues.
Note here that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is not a new Sacrament. Every Catholic has already received the power of the Holy Spirit by virtue of our Baptism and Confirmation. Unfortunately many have never opened the gifts received, have not experienced in a personal way the awesome power of God at work in their lives.
I live and work in the Persian Gulf. Last night the different parish Charismatic groups gathered together. We prayed together in Malayam, Konkani, Tagalong, Tamil, and English. This gathering was greeted by the parish priest. After praise the spiritual director of the English Charismatic group spoke about how Charismatic expression is a normal way of praise. There was humor in his talk. A crazy person still thinks he’s normal. While it may appear to those unfamiliar with the Renewal that we are “drunk,” or “crazy,” we are not.
The Renewal begins with personal conversion that leads to the renewal of the family, the community, and the Church. Father compared the Charismatic Renewal to the mission of St. Francis. St. Francis began his mission by rebuilding the church at San Damiano. He rebuilt other churches around Assisi as his larger mission revealed itself. There have been other movements within the Church led by individuals such as St. Francis and St. Ignatius. Both men were led by the Holy Spirit. The Charismatic Renewal is completely a work of the Holy Spirit.
The structure of our prayer meetings promotes our Catholic identity.
 
Mikaele said:
1
) Are the ‘‘tongues’’ referred to in the N.T simply just language? for e.g. when the Apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they spoke their own languages and the crowd understood in their own tongues, they didn’t pray in random gibberish
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Jesus said, “I am the vine, you are the branches. Apart from me, you can do nothing.”
Charisms have been a part of the Catholic Church from its very being. They are mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. They are special graces that God bestows on His people. In the history of the Church, the most common gift mentioned is healing.
If we did not need God, if we were capable of avoiding sin through our own efforts, and hard work, then Christ would not have needed to die for us. He promised an advocate. He also said that God would give His Holy Spirit to any who asked. This gift of the Holy Spirit makes it possible for each of us to withstand the temptations that we face each and every day of our lives. Should we sin, it is the Holy Spirit who convicts us of the sin that leads to the Sacrament of Reconciliation seeking once more the forgiveness, absolution, and grace to withstand future sin. The gifts of the Holy Spirit, as wondrous as they may be, are meant for the up-building of God’s kingdom.
Those of us who have been gifted with these special graces find our lives changed in ways that we could never have imagined. As my parish calendar says, changed lives change the world.

One of the Charismatic gifts seldom addressed on these forums is the gift of discernment. This gift takes time to develop, but is an essential part of the Renewal. Any prophesy spoken during a meeting is subject to this discernment. Discernment means separating that which is of God from that which is not.
Jesus said, “My sheep know my voice. They will not follow another.”
 
Mikaele said:
I’m friends with many members of the Catholic Charismatic renewal, and I respect them very much, I just have a few questions which I feel were adequately answered at some retreats I attended recently.
  1. Are the ‘‘tongues’’ referred to in the N.T simply just language? for e.g. when the Apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they spoke their own languages and the crowd understood in their own tongues, they didn’t pray in random gibberish
  2. Is this method of prayer apostolic? I haven’t heard of the same phenoma amongst any of the well known Saints (Padre Pio and Mother Teresa never went into this kind of random vocal prayer) or this a Protestant invention?
  3. Is the “slaying in the Spirit” an actual spiritual experience inspired by the Holy Spirit? or is it an emotional response to the charismatic atmosphere? (the music, the hype, the preaching, the physical touch of the people praying over the participant?)
  4. Is all the emotion overcharge dangerous for people participating who may not be formed in the teachings of the Catholic Church?
  5. Is it fully supported by the Catholic Church? or is it something that is still being investigated?
In advance I thank you for you answers to my questions, I am supportive of the charismatic renewal as I think in my limited knowledge of the Church and experience that it is good for bringing people to an initial experience of Christ. God bless.
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More novelty.
 
Mikaele said:
  1. Is the “slaying in the Spirit” an actual spiritual experience inspired by the Holy Spirit? or is it an emotional response to the charismatic atmosphere? (the music, the hype, the preaching, the physical touch of the people praying over the participant?)
.
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Emotional response.
 
Mikaele said:
I’m friends with many members of the Catholic Charismatic renewal, and I respect them very much, I just have a few questions which I feel were adequately answered at some retreats I attended recently.
  1. Are the ‘‘tongues’’ referred to in the N.T simply just language? for e.g. when the Apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they spoke their own languages and the crowd understood in their own tongues, they didn’t pray in random gibberish
  2. Is this method of prayer apostolic? I haven’t heard of the same phenoma amongst any of the well known Saints (Padre Pio and Mother Teresa never went into this kind of random vocal prayer) or this a Protestant invention?
  3. Is the “slaying in the Spirit” an actual spiritual experience inspired by the Holy Spirit? or is it an emotional response to the charismatic atmosphere? (the music, the hype, the preaching, the physical touch of the people praying over the participant?)
  4. Is all the emotion overcharge dangerous for people participating who may not be formed in the teachings of the Catholic Church?
  5. Is it fully supported by the Catholic Church? or is it something that is still being investigated?
In advance I thank you for you answers to my questions, I am supportive of the charismatic renewal as I think in my limited knowledge of the Church and experience that it is good for bringing people to an initial experience of Christ. God bless.
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What is the liturgical tradition of the chraismatic mass? Was that part of Holy Mass 500 years, 1000 years or 2000 years ago?
 
The “strange tongues” mentioned in the Bible are simply foreign (but real) languages. The gibberish that people today in those charismatic groups speak is just that - GIBBERISH. It is fake.
So many people claim to be able to speak in tongues (the gibberish one) but ask any of them if they have submitted themselves to the Church to discern if they really do have such a gift and you will find that none of them will submit to the Church. Only the Church can discern if a person has genuine gift. None of the gibberish speakers dare to submit to the Church because they would be shown up as frauds.
 
It’s called glossolalia. It’s an emotional outpouring that psychologically manifests in gibberrish. It’s a way your mind copes with emotional stress.

Remember, the Catholic Charismatic movement was founded in disobedience to the Church/ College Catholic kids attended protestant prayer groups and got prayed over to receive the holy spirit. 1967.

Are you kidding me? THere is no grace outside the church, so first this is an act of denial of the Catholic church ALONE as being founded by God, second, it’s a denial of the truth that the Holy SPirit is not given outside the church (Dogma), and it’s direct disobedience!

The Charismatic renewal is…

choke
 
If glossolalia were simply an emotional response to stress, it would fade or disappear after the stress disappeared. Members of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal have indeed submitted their lives to Jesus Christ through His Church. They remain faithful to the magisterium. Many attend Mass daily and receive the Sacraments regularly. Prayer life includes not only praise, but the LOTH and traditional private devotions such as the rosary.
Many of the young men being called to the priesthood today come out of the Charismatic Renewal. It is not unusual for a person witnessing about his/her entry into the Charismatic Renewal to describe an increased desire to read the Bible, and how the scriptural passages become alive and have a greater impact on his/her life. They are more than simple words on a page.

The special graces which God bestows on His people are mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The United States Catechism of the Catholic Church mentions not only the gifts, but different movements of the Holy Spirit working among and in His people. The Charismatic Renewal is only one such movement.

I was praying about how to answer the question as to why “the gifts faded” and only now are being manifested again. I do not want to go through Church history. There are other people who are more knowledgeable. Moreover it is my desire to avoid any quibbling which would distract from the OP.
It is often stated that the gifts are for the unbelieving, not the believing. Those who believe need no outward signs. The early Church was born during a time of paganism. Non-believers could see the amazing acts of the early Christians. Today, the Faith of our Fathers has been replaced in many cases by secularism. Could our witness to those who have rejected God be the reason for this outpouring?
God does what He wills in Heaven and on earth.

I do know that as a child I was enthralled by stories of saints who healed, who heard God speak to them personally, or who saw Mary. I wondered what it would be like, never expecting to be so gifted.
 
There are three types of gift of tongue that are mentioned in the NT.

(1) Speaking in tongue as happened in Acts 2 during the Pentecost is quite straight forward. A person who does not speak the language speaks it and is understood by others. This gift usually does not need discernment as the manifestation is obvious. He is filled with the Holy Spirit and speaks in other tongues as the Spirit enables him. The others hear him in their native language. As it was during the Pentecost for the apostles, this is for the purpose of declaring the wonders of God in the listeners’ own tongues (languages).

(2) The charismatic gift of speaking in tongue as in 1 Cor 12 requires discernment as to whether it is authentic or not. The person who discerns has to have the gift of discernment. This type of speaking in tongue must always be accompanied by another person who is able to interpret it. The purpose is also to edify the body by hearing the prophecy that comes for God.

(3) Praying in tongue as in Rom 8:26-27 is probably the ‘gibberish’. The person does not know what he is saying but prays it anyway because the Holy Spirit helps him in words he cannot understand. This happens when a person does not know how to pray and so the Holy Spirit himself intercedes for him through ‘wordless groans’. For he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. However, there is good that comes out of all this as Paul says in 1 Cor 14:4, “Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves”.

Paul mentioned about the gift of tongue and exhorted us not to forbid speaking in it though he cautioned that everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. (1 Cor 14:39-40).
 
Gregory_I said:
Remember, the Catholic Charismatic movement was founded in disobedience to the Church/ College Catholic kids attended protestant prayer groups and got prayed over to receive the holy spirit. 1967.

Are you kidding me? THere is no grace outside the church, so first this is an act of denial of the Catholic church ALONE as being founded by God, second, it’s a denial of the truth that the Holy SPirit is not given outside the church (Dogma), and it’s direct disobedience!

The Charismatic renewal is…

choke
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You may not agree with them but by that comment and insinuation probably you’re against the rule of the Forum.
 
Gregory_I said:
It’s called glossolalia. It’s an emotional outpouring that psychologically manifests in gibberrish. It’s a way your mind copes with emotional stress.

Remember, the Catholic Charismatic movement was founded in disobedience to the Church/ College Catholic kids attended protestant prayer groups and got prayed over to receive the holy spirit. 1967.

Are you kidding me? THere is no grace outside the church, so first this is an act of denial of the Catholic church ALONE as being founded by God, second, it’s a denial of the truth that the Holy SPirit is not given outside the church (Dogma), and it’s direct disobedience!

The Charismatic renewal is…

choke
Click to expand...
Better tell the Papal Household Preacher that. I am sure he will be interested to know that he is preaching heresy. Good luck with that.

And what you have posted goes directly against Church teaching.
There certainly is grace outside the Church. The Holy Spirit blows where He Wills.
 
THat’s history, that’s the facts. College kids approached protestant clergy ina revival meeting for laying on of hands.

You tell me that’s not problematic?🤷

THere is only one church of the faithful, outside of which absolutely no one is saved. Dogma.

THe Holy Spirit is not given outside the Church. Dogma.

🤷

Therefore what spirit did these college kids come in contact with?

I suggest a reading of the history of Montanism and “The New Prophecy”. Alot of parallels.
 
The movement is a movement that I will continue to stay far far away form, not so much because it’s evil, it is not. But more because I feel that one joins these movements so that they too may learn how to speak in “tongues”. I really doubt the Holy Spirit gives the gift of tongues to everyone who ask for it, this gift are for a certain few. Most of the speaking is gibberish it’s simply psychological. But regardless, this movement may be good for some and it has produce some good fruit, if this was not the case our Popes would have stopped this movement in its track. Are there people who do or have used it for bad? Of course just like any other movement in the Church. When you pray to God, he will give you what you need in order to reach salvation and spread the word, not what you want this would include tongues. In my opinion this movement will become very small part in the Church within 20 to 30 years it is more a products of its times, and a new movement will replace it.
 
Strictly speaking, Catholic Charismatic Renewal is not a movement per se. It is more of a phenomenon. It is about Catholics who are being renewed in their faith by the Holy Spirit, who is the renewing agent. It is after their renewal experience that they become active in the church and join movements. Some of the movements that they join need not necessarily be charismatic in nature. By their account the Renewal has affected more than two hundred million Catholics worldwide and that figure was about ten years old, so it still can be updated today.

Tongue, as it is the thread’s title, is quite controversial because, well, as Catholics we do not see this. In truth, not all of them have this gift, in fact the gift of speaking in tongue is hardly seen at all. Most charismatic groups do not have this. So it is a misunderstanding to say that this gift is prevalent among them. What is more common is the praying (or singing) in tongue. However, it is not uncommon for many of the Charismatic who do not have this gift at all. Maybe this needs to be noted here so that when we talk about speaking in tongue it will be for that exception rather than a rule.

What is more important is the renewal of their faith, the awakening in their belief. Thus this affects those Catholics who are not-practicing and lapsed. When they are renewed, they rediscover their Catholic faith and love for God and this change their lives. When we see those in the Charismatic Renewal today we thought they are veteran fervent Catholics but actually all of them do have their own story of personal conversion to tell. Those Catholics who are already very good and holy, these do not need renewal. And that’s why these can rightly feel insulted by this renewal that’s going on simply because they do not have any need for it.

Yes, many believe that the phenomenon of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal will fizzle out eventually after most Catholics are renewed and more so because the wind of the Holy Spirit that blows do move on; it does not come back for those who do not catch the opportunity when it comes to pass.

God bless.
 
Reuben rightly states what the Renewal is about. It is about personal conversion, a life that is changed to be more in conformity with Christ.
When I was new to the Renewal, I heard a story about a Carmelite nun who questioned the importance of tongues. After all, she already had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and spent long hours in contemplation. Her prayer was simple, “If this is from you, Lord, how can I refuse?” The result of her prayer, and consequent receipt of the gift was deeper contemplation reached sooner than in the past.
St. Paul describes the gift of tongues as the least of the gifts. That does not make the gift unimportant since in order to receive the gift one must first be open to the gifts which God has for each of us. It is receiving this “least of the gifts” that one finds himself or herself more open to any other gifts that God may wish to bestow. In other words, in order to receive God’s special graces, one must first be open to the Holy Spirit, submitting personal will to the Will of God.
We are called to be a light to the world, and salt of the earth. Our light is to be set on a lamp stand, not hidden under a barrel. Like a candle, our light shines only as we ourselves diminish. As John the Baptist said, “I must decrease that He might increase.”

As Catholics, when we speak of the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit,” we are not talking about a new Sacrament. We speak of the gifts that each of us has already received by virtue of our Baptism and Confirmation. A common analogy is that of electricity. You cannot receive light from an electrical lamp without it first being plugged in to an active circuit. Even then, it will not work until somebody flips the switch. With the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the light is switched on. Speaking in tongues is only one of the manifestations.
 
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