Tongues?

  • Thread starter Thread starter RaiseMeUp
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

RaiseMeUp

Guest
Ok, I do not deny any charisms of the Holy Spirit such as tongues. However - From what i have read in scripture, it seems there comes a point where tongues arent really mentioned anymore. And from other readings, it seems like it was used then to form the Church. Now my friend puts a lot of emphasis on tongues - and this community its often you’ll hear someone speaking in “tongues” during the service. And I try not to be judgmental or negative in thought towards them, but my friend puts belief in tongues here as the spirit talking through people yet hes suspicious of the Catholic Church because of what he experienced in one church in Costa Rica - But anyway aren’t tongues mostly seen in Protestant/Pentecostal churches these days??? 🤷
 
The gift of tongues is recognized within the Catholic Church as a charism of the Holy Spirit. However, the Catholic Church does not place as much emphasis as many other non-main stream churches do. St. Paul called this gift of the Holy Spirt, the least of the gifts, not that we should be ungrateful for any gift that we receive from God. However, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are meant for the upbuilding of the body of Christ. The gift of tongues is an outward sign. What is more important is the change in inward disposition, the transformation that is taking place within a person’s life, and how the person is becoming more Christlike in his or her daily life. Yes, many Catholics do possess this gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
The gift of tongues is recognized within the Catholic Church as a charism of the Holy Spirit. However, the Catholic Church does not place as much emphasis as many other non-main stream churches do. St. Paul called this gift of the Holy Spirt, the least of the gifts, not that we should be ungrateful for any gift that we receive from God. However, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are meant for the upbuilding of the body of Christ. The gift of tongues is an outward sign. What is more important is the change in inward disposition, the transformation that is taking place within a person’s life, and how the person is becoming more Christlike in his or her daily life. Yes, many Catholics do possess this gift of the Holy Spirit.
Yes, OP, this. It’s just one of several charisms that Paul mentions. And if you read what Paul says about speaking in tongues you’ll notice that he is of the opinion that speaking in tongues isn’t really useful to others unless there is someone present who can understand it, and that prophecy would be the preference.

1Cor 14
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Cor%2014&version=RSVCE
 
The Church also doesn’t seem to have an official teaching on what the gift of tongues actually is. I am in the same boat as former Oneness Pentecostal, now Catholic Apologist, Tim Staples in that tongues has to do with actual earthly languages and not that which sounds like unearthly gibberish (no offense to those who disagree). I believe this given the context of how I see the gift of tongues used in the Bible.

I do not doubt that it is a gift of the Holy Spirit, but just not how it seems to be portrayed by many Pentecostal churches.
 
The Church also doesn’t seem to have an official teaching on what the gift of tongues actually is. I am in the same boat as former Oneness Pentecostal, now Catholic Apologist, Tim Staples in that tongues has to do with actual earthly languages and not that which sounds like unearthly gibberish (no offense to those who disagree). I believe this given the context of how I see the gift of tongues used in the Bible.

I do not doubt that it is a gift of the Holy Spirit, but just not how it seems to be portrayed by many Pentecostal churches.
during the apostolic age, when the primitive church was trying to grow, the ability to preach in different languages (Pentecost-style tongues) helped this goal. today’s babbling tongues – assuming you can separate out the mentally ill – how does this help?
 
during the apostolic age, when the primitive church was trying to grow, the ability to preach in different languages (Pentecost-style tongues) helped this goal. today’s babbling tongues – assuming you can separate out the mentally ill – how does this help?
From what I’ve been able to see, tongues is when the gifted person speaks in their own language, but someone listening to him hears it in their own language. This isn’t what I observe today from people claiming the gift of tongues. I also don’t think that people who claim to have this babbling gift of tongues to be mentally ill, just misguided in a false belief. As Tim Staples said himself, “I really believed at the time that I was speaking in tongues” “I just said the first sounds that came to mind”. I don’t doubt their sincerity in wanting to be gifted with tongues (it’s a pretty cool gift), but I think they have just been misguided in how the gift works.
 
From what I’ve been able to see, tongues is when the gifted person speaks in their own language, but someone listening to him hears it in their own language. This isn’t what I observe today from people claiming the gift of tongues. I also don’t think that people who claim to have this babbling gift of tongues to be mentally ill, just misguided in a false belief. As Tim Staples said himself, “I really believed at the time that I was speaking in tongues” “I just said the first sounds that came to mind”. I don’t doubt their sincerity in wanting to be gifted with tongues (it’s a pretty cool gift), but I think they have just been misguided in how the gift works.
don’t get me wrong. I say that some who babble incomprehensibly “in tongues” are mentally ill. as for the others? the Church neither condemns nor requires belief that this is motivated by the HS so I use my own judgment here.
 
How would you explain a person speaking in a language he never knew, heard or even recognised being understood by a person who did? This happened to a priest friend of mine who was prompted to try praying in tongues so he started making sounds at the same time thinking that it was all foolishness. Until after two people orginally from eastern Europe came and thanked him for the wonderful prayer in their old language.

Does our spirit need our human intellect to utter praise to God? I believe that the Gift of tongues is valid but as St. Paul says of limited use to the whole community. It is a personal gift in which our spirits can pray when our brains and bodies can’t. IMHO
 
How would you explain a person speaking in a language he never knew, heard or even recognised being understood by a person who did? This happened to a priest friend of mine who was prompted to try praying in tongues so he started making sounds at the same time thinking that it was all foolishness. Until after two people orginally from eastern Europe came and thanked him for the wonderful prayer in their old language.

Does our spirit need our human intellect to utter praise to God? I believe that the Gift of tongues is valid but as St. Paul says of limited use to the whole community. It is a personal gift in which our spirits can pray when our brains and bodies can’t. IMHO
A story I heard years ago was of a Carmelite nun who questioned why she should want the gift the tongues. After all, she already had an intimate relationship with God. She reasoned, “Lord, if it is from you then why would I refuse?” She discovered that after praying in as few as ten minutes in tongues, also called “praying in the Spirit,” that she could reach the comtempletive state that before had taken hours of prayer time to reach.
When we pray in tongues, the devil cannot interfere with our prayer for it is indeed the Holy Spirit who is interceding on our behalf. This form of prayer is useful when we do not know how to pray, and especially when we are seeking discernment in a difficult situation. Praying in tongues is often done privately. It may also be part of a praise and worship service. This is where there may be prophecy spoken in tongues that requires interpretation, and a person who has been gifted with the charism of interpetation of the tongues. St. Paul does write in his letters about how this second form of tongues must be orderly in the assembly. It is prophecy, either spoken in tongues and interpreted or spoken in a person’s native language that helps build up the community.
Tongues, as prayer builds up the individual, helping him or her to be transformed so that he or she can be a better contributing member of the Body of Christ.
 
…
When we pray in tongues, the devil cannot interfere with our prayer for it is indeed the Holy Spirit who is interceding on our behalf. This form of prayer is useful when we do not know how to pray, and especially when we are seeking discernment in a difficult situation. Praying in tongues is often done privately. It may also be part of a praise and worship service. This is where there may be prophecy spoken in tongues that requires interpretation, and a person who has been gifted with the charism of interpetation of the tongues. St. Paul does write in his letters about how this second form of tongues must be orderly in the assembly. It is prophecy, either spoken in tongues and interpreted or spoken in a person’s native language that helps build up the community.
Tongues, as prayer builds up the individual, helping him or her to be transformed so that he or she can be a better contributing member of the Body of Christ.
I just don’t buy it – until the Church commands belief.
 
My personal opinion is that all these people talking in gibberish are simply fakes. It is totally meaningless and seems to be an ego thing.
 
'Paul teaches that tongue-speaking is a gift of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:4,10-11). Paul therefore does not prohibit tongue-speaking (1 Cor. 14:39) and even encourages it (1 Cor. 14:5) when received according to his parameters.

However, Paul warns us that tongue-speaking is not always a gift of the Spirit, but may originate out of spiritual pride and immaturity. This is why Paul called the Corinthians immature (1 Cor. 3:1-3; 14:20), and said they were seeking the wisdom of men and not God (1 Cor. 2:5,13; 3:18). Many people in the Corinthian church claimed to have the gift of tongues, but were actually mimicking the divine gift in order to gain ascendancy in the church. This caused arrogance, dissensions and jealousies among them (1 Cor. 1:10-13; 3:3; 4:6-7,18; 5:2; 11:17-22).

Tongue-speaking can also have demonic origins. When people are unfaithful and motivated by pride and not love for God, God can allow demons to enter the church to punish the unfaithful. These demons can appear holy and good, and inspire tongue-speaking and other speech, but they are really deceivers who wish to confuse the faithful and lead them away from the truth (cf. Ezek. 14:6-11; 1 Kings 22:22-23). Paul warns that some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). This is why John tells us to “test the spirits to see whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

Therefore, tongue-speaking can be a gift of the Holy Spirit, or may be of human or demonic origin. Paul makes several important points regarding the gift of tongues:

1 – The gift of tongues is a lesser gift from God. While speaking in tongues is a gift of the Spirit, Paul teaches that it is a lesser gift on the continuum of divine gifts from God (1 Cor. 12:10,28,30). For example, Paul says that tongues is a much lesser gift than the gift of prophecy (1 Cor. 14:1-5,19,22). In fact, the gift of tongues is not even mentioned among the gifts of the Spirit in the latter books of the New Testament (Rom. 12:4-8; Eph. 4:11-12; Gal. 5:22; 1 Peter 4:7-11; 1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6).

2 – The gift of tongues will cease. Paul says “as for tongues, they will cease” (1 Cor. 13:8). The Greek word for “cease” (pauomai) means that the gift of tongues will end abruptly, on its own, and will not be replaced by another gift. The gift of tongues is the only gift of the Holy Spirit that is said to “cease” in this way. When Paul says that prophecies and knowledge will “pass away” (1 Cor. 13:8), the phrase “pass away” (in Greek, katargeo) indicates that these gifts will be replaced by a superior power. This appears to take place when we begin our life in eternity (1 Cor. 13:10-12). Not so with tongues.

Paul does not say when the gift of tongues would cease, and whether the gift would return intermittently after its cessation. However, Augustine wrote that the gift of tongues had ceased by the time of his day. Augustine explained that this was because the Catholic Church now spoke the language of the nations, and tongue-speaking was only for purposes of evangelization (Aquinas agreed). The fact that the gift of tongues is not recorded in later books of the New Testament suggest that the gift may have even been ceasing during the biblical period.

Nevertheless, there are a few recorded instances of saints speaking in tongues over the centuries (Sts. Dominic, Anthony of Padua, Francis Xavier, John of the Cross, Ignatius of Loyola). This demonstrates that the gift of tongues is very rare, and given to the holiest of people.’

ScriptureCatholic
 
B]'3 – Tongue-speaking has strict parameters. Finally, Paul prescribed strict parameters for those who would receive the gift of tongues:

(a) The person who speaks in tongues should pray for the power to interpret his own tongue (1 Cor. 14:13), or have someone who has the gift of interpretation present to interpret the tongue (1 Cor. 14:27). If the tongue cannot be interpreted, the person is to remain silent (1 Cor. 14:28). Therefore, tongues should not be unintelligible utterances, but should be understood (1 Cor. 14:6-12).
Code:
        (b) In a congregation, only two or three people at most should speak in tongues (1 Cor. 14:27), and each must speak in turn.  This is the case even though there may be hundreds or even thousands of people in a church.  The many Protestant churches that call upon many people, even hundreds during a service, to speak in tongues contravenes Paul’s divine mandate, and raises doubts about its authenticity.

        (c) The tongue-speaking must be done for the edification of the Church (1 Cor. 14:5,26).  Paul says that a person who speaks in tongues edifies himself (1 Cor. 14:4) which is good, but Paul also says tongues must edify the Church. This is why Paul requires one to interpret the tongue, and why Paul says only two or three at the most should speak in tongues during an assembly.  A mass proliferation of tongue-speaking in an assembly would lead to confusion.  This would not be of divine origin because Paul says, in connection with tongue-speaking, that God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33).

        (d) After setting the parameters of tongue-speaking and warning against avoiding confusion, Paul says that “women should keep silence in the churches.  For they are not permitted to speak but should be subordinate, even as the law says” (1 Cor. 14:34).  This means that women are not allowed to speak in tongues in church.  Paul is underscoring that this is a divine command from God when he ends his statement with “even as the law says.”  Again, many Protestant churches contravene this divine command by allowing women to speak “in tongues” in their assemblies. 

        (e)  Paul teaches that a proliferation of tongue-speaking in a church may actually be a sign of unbelief and God’s ensuing judgment upon them.  When Paul teaches the Corinthians about the proper use of tongues (1 Cor. 14:21), he quotes from Isaiah 28:11-12: “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”  Paul’s use of Isaiah is significant because he is referring to the apostate Jews of the 8th century right before they were destroyed by the Assyrians.  To punish the Jews, God first allowed the Assyrians to speak in foreign tongues to them to confuse them before they were ultimately destroyed. God’s judgment being revealed in the form of foreign tongues was first prophesied to Israel in the 15th century, B.C. (see Deut. 28:49-50).  Remember also how God sent unintelligible tongues to punish His people for their lack of faith at the tower of Babel (Genesis 11).
Therefore, Paul is warning the Corinthians that their abuse of tongue-speaking is a sign of God’s judgment against them. These abuses included many people speaking in tongues, out of turn, without an interpreter, and for pride and not the edification of the church. This is why Paul says that “tongues are a sign…for unbelievers” (1 Cor. 14:22). This is the same “sign” that God gave the unbelieving Jews before they were punished.

This is also why Paul says that unbelievers look at the whole Corinthian church speaking in tongues and conclude that they “are mad” (1 Cor. 14:23). Paul is telling the Corinthians that their abuse of tongues makes them look insane, and this is a sign of their unbelief (that is why tongues are a “sign for unbelievers”; the “unbelievers” were the Corinthians themselves). This is the same reason why Jesus spoke in parables, to further harden the hearts of those who did not believe in Him, as a punishment for their lack of faith (Matt. 13:13-15).’

Scripture Catholic
 
CCC2003…There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul meaning “favor,” “gratuituous gift,” “benefit.” Whatever their character–sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues—charisms are oriented toward santifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church . They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.

The outward manifestation of tongues in a person’s life is less important, than the inner tranformation that is taking place as he or she becomes more conformed to what Christ would have the person become. As St. John the Baptist said, “I must decrease that He might increase.”
 
How would you explain a person speaking in a language he never knew, heard or even recognised being understood by a person who did? This happened to a priest friend of mine who was prompted to try praying in tongues so he started making sounds at the same time thinking that it was all foolishness. Until after two people orginally from eastern Europe came and thanked him for the wonderful prayer in their old language.

Does our spirit need our human intellect to utter praise to God? I believe that the Gift of tongues is valid but as St. Paul says of limited use to the whole community. It is a personal gift in which our spirits can pray when our brains and bodies can’t. IMHO
Absolutely, yes! I know this to be true personally.

mlz
 
From what i have read in scripture, it seems there comes a point where tongues arent really mentioned anymore.
Speaking in known tongues (where the speaker is talking in his own native language, but others hear and understand him in their native language) is mentioned in the Book of Acts. It’s the Biblical version of the Star Trek Universal Translator. This was a sign that all humanity is to be united in Christ, and did the opposite of what happened at the Tower of Babel (where different languages divided humanity).

Speaking in unknown tongues is mentioned only in the First Epistle to the Corinthians (it was not mentioned in 2Cor or anywhere else). The practice was causing problems in that community, and Paul was trying to restrict it. He never has anything good to say about the practice (and, indeed, most of 1Cor is Paul scolding that young church).

There’s nothing in Scripture that promotes or encourages this practice.
 
I’ve heard of the gift of tongues spoken in the Catholic Church many years ago, when I was a little girl, around the age of 13-14…I remember It was during lent, right before Easter. I was attending mass with my father, and they were having adoration after mass. After mass these women on opposite sides of the church started to sing in tongues.
What was really weird was that my father received the gift of interpretation…To me what the women were singing was absolute gibberish, although very beautiful…
But my Dad said, “Did you understand what they singing” and when I told him no…he said that he understood every word. They were singing praises to God, if my memory serves me right it lasted about 5 minutes…
And they were singing all praises to God, along the lines of…
“Jesus is Lord, Jesus is King, Blessed be God, Blessed be the Holy Trinity…” Although it was much more beautiful than what I’m portraying here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top