Tonight, I went to the EF for the first time

[valient_Lucy]

Ok, tonight, I went to the EF of the mass for the first time. I have some thoughts.

1 To be honest, I kept thinking about the Godfather during the Mass. Remember the baptism scene, where the baptism is intercut with the murder of Michael Corleone’s enemies?

2 The Mass was probably a low mass. No music, no chanting, no incense, most of it was said *sotto voce. * No homily either. (BTW, I attend an OF of the Mass that does utilize organ music, chanting (once a month we chant the Kyrie in Greek and the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei in Latin) and incense every 11:00AM Mass. Obviously, there’s a homily.)

3 I think the EF is better written than the OF of the Mass. There’s no argument there.

4 That being said (here’s the controversial part) I don’t think there’s any more benefit to attending the EF of the Mass than to reading it. Think of it this way. I prefer going to see and hear Shakespeare’s plays performed. My mom prefers to read them. She feels that she gets more out of the plays by sitting down and reading them than she does by actually seeing the plays performed and hearing the words spoken by actors. I have to admit I feel that way about the EF of the Mass. The prayers are very well written, and the priest just rushed over them, so I didn’t have any opportunity to read them. At one point, when he started praying out loud, I almost thought to myself “Shhh! Could you keep it down? I’m trying to read here!”

5 Will I go back? Probably. If nothing else, the church has the EF on Friday evenings, which means I’ll be able to receive communion on the First Friday of the month, which will be nice. But, to be perfectly honest, I’d rather sit in my room (or in the church in front of the Blessed Sacrament) and have the time to meditate on the prayers, rather than having someone else rushing them along.

6 Oh, how come no one was wearing the head covering? I thought that was mandatory, and I was one of three people who wore a veil!

 

[PhanxicoXavier]

Weekday Low Masses rarely have sermons.

Some priests rush through the prayers (especially the prayers at the foot of the altar), not all though. It’s a case by case basis. The head covering unfortunately as well. Some parishes every woman is wearing one, others, not so. I’m annoyed because my parish regularly gets many visitors, and they are usually wearing tight jeans or short skirts, etc. The regulars wear the head covering though.

You can’t make an accurate assessment of the Latin Mass by just one attendence at a weekday Low Mass though, I’m sure that you’re aware of this. Latin Mass parishes have such a wide variety of resources that there is no standard Latin Mass chapel.

 

[damooster]

4 That being said (here’s the controversial part) I don’t think there’s any more benefit to attending the EF of the Mass than to reading it. Think of it this way. I prefer going to see and hear Shakespeare’s plays performed. My mom prefers to read them. She feels that she gets more out of the plays by sitting down and reading them than she does by actually seeing the plays performed and hearing the words spoken by actors. I have to admit I feel that way about the EF of the Mass. The prayers are very well written, and the priest just rushed over them, so I didn’t have any opportunity to read them. At one point, when he started praying out loud, I almost thought to myself “Shhh! Could you keep it down? I’m trying to read here!”

You don’t mention it, but was this a morning, daily Mass? It’s possible that the celebrant rushed the Mass a little bit so that people could get to work or wherever else they were going. I don’t think this is a good excuse personally, but maybe that’s why the Mass was rushed?

5 Will I go back? Probably. If nothing else, the church has the EF on Friday evenings, which means I’ll be able to receive communion on the First Friday of the month, which will be nice. But, to be perfectly honest, I’d rather sit in my room (or in the church in front of the Blessed Sacrament) and have the time to meditate on the prayers, rather than having someone else rushing them along.

I felt this way when I first started attending the TLM because I was too focused on following along in my missal. Once you learn the prayers and are able to follow along on your own, you will really appreciate the TLM.

6 Oh, how come no one was wearing the head covering? I thought that was mandatory, and I was one of three people who wore a veil!

It’s not mandatory (well, should be according to the Bible) but is something you expect to see at a TLM. Perhaps you wearing a veil will encourage others to do so also.

 

[Contarini]

I felt this way when I first started attending the TLM because I was too focused on following along in my missal. Once you learn the prayers and are able to follow along on your own, you will really appreciate the TLM.

The TLM I’ve been to (actually I’ve attended two, one of them SSPX and one Indult) had almost no prayers said aloud (loud enough that I could hear, that is). I find this particularly frustrating because I know Latin.

My first experience of Orthodox liturgy, in Romania, was frustrating because the prayers were rattled (you wouldn’t believe how fast one can chant until you’ve heard some Romanian priests/deacons/readers do it) and I couldn’t make out what they were saying. But still, in the Byzantine tradition where everything is chanted familiarity would help a great deal.

No amount of familiarity with the TLM will get over the fact that the only way to “follow along” is to read. And that seems just wrong.

I would love to attend a TLM High Mass, but have never had the chance to do so.

Edwin

 

[Adeodatus]

No amount of familiarity with the TLM will get over the fact that the only way to “follow along” is to read. And that seems just wrong.

The priest prays on our behalf… we don’t all have to say the prayer together for it to work. To me, it’s more like the religion of the Hebrews.

 

[valient_Lucy]

You don’t mention it, but was this a morning, daily Mass? It’s possible that the celebrant rushed the Mass a little bit so that people could get to work or wherever else they were going. I don’t think this is a good excuse personally, but maybe that’s why the Mass was rushed?

Close. This was an evening daily Mass.

I felt this way when I first started attending the TLM because I was too focused on following along in my missal. Once you learn the prayers and are able to follow along on your own, you will really appreciate the TLM.

Perhaps. I’ve no opinion on the subject right now. If I grow to love the Latin Mass, that’s fine. If I don’t, that’s fine too.

It’s not mandatory (well, should be according to the Bible) but is something you expect to see at a TLM. Perhaps you wearing a veil will encourage others to do so also.

Maybe. But yes, I thought it was mandatory! I thought that if you didn’t have your head covered, the ushers would throw you out! (I’m not kidding. I really did think that.)

 

[Layman]

Go for three months straight, then get back to us.

The Mass isn’t a theatre performance put on for our enjoyment; it’s a mystic rite said on our behalf to propitiate God. The visible presentation varies according to the means and will of the participants. You can’t judge a rite by attending only one.

 

[ProVobis]

The TLM I’ve been to (actually I’ve attended two, one of them SSPX and one Indult) had almost no prayers said aloud (loud enough that I could hear, that is). I find this particularly frustrating because I know Latin.

I don’t know why some priests keep it totally quiet like that. After all, there are some parts which should be audible and some that are in “low tone.” I agree with you that it’s frustrating for someone who knows or wants to learn or just wants to hear some Latin.

 

[jam070406]

I don’t know why some priests keep it totally quiet like that. After all, there are some parts which should be audible and some that are in “low tone.” I agree with you that it’s frustrating for someone who knows or wants to learn or just wants to hear some Latin.

I’ve always been alittle confused why the final gospel of John is not more audible. (at least the TLM’s I’ve been to). It gets confusing trying to follow along and then constantly looking to see when to genuflect at “the Word became flesh” part.

 

[PhanxicoXavier]

Go for three months straight, then get back to us.

The Mass isn’t a theatre performance put on for our enjoyment; it’s a mystic rite said on our behalf to propitiate God. The visible presentation varies according to the means and will of the participants. You can’t judge a rite by attending only one.

This is true. Its taken me a while to get to the point where I can finally read along naturally without frantically turning pages to guess where the priest is.

A whole lot of “traditional Catholics” are really just in it for the exterior consolation and edification of the vestments, music, etc. I actually prefer Low Mass to High Mass, personally.

 

[MarkThompson]

I’ve always been alittle confused why the final gospel of John is not more audible. (at least the TLM’s I’ve been to). It gets confusing trying to follow along and then constantly looking to see when to genuflect at “the Word became flesh” part.

Don’t worry, last time I checked the rubrics only call for the priest to kneel. It’s a liturgical abuse for people to copy the priest’s actions when the rubric does not so specify (hello, orans posture!) so you’re in good shape if you don’t kneel.

 

[jam070406]

Don’t worry, last time I checked the rubrics only call for the priest to kneel. It’s a liturgical abuse for people to copy the priest’s actions when the rubric does not so specify (hello, orans posture!) so you’re in good shape if you don’t kneel.

I did not know that. Thanks Mark.

 

[IntegraCatholic]

Don’t worry, last time I checked the rubrics only call for the priest to kneel. It’s a liturgical abuse for people to copy the priest’s actions when the rubric does not so specify (hello, orans posture!) so you’re in good shape if you don’t kneel.

That’s true of the orans posture and some other examples (though even this isn’t, per se, forbidden), but it is not true of most actions. In other words, whenever something is said aloud, you generally mimic the priest (e.g., the signs of the cross, the bows of the head, the striking of the breast–not during his confiteor, of course, because you do it in your own–and the genuflections). This isn’t true when the priest prays silently, e.g., in the canon. The Last Gospel ought to be read aloud except at a sung mass, but even then it obviously makes sense to genuflect. You do the same in the Angelus, and it is only fitting to make such a reverence at these words.

All that being said, everyone must be very clear that there are no rubrics for the faithful in the missal. The closest that anything comes to rubrics for them is that in the low Mass it says that the “circumstantes” kneel throughout except for the Gospels. Even this does not technically apply to the laity but only the clergy; the laity can do whatever they please and never had actual rubrics in the Mass until 1969 (or perhaps '65 at the earliest, but I doubt this).

–

Regarding priests “rushing”… if you try to pray the Hail Mary in French (and you don’t know the language) with someone who is praying the rosary, you will feel like the person is rushing. He isn’t; he just has the prayer memorized and has a facility for the language. Traditionally, moral theologians generally require that a public mass (without sermon or distribution of holy communion) be finished in 30 minutes (max). This is not rushing; it is the proper speed, and they say this in order not to burden the faithful or lessen their devotion by exaggerated slowness. Of course, excessive speed is even worse, and someone who says Mass in less than 15 minutes (even in private, even a requiem) cannot be excused from a mortal sin. This is for two reasons: it is impossible to say all the prayers and make all the gestures in any even remotely reverent way and finish the entire traditional Mass in 15 minutes, and it is not befitting so august a sacrament not to spend at least a quarter of an hour in its celebration. (This, by the way, was an objection to the new rite because, if said as Masses had always been said–not belabored and spoken at/announced to the people–the Novus Ordo would probably take 10 minutes to say or 15 at the most. Bugini’s response to such an objection, after having gutted the prayers and ceremonies of the holy Mass: “Oh, we can always just add something else, then.”)

 

[ProVobis]

Don’t worry, last time I checked the rubrics only call for the priest to kneel. It’s a liturgical abuse for people to copy the priest’s actions when the rubric does not so specify (hello, orans posture!) so you’re in good shape if you don’t kneel.

Is this true at the Credo as well, I don’t know? At the High Mass, it seems people don’t usually kneel when the priest has finished the “Descendit de coelis” part but do when the choir sings it.

 

[MarkThompson]

Is this true at the Credo as well, I don’t know? At the High Mass, it seems people don’t usually kneel when the priest has finished the “Descendit de coelis” part but do when the choir sings it.

The missals I have checked have “Hic genuflectitur,” which, if I remember my third conjugation verbs, means essentially “Here he is knee-bent.” It’s definitely in the singular. Likewise the Confiteor has “percutit sibi pectus ter,” which is “he strikes himself on the breast thrice.”

I’m partly kidding here, of course; I just know it will make some people’s heads explode to compare the unrubrical practice of congregational genuflection to the unrubrical practice of congregational orans. And I’m willing to have somebody point out to me some legitimate place where the congregation is directed to do these actions, maybe I’m missing it.

It’s funny, in a way, because people’s natural desire to participate in the Confiteor, the Credo, and the Last Gospel only serves to emphasize why changes to the rite were seen as so desirable. You can repeat, as people do, that the priest and the ministers say the Confiteor on behalf of the congregation, but why shouldn’t the faithful participate? And why on Earth should the priest whisper the Last Gospel to himself, while a church full of people half read along and half glance up to try to time their genuflection correctly?

I don’t want it to turn into a puppet mass with a rock band, mind you. But I hope the people who think they’re being extra-faithful by striking their breast and genuflecting realize that all they’re doing is updating the TLM on the fly to increase congregational participation. Gasp! Horror!

 

[ProVobis]

It’s funny, in a way, because people’s natural desire to participate in the Confiteor, the Credo, and the Last Gospel only serves to emphasize why changes to the rite were seen as so desirable. You can repeat, as people do, that the priest and the ministers say the Confiteor on behalf of the congregation, but why shouldn’t the faithful participate? And why on Earth should the priest whisper the Last Gospel to himself, while a church full of people half read along and half glance up to try to time their genuflection correctly?

I think at the time of Vatican II more than wanting to hear the vernacular, they just wanted to HEAR what the priest said. As I did a lot of altar serving back then, I could hear most of what the priest said, but I always wondered why only we were so privileged. Certainly there must have been a lot of frustrated people in the church not hearing much. (And perhaps this is what turns many off at the EF today.)

But my pet peeve was at the Pater Noster, where “audemus dicere” means the people should be reciting this as well.

 

[MarkThompson]

I think at the time of Vatican II more than wanting to hear the vernacular, they just wanted to HEAR what the priest said. As I did a lot of altar serving back then, I could hear most of what the priest said, but I always wondered why only we were so privileged.

But my pet peeve was at the Pater Noster, where “audimus dicere” means the people should be reciting this as well.

LOL, I forgot about that one! Yes, I wonder how much better off we would all have been if they had just taken the TLM, turned up the volume, put the readings in the vernacular, let people say the Kyrie, Confiteor, and Pater Noster, and a handful of other fixes like moving “Ite missa est” to the end so the priest isn’t stuck telling a falsehood at Mass. Maybe in another 40 years.

 

[mick321]

Our EF masses are offered and assisted in dialog. The faithful are responsible for all responses in the 1962 Daily Missal. Our priest insists that Latin responses are spoken [in low mass] or sung [in the Sunday High Mass] distinctly and audibly by all in attendance.

As was mentioned earlier, the priest is required to recite parts of the mass silently or in a very low tone. Everything not so specified - from the Preparatory Prayers at the Foot of the Altar to the last word of the Last Gospel - is spoken or sung by our priest in a clear audible voice. Our chapel is small and seats 300. Without amplification, his voice can be heard in the last row.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Go for three months straight, then get back to us.

The Mass isn’t a theatre performance put on for our enjoyment; it’s a mystic rite said on our behalf to propitiate God. The visible presentation varies according to the means and will of the participants. You can’t judge a rite by attending only one.

I’m not expecting the EF to be a theatrical performance. Though, to be honest, I prefer my masses with music, chant, and incense.

It’s just that, the superiority of the EF lies in the superiority of the prayers. I actually feel that I would appreciate those prayers much better if I was reading them at home, or in church before the Blessed Sacrament. Or, to be honest, I would rather sit in the Chruch during Mass, read the prayers, and just ignore the priest. Let him do his thing, and I do mine, so to speak.

The one advantage I could see of the EF of the Mass is that you can pray privately far more easily than you can in the OF. I remember reading a book, Hunger of Memory by Richard Rodriguez, and he recalls growing up serving as an altar boy in the EF. He talked about how the Mass at that time was both a private event and a public event. The people genuflected and stood when they were supposed to, but they were all able to pray privately as they saw fit. His mother prayed the rosary during the Mass. One thing he regretted about the liturgical reforms was the fact that the Mass no longer affords any opportunity for private prayer. Going to the EF, I could see what he meant. Since the priest is praying on my behalf, he could pray the Mass and I could pray in my own way. Kind of like going to Eucharistic Adoration.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I just want to reiterate what I said in my previous posts. I’ll probably still go back, if nothing else, in order to receive communion on the First Fridays. (It’s actually the most convenient parish and time for me to do it.)