Tongues?

[water]

A good question, that I don’t have an answer for. My childhood was full of angels and demons and God and Satan and spirits of dead people. As a child, I believed that language was understood by unseen things around me that no one could see. Including me.

As an adult, I think I was a lonely child with an over active imagination.

I don’t know if you imagined or not but if that was actually what you saw as a child, I don’t think you had actually made the language up.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I don’t know if you imagined or not but if that was actually what you saw as a child, I don’t think you had actually made the language up.

I’m sticking with childhood imagination

 

[ALLFORHIM]

A good question, that I don’t have an answer for. My childhood was full of angels and demons and God and Satan and spirits of dead people. As a child, I believed that language was understood by unseen things around me that no one could see. Including me.

As an adult, I think I was a lonely child with an over active imagination.

LOL You sound like me when I was a kid!! I had an extremely overactive imagination. I did also as an adult until I accepted Christ as my Savior No I realize Im safe and the boogeyman isnt in my basement ready to pounce on me.

 

[mozart-250]

I have a simple view of this.

Since speaking in tongues is clearly in the Bible, it is up to those who say it is not for today to prove it.

They can not. In fact their case against it is very weak.

Therefore, I believe that it is for today.

But similarly it is up to those who say that everyone must or should speak in tongues to prove it from the Bible.

They can not either. In fact their case is similarly very weak.

So I believe it is for today, but I am cool with anyone no matter whether they speak in tongues or not.

Simple isn’t it.

(BTW…this is probably my major quibble with my current denomination…separate issue)

 

[water]

So I believe it is for today, but I am cool with anyone no matter whether they speak in tongues or not.

Simple isn’t it.

If everyone is like you - then it would never be an issue, but it becomes a big problem for some Catholic parishes that I know of.

 

[RebeccaJ]

LOL You sound like me when I was a kid!! I had an extremely overactive imagination. I did also as an adult until I accepted Christ as my Savior No I realize Im safe and the boogeyman isnt in my basement ready to pounce on me.

I used to sing hymns with the blankets over my head, in hope that those hymns would scare off the bogeymen!

I stopped being afraid of the bogeymen when I chose to believe that they weren’t there. They were thrown out with my belief in God.

I have my belief in God back. Those childhood fears are gone forever.

 

[Mary_ann_R]

The first letter to the Thessalonians
“Paul never opts for rigid emotions.” “Do not stifle the spirit.” (5:19)

An excellent book to read from which the above quotation comes is called - The Spirit of Jesus - A Study Of The Holy Spirit Through New Testament Citations.

Msgr Vincent M. Walsh speaks about the Spirit as “New Wine, who fills emotions and thoughts with charisms.”

“Paul sees clearly. High ethical conduct flows from the Spirit being active. Those restraining the Spirit are powerless.” pg 100 - 4.

Sorry it took so long to get to this. Forgot to cite it…busy…

It certainly gives one something to think about!

 

[strngrnrth]

I have spoken in tongues. The first time, I was in some friends’ house and they had gone out. i asked God to give me something in a tongue and I said it and looked it up in a big Greek-Hebrew-English lexicon they had. It meant something along the lines of "Love of God’ or “Mercy of God” I think in Hebrew. I was so happy.

 

[Bubble]

The purpose of “tongues” in the charasmatic movement, seems to be different than the “Gift of Tongues” given to the apostles, so personally, I’m highly suspicious when people claim to have this gift. I think they’re just babbling and convince themselves it’s actually the Holy Spirit speaking through them . . . or worse, it’s of demonic origins.

Acts, Chapter 2

1 And when the days of the Pentecost were accomplished, they were all together in one place: 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a mighty wind coming, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them parted tongues as it were of fire, and it sat upon every one of them: 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they began to speak with divers tongues, according as the Holy Ghost gave them to speak. 5 Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem, Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 And when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded in mind, because that every man heard them speak in his own tongue. 7 And they were all amazed, and wondered, saying: Behold, are not all these, that speak, Galileans? 8 And how have we heard, every man our own tongue wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea, and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, Egypt, and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome,

11 Jews also, and proselytes, Cretes, and Arabians: we have heard them speak in our own tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all astonished, and wondered, saying one to another: What meaneth this? 13 But others mocking, said: These men are full of new wine. 14 But Peter standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke to them: Ye men of Judea, and all you that dwell in Jerusalem, be this known to you, and with your ears receive my words.

When the Apostles spoke in tongues, they were not praising God in an angelic-like language that no one could understand. What they were doing was speaking in the native tongues of the people in the vicinity. Their GIFT was a way in to communicate the Good News to people of all races and nationalities. The modern “Gifts of Tongues” usually means someone speaking intelligible and serves no purpose to others because no one can understand what they are saying, which is completely the opposite of the Gift of Tongues received by the apostles.

This so-called gift can be used by the fallen angels to utter blasphemies against God. I know of an instance where a woman who had never spoken a word of Polish in her life, began to speak in tongues using Polish. It just so happened that someone from Poland was in the area to interpret. What he heard coming from her was not praise of God, but a curse.

I believe that the Gifts of Tongues can still be poured out among God’s people, but if it doesn’t mirror the Gift as given to the apostles at Pentecost, it isn’t really from the Holy Spirit.

 

[mozart-250]

The modern “Gifts of Tongues” usually means someone speaking intelligible and serves no purpose to others because no one can understand what they are saying, which is completely the opposite of the Gift of Tongues received by the apostles.

Then what is the gift of “Interpretation of Tongues” mentioned by St. Paul in 1 Cor. Chapter 12 if it is not interpreting something that is not intelligible?

And what is praying in tongues in 1 Cor. Chapter 14 which St. Paul explicitely says that by design it is not intelligible?

 

[Mary_ann_R]

I have spoken in tongues. The first time, I was in some friends’ house and they had gone out. i asked God to give me something in a tongue and I said it and looked it up in a big Greek-Hebrew-English lexicon they had. It meant something along the lines of "Love of God’ or “Mercy of God” I think in Hebrew. I was so happy.

It’s awesome, isn’t it? I read on a website yesterday that there are over 6,800 know languages and on the Catholic Charismatic Center (CCC) webite, I read that there are possibly about 50,000 over the past millenia. In Acts 10:46-47, Cornelius’s family and servants all spoke in tongues; however, there was no indication that these were known languages. Furthermore, I read somewhere else (don’t remember where) that there are languages which are only known to the Heavenly Hosts. So, with odds like that, you probably are speaking a different language!

If you asked the Holy Spirit to bless you with the gift of tongues, then you probably recieved it. The gifts are there for everyone, we’ve only need to ask for them.

God bless!

 

[water]

If you asked the Holy Spirit to bless you with the gift of tongues, then you probably recieved it. The gifts are there for everyone, we’ve only need to ask for them.

God bless!

Not everyone receive the same gift. We can certainly ask for any gift we wish, but it is God who grants what we really need.

 

[Mary_ann_R]

Not everyone receive the same gift. We can certainly ask for any gift we wish, but it is God who grants what we really need.

I agree with you Water.

I was referring mostly to the gift of tongues as a precursor to the other gifts, should have been more specific.

I like the way Bob Van Cleef puts it:

Praying in Tongues

“Praying in tongues is communicating with God. When we do not know how to pray or what to pray, praying in tongues allows the Spirit in us to do the praying for us. The Holy Spirit knows what God wants in every circumstance. By yielding control of our tongues to the Holy Spirit and allowing Him to pray through us, we are allowing Him to pray for what is really needed, not what we think is needed.”

“If you have not received the gift of tongues or your have been praying with the same prayer language, without growth or change, for many years, then pray that you will be open to the fullness of God’s will for you in this gift. This is not a matter of Salvation as some have been known to claim, or a proof'' of the presence of God's Spirit in your life as others argue. It is also not a matter for spiritual pride. The absence or presence of the diverse gifts of tongues in your life, or in the lives of those around you, is God's concern. However, if you want to be fully open to everything that God wants for you and for those you are called to help, then pursue this gift. It is such a simple thing, but it is also one of the hardest things to do. Full submission to the Holy Spirit in all His gifts is the foundation of spiritual growth. Begin with the lessor of the gifts’’ and learn submission.”

The link below is where I got the quote from.

ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/tongues_b.html#pray

 

[Bubble]

Here is a summary of a lengthy article on tongues by Robert Sungenis:

Conclusions about tongues-speaking:

Although the New Testament does not specify that the gift of tongues would no longer be manifested in the Church before the return of Christ, it severely warns against any illicit elevation of tongues over the other gifts, and warns, in no uncertain terms, that a mass proliferation of tongues in the church is a sign of sin and unbelief. The unbelief is not of a nature that denies God or Christianity, but one that creates a pseudo-faith. Although when used legitimately, tongues remains a gift of God, nevertheless, history shows that legitimate tongues-speaking is a rare occurrence. It is a gift given to very selective people in very selective instances. Conversely, in the modern movement, tongues-speaking is advertised with a very high-profile of acceptability and accessibility. Underneath this profile, however, there is an almost total disregard for the biblical directives regarding tongues speaking, which in itself suggests an illicit origin. The preponderance of research shows that modern glossolalia is a self-generated and learned experience, showing all the signs of a classic psychologically induced phenomenon which relies solely on the vast pool of information already stored in the linguistic background of its recipient. Coupling this with the fact that tongues speech is common in many pagan religions, cults and heretical groups, which produce tongues in unique states of hyper-arousal and mental dissociation, it must be concluded that most of modern tongues is far removed from the legitimate gift described in the New Testament.

There is, however, one dimension about modern tongues which is closely akin to the tongues of biblical times. As the church of Corinth found itself in the midst of a mass proliferation of tongues, Paul characterized it as a sign to unbelievers of God’s ensuing judgment. So, too, a proliferation of tongues in modern times is a sign of God’s ensuing judgment. Indeed, the presence of tongues on a mass scale would be one of the signs God is permitting to occur in order to show the world its desperate spiritual condition. It is a sign that judgment looms ahead, even as God judged apostate Israel by the babbling tongues of the Assyrian and Babylonian invaders. As God complained to Jeremiah that the prophets in those days were speaking from their own mind yet declaring their words were from the Lord , so too, many today have done the same. For this God’s judgment will indeed be severe.

“Thus saith the Lord of hosts: Hearken not to the words of the prophets that prophesy to you, and deceive you: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord” (Jeremiah 23:16).

www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/speaking-tongues-print.htm

1 Cor 14

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to believers, but to unbelievers; but prophecies not to unbelievers, but to believers.

Just an observation, some sects seem to raise speaking in tongues above all other gifts. I think this happens because it is an easy gift to forge. Compared to the gift of knowledge or wisdom . . . the gift of tongues does not have to prove itself to be genuine. For example, someone with the gift of wisdom must demonstrate his gift in word and action, over the course of time. The gift of tongues needs no such proof. One doesn’t need fortitude, integrity or proof beyond the ability to babble in order to mimic this gift. A person can pretty much say anything without anyone being able to test the spirit. Another person can interpret it as anyone being able to test the spirit. Unlike knowledge and wisdome, no one can hold up the “gift” of incoherant utterings to any sort of test. This is why it is so abused.

From what I have seen, a large group of people speaking in tongues breeds chaos. Interpretations of the same message is different from interpreter to interpreter. It seems like people equate speaking in tongues with personal holiness. Those who desire to be esteemed by themselves and/or others, use it as a “sign” of their own holiness.

I hope you read the entire article. It goes into the details of what was happening in Corinth at the time as well as how TONGUES has been viewed across the ages.

 

[Mary_ann_R]

Here is a summary of a lengthy article on tongues by Robert Sungenis:

www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/speaking-tongues-print.htm

1 Cor 14

Just an observation…

Bubble,

I thought this was pretty interesting! Check it out! On the left side of the page - Important posts, read those, especially research on speaking in tongues.

donclarks.blogspot.com/2006/12/beginning_05.html

 

[Catherine_S]

.
One wonders how is it that those of Mormon faith experience speaking in tongues and angelic singing etc.?
.
An Address to All Believers in Christ, by David Whitmer, p. 33, 1887: The Holy Ghost was with us in more power during the eight months previous to April 6, 1830, than ever at any time thereafter. Almost everyone who was baptized received the Holy Ghost in power, some prophesying, some speaking in tongues, the heavens were opened to some andall the signs which Christ promised should follow the believers were with us abundantly.
History of the Church 4:485, Footnotes, spring 1831: “Soon after he [Alpheus Gifford] went to Kirtland, Ohio, to see the Prophet Joseph Smith and the brethren, when he was ordained an Elder; he was accompanied by his brother Levi Elial Strong, Eleazar Miller, Enos Curtis and Abraham Brown, who were baptized on returning to Pennsylvania he preached and baptized many, among whom was Heber C. Kimball. The gifts of the Gospel were enjoyed by many; signs following those that believed, devils were cast out; the sick were healed;** many prophesied;** some spake with new tongues; whileothers interpreted the same.”
He [Joseph Smith] told them it was the pure Adamic language. Some said to him they expected he would condemn the gift Brother Brigham had, but he said** “No, it is of God.” **
History of the Church 1:323, January, 1833: "On the 23rd of January, we again assembled in conference; when, after much speaking, singing praying, and praising God, all in tongues, we proceeded to the washing of feet (according to the practice recorded in the 13th chapter of John’s Gospel), as commanded of the Lord.
Prescindia Huntington autobiography, (1836-1839) in Women of Mormondom (1877), pages 207-209: "When the brethren and sisters came home in the evening, they told of the power of God manifested in the temple [Kirtland temple] that day, and of the prophesying and** speaking in tongues**. It was also said, in the interpretation of tongues, That the angels were resting down upon the house...At another time a cousin of ours came to visit us at Kirtland. She wanted to go to one of the saints' fast meetings, to hear someone **sing **or** speak in tongues**, but she said she expected to have a hearty laugh. Accordingly we went with our cousin to the meeting, during which a Brother McCarter rose and **sang a song of Zion in tongues**; I arose and sang simultaneously with him the same tune and words, beginning and ending each verse **in perfect unison**, without varying a word. It was just as though we had sung it together a thousand times. After we came out of meeting, our cousin observed, Instead of laughing,** I never felt so solemn in my life.**
History of the Church 2:376, January 1836: “President Rigdon then arose and observed that instead of preaching the time would be occupied by the Presidency and Twelve, in speaking each in his turn until they had all spoken. The Lord poured out His Spirit upon us, and the brethren began to confess their faults one to the other, and **the congregation was soon overwhelmed in tears, **and some of our hearts were too big for utterance. The gift of tongues came on us also, like the rushing of a mighty wind, and **my soul was filled with the glory of God.” **


Taken from Speaking In Tongues and the** Mormon Religion:**
http://www.frontiernet.net/~bcmmin/tongue1.htm
.

​

 

[water]

I agree with you Water.

I was referring mostly to the gift of tongues as a precursor to the other gifts, should have been more specific.

I do have problem with this. How exactly the gift of tongues is a precursor to the other gifts?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I do have problem with this. How exactly the gift of tongues is a precursor to the other gifts?

Yeah Im in agreement with you. We get whatever gifts the Holy Spirit gives us. Ive never heard of tongues being a precursor to other gifts

 

[water]

Yeah Im in agreement with you. We get whatever gifts the Holy Spirit gives us. Ive never heard of tongues being a precursor to other gifts

I attended a seminar before and the priest said that in his experience he recognized that those having the gift of tongues received more gifts - in other words, the gift of tongue was the first one they received. He did not say that the gift of tongues was the requirement for other gifts. However, those who attended this seminar misunderstood it, and until this day, they still say the gift of tongue is a must before receiving other extraordinary gifts.

So, from what I see in my case, the priest said one thing, others understand a bit different. However, I am not saying that this is the case that Mary ann R mentioned.

 

[Mary_ann_R]

I do have problem with this. How exactly the gift of tongues is a precursor to the other gifts?

In other words, it allows the Holy Spirit to pray for what we need. You don’t necessarily have to have the gift of tongues to recieve the other gifts, but it frees the Spirit to use us in other ways.

I had the gift of discernment before I had the gift of tongues. I received the gift of Prophecy once I yeilded to tongues. I just had a hard time yeilding to it. So, I can relate to anyone who is having a hard time with tongues.