Tons of Guilt...what will happen to me?

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KEVIN_WILCOX said:
Again you interpret my posting as ‘rude’.

“When speaking of the sacrament our role is always to defend the bond” - In other words, you’re saying “OP chose to get married, her hands are tied. Bond becomes before person,” Sounds you out as legalist. Almost Pharisaic?

“There is no room in Church dialogue around that” - In other words, you’re saying “The law comes before the person.”

From what OP posts, she does wish to bring the marriage up for examination. This is her whole thrust of argument. This is what she is doing, perhaps feels guilty as a consequence.
As a Christian Counsellor I encourage her to examine her life, not by reinforcing legal position.
If she is feeling guilty, charity does not need us to point out legal standing. She needs to be cheered, to slow down, and look dispassionately at her position. Guilt already troubles her. Why should she be further burdened?
Prayerful investigation will take her journey into the hands of God (Psalm 138)
Fear can only be overcome by Love. The Law is doing nothing but tie her into guilt.
She fears ‘doing the wrong thing.’
God is a God of Love, He is a Shepherd who carries us. Both she and her husband pray together, God will not abandon them.
OP is in a dark night, I refuse to be one of Job’s comforters who reminds her of the Law.

'Speak not any thing rashly, and let not thy heart be hasty to utter a word before God. For God is in the heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few ’ (Ecc 5:1)
More than anything OP needs to be listened to.
I do not have any answers for her, it would be ethically (and perhaps theologically) unwise.
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What you want to do, from a counseling perspective is very good. I’m not saying it is not good. However, the sacrament does come before the person in the sense, that person is bound by the sacrament. Therefore, when we speak as a Church, we’re not being legalistic when we say that the bond must be protected. This is not pharisaical. This is a fact. The Church teaches this and we cannot change this. Even the Church with her divine authority cannot change the fact that the marital bond must be protected.

As to bringing up a marriage for examination, the only proper place to do that is a tribunal. To do that you must believe that there is at least a remote possibility that your marriage is invalid. The OP has not suggested that she believes her marriage may be invalid. She has express regret, becaues she may have had a religious vocation. But if you follow the Church’s teaching on marriage, this is not likely. The proof would be in the validity of the sacrament. The only way to prove that the person entered into a marriage where they don’t belong is to bring the marriage for examination before an eclesial tribunal who will judge the bond. If the bond is found to be valid, then the person is where he or she belongs. This is where a counselor can be most helpful, to help the person accomodate and grow into their situation.

When I say that there is no dialogue around the marriage bond, I’m not talking law. Marriage is not a law. It is a sacrament, a divine sign from Christ himself. A sign cannot be wished away. It either is or is not. But only the Church can decide that. The Church cannot undo the sign. She has the authority and the wisdom to say “This is a sign from Christ or this is not a sign”. She cannot say, “This is a sign, but we can make it go away.” We can’t do that. We don’t have that authority. This is not a matter of law. Sometimes I wish it were. It would make it easier to work through difficult marriages. But it’s not a legal question, it is a sacramental question. It is either a sacrament or is not. One is bound by a sacrament. If it’s not a sacrament, because careful examination proves that it was never a sacrament, then there is not bond. In a certain sense our hands are tied once we enter marriage.

It’s a difficult thing to deal with, because even when you present a marriage to a tribunal for examiantion, you have to go through some very painful processes. There is not way to avoid the pain. The question to the person is, “Do you believe that you are married?” If the answer is no, then it has to be examined by a tribunal. If the answer is yes, then there is nothing else that can be asked. That’s when a good counselor can help the person work through whatever issues interfere with their happiness, but not work out of the marriage, because that’s impossible.

There is one other way here. The person can believe that the marriage is valid and the Church can rule that it is not. That rarely happens, but it’s possible.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Dear Brother,
I saw your posting and before jumping in thought “Oh God, here we go again.”
I appreciate the path you have chosen but I think in OP’s situation, although helpful, it is not timely.
OP does not need the status of the Church laid out before her. It is probably not beneficial, at the moment. She grieves, thinks of a life that perhaps could have been. Perhaps she already knows what you are saying. If she wants a purely intellectual experience she can read. There are libraries, and the internet. This is not where she is at.
  • She needs to talk about her situation. She’s not seeking advice. She’s reaching out to be heard. It’s painful for her, she’s uncomfortable putting it into words;
  • She needs to be accepted. She’s feeling guilty and
  • She needs to be embraced as “normal.”
She is in pain, she needs to be heard. If we confine her to Church teaching she may feel rejected, and resentment may lead to depression.
In time she will be open enough to listen, at the moment she finds the going tough, and perhaps a little unfair. Perhaps she’s grieving lost opportunity.
People live in their hearts, and there’s an old saying “The presenting problem is rarely the problem.”
If we continue responding by giving her the teaching of the Church on the Sacrament of Marriage she may be driven deeper into a negative state. A sense of rejection and depression may set in, withdrawal and communication breakdown.

Trying to make her suffering “better” by suggested answers (“look to your marriage sacrament”) is dismissive and disrespectful. It minimizes her experience.
And it swings the emphasis away from where it should be, OP. In imitation of Christ we have to meet the person where they are at (and it’s often messy).
As a counsellor I have to be willing to enter into OP’s suffering. Perhaps as a Christian counsellor, deeper.

The first and the last thing we need do is EMPATHETICALLY LISTEN:
Mary at the foot of the Cross. How much she wanted to take the pain and suffering from her Son!
 
KEVIN_WILCOX said:
Dear Brother,
I saw your posting and before jumping in thought “Oh God, here we go again.”
I appreciate the path you have chosen but I think in OP’s situation, although helpful, it is not timely.
OP does not need the status of the Church laid out before her. It is probably not beneficial, at the moment. She grieves, thinks of a life that perhaps could have been. Perhaps she already knows what you are saying. If she wants a purely intellectual experience she can read. There are libraries, and the internet. This is not where she is at.
  • She needs to talk about her situation. She’s not seeking advice. She’s reaching out to be heard. It’s painful for her, she’s uncomfortable putting it into words;
  • She needs to be accepted. She’s feeling guilty and
  • She needs to be embraced as “normal.”
She is in pain, she needs to be heard. If we confine her to Church teaching she may feel rejected, and resentment may lead to depression.
In time she will be open enough to listen, at the moment she finds the going tough, and perhaps a little unfair. Perhaps she’s grieving lost opportunity.
People live in their hearts, and there’s an old saying “The presenting problem is rarely the problem.”
If we continue responding by giving her the teaching of the Church on the Sacrament of Marriage she may be driven deeper into a negative state. A sense of rejection and depression may set in, withdrawal and communication breakdown.

Trying to make her suffering “better” by suggested answers (“look to your marriage sacrament”) is dismissive and disrespectful. It minimizes her experience.
And it swings the emphasis away from where it should be, OP. In imitation of Christ we have to meet the person where they are at (and it’s often messy).
As a counsellor I have to be willing to enter into OP’s suffering. Perhaps as a Christian counsellor, deeper.

The first and the last thing we need do is EMPATHETICALLY LISTEN:
Mary at the foot of the Cross. How much she wanted to take the pain and suffering from her Son!
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I agree with what you’re saying. For this reason, I would strongly recommend a good pastoral counselor who understands the heart and the sacraments. I don’t think there is much that can be said to help someone at that level on an internet thread, because one would have to ask many personal questions. That would be inappropriate here.

If this were a case of spiritual direction, I can think of 10 questions to ask right away, but that would not be appropriate here. In this context, I can only respond by explaining what the sacrament is about and hope that the person will feel that if they are in a good marriage, then that’s where they belong and they have not bombed out, if you know what I mean.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I agree with what you’re saying. For this reason, I would strongly recommend a good pastoral counselor who understands the heart and the sacraments. I don’t think there is much that can be said to help someone at that level on an internet thread, because one would have to ask many personal questions. That would be inappropriate here.

If this were a case of spiritual direction, I can think of 10 questions to ask right away, but that would not be appropriate here. In this context, I can only respond by explaining what the sacrament is about and hope that the person will feel that if they are in a good marriage, then that’s where they belong and they have not bombed out, if you know what I mean.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Broadcasting personal info. over any of the media is not something I would encourage or recommend without carefulness.
(I work in the media, and tell my guests all the time!🙂 “Diplomacy & discretion.”)
 
Hi everyone, OP here.

Thanks so much for all of your responses. I’ve had time over the last couple of weeks to think about things, and listen for God’s voice (and He’s provided it!) to me on the issue. All of your responses were really well-thought out and very compassionate, and I thank you!

I do want to just say that I’ve never questioned the validity of my marriage - it was not my intent to do so when I originally posted, although I can see how it came across that way. I love being married; I love my husband; and I truly thank God for leading me to a place that is so wonderful. I do feel that I am in a good marriage, and I am assured that God has poured out His graces on our Sacrament.

The issue for me was - I think - based out of my anxiety over what “might have been”; and to be honest, if I had chosen life as a religious sister, I can probably guarantee that I’d be having the exact same doubts and frets about “what might have been” had I gotten married - that is the nature of the beast here. 😊 I do suffer from an anxiety disorder and have had trouble with scrupulosity in the past, so I think it’s pretty safe to think all of this is connected in that way. I do like the analogy of the grieving process; and this very well might be connected to that as well.

Thanks again for everyone’s help and support! 🙂
 
Agape…this may be a bit off-subject, but you mentioned that you have an anxiety disorder. Do you have any sinus or upper respiratory disorders? If you do, then getting these disorders addressed (either by surgery or antibiotics, etc.) may have a profound healing effect on your anxiety disorder.

God bless!
John
 
The very fact that you are happy as a married woman should be confirmation that you are blessed!
 
Agapeflower,
Your situation reminds me of a couple of things:
It’s not uncommon for nuns who going through menopause to grieve never having had children, and realize it is now certain reality. These are admirable, inspirational nuns, in well-founded vocations.
Every month until menopause they were reminded of what could be. Not regretful of their choice, but nature reminded them of possibilities.

There was an old monk I met once, the community affectionately referred to him as “Creeping Jesus”, the conscience of the community. Over a cup of tea he talked about his regret in not having grandchildren. He did not regret his choice, but nature invited him to consider possibilities.
 
I’m so sorry that you feel that way!😦
When you were young you thought that you wanted to be a nun, but then God chose the path of marriage for you. Being married doesn’t make you any less closer to God, not in the least. Which is at least what I believe. One of my favorite sayings is “Dance with God, He’ll let the right partner cut in”. God found you the right partner, your husband. You are still very close to the Church, and it sounds like that you’ve become even closer because of being married. I’m happy for you, and you should NOT feel guilty.
 
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