Too Catholic?

  • Thread starter Thread starter k8e308
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

k8e308

Guest
I’m trying to live my faith very consistently. This includes declining participation in gossip and lies or not laughing at jokes that I feel are at someone’s expense, even when instigated by someone I love (my husband or sister, for example). I generally decline either by simply not commenting, or if asked a question directly, I say something like “I’m sorry, but I feel like this is gossip or dangerously close to gossip, so I’d rather not talk about it.” and then I try to introduce a new subject, if possible.

I have gotten everything from an eye roll to the accusation that I’m “too Catholic” or that I don’t “have to be Catholic all the time.” Sometimes the person simply says that I need to get off my high horse and realize that I sin too.

This boggles me, of course, because there’s no such thing as “too Catholic” and I am Catholic all the time. And, I know that I sin, I just choose not to participate when I recognize the sin and have the strength to not participate.

So, my question is: can I respond in a different way so that they don’t take the attitude that I’m being “holier than thou”, or do I just have to brazen it out in order to be faithful? Please keep in mind that I’m talking about all kinds of sin here: lies, gossip, slander, bigotry (as in jokes/stories/attitudes/statements that make fun of race, creed, hair color, nationality, etc), sexual sins, criticism of others, taking the Lord’s name in vain, etc. Basically every kind of sin that’s prevelant in today’s society that the world doesn’t consider “really serious”. How do you decline participation in sin without appearing to condemn the one who chooses to participate? Is that even possible?
 
I can relate to your dilemma, though I may not be as diligent/conscientious in all situations as you seem to be.

When I do find myself in a similar situation and have the presence of mind (maybe sufficient grace is a better term) to realize in the moment that I’m faced with a choice to sin or not to sin, and have to comment, I try to say something positive about the person/situation in question, as opposed to agreeing with what has been said and thereby encouraging/endorsing the other person’s behavior.

That’s a really long sentence. Hope it makes sense to someone other than me…

Peace
 
I think this is an excellent topic to discuss.

While I agree there is no such thing as being “too Catholic,” I agree with your concern about coming across as condescending or even as condemnation.

Once I worked for a boss who was very Christian (although not Catholic) and he didn’t mind talking about his faith and beliefs with anyone who wanted to, and he was obviously very strong both in his convictions and in his behavior. That said, my coworkers (engineers) had senses of humor that he could not share in. I would sometimes cringe at the things they said in his presence, but he never put them down or even chastised them for it; he would just let it go by but he didn’t support it with a particular response. Sometimes he’d give a weak smile, wait a few seconds, and then change the subject. I had a lot of respect for him, and at the time I know I sometimes came across as self-righteous and I think I learned something about people skills from him.

We all have our own style, but I’m thinking if they press you for a response maybe say something a bit more generic like, “no comment” or something like that. Since they know your feelings on the matter by now, they should respect that and not expect you to participate. That way you’re excluding yourself from their discussion, while not calling out their specific sins.

As you have observed, people like that aren’t going to hear or appreciate the correction you are giving them even if you do so lovingly, especially if there are more than one of them and it could make things “awkward.” If it too much for you to ignore, maybe you could talk to them one at a time privately when they have some time and open a conversation with something like, “if you have time, there are a few things I’m concerned about.” Essentially, it’s not about telling them about their faults, but asking for understanding from them as to why you don’t participate. They may not improve their own language or jokes but at least they should respect you enough to not insist that you join them in their behavior.

From the standpoint of evangelizing them, I think that if they see that despite your own strong convictions that you respect them as people and let them be themselves, it just might get across to them in a way like that boss of mine got through to me. He didn’t share in the coworker’s jokes, but they loved him and respected him and knew if they asked him a question they would get an honest answer, whether it was what they wanted to hear or not.

Some people might object to my position, saying that it is an act of mercy to instruct the ignorant and admonish the sinner, but based on several scriptures (I will supply them if you’d like) it is prudent to use our worldly wisdom to know what is effective and what is not.

I hope this helps; I think this is an excellent topic for discussion and I’d like to hear what others have to say about it.

Alan
 
k8e308 said:
I’m trying to live my faith very consistently. This includes declining participation in gossip and lies or not laughing at jokes that I feel are at someone’s expense, even when instigated by someone I love (my husband or sister, for example). I generally decline either by simply not commenting, or if asked a question directly, I say something like “I’m sorry, but I feel like this is gossip or dangerously close to gossip, so I’d rather not talk about it.” and then I try to introduce a new subject, if possible.

I have gotten everything from an eye roll to the accusation that I’m “too Catholic” or that I don’t “have to be Catholic all the time.” Sometimes the person simply says that I need to get off my high horse and realize that I sin too.

This boggles me, of course, because there’s no such thing as “too Catholic” and I am Catholic all the time. And, I know that I sin, I just choose not to participate when I recognize the sin and have the strength to not participate.

So, my question is: can I respond in a different way so that they don’t take the attitude that I’m being “holier than thou”, or do I just have to brazen it out in order to be faithful? Please keep in mind that I’m talking about all kinds of sin here: lies, gossip, slander, bigotry (as in jokes/stories/attitudes/statements that make fun of race, creed, hair color, nationality, etc), sexual sins, criticism of others, taking the Lord’s name in vain, etc. Basically every kind of sin that’s prevelant in today’s society that the world doesn’t consider “really serious”. How do you decline participation in sin without appearing to condemn the one who chooses to participate? Is that even possible?
Click to expand...
The situation you describe is tough. Expect it to escalate.

The responses you are hearing:
I have gotten everything from an eye roll
Click to expand...
the accusation that (you’re) “too Catholic”
Click to expand...
(You) don’t “have to be Catholic all the time.”
Click to expand...
(you) need to get off (your) high horse and realize that (you) sin too.
Click to expand...
are very reminiscent of the serpent’s responses to Eve’s initial refusal to take the apple…
 
AlanFromWichita said:
I think this is an excellent topic to discuss.

While I agree there is no such thing as being “too Catholic,” I agree with your concern about coming across as condescending or even as condemnation.

Once I worked for a boss who was very Christian (although not Catholic) and he didn’t mind talking about his faith and beliefs with anyone who wanted to, and he was obviously very strong both in his convictions and in his behavior. That said, my coworkers (engineers) had senses of humor that he could not share in. I would sometimes cringe at the things they said in his presence, but he never put them down or even chastised them for it; he would just let it go by but he didn’t support it with a particular response. Sometimes he’d give a weak smile, wait a few seconds, and then change the subject. I had a lot of respect for him, and at the time I know I sometimes came across as self-righteous and I think I learned something about people skills from him.

We all have our own style, but I’m thinking if they press you for a response maybe say something a bit more generic like, “no comment” or something like that. Since they know your feelings on the matter by now, they should respect that and not expect you to participate. That way you’re excluding yourself from their discussion, while not calling out their specific sins.

As you have observed, people like that aren’t going to hear or appreciate the correction you are giving them even if you do so lovingly, especially if there are more than one of them and it could make things “awkward.” If it too much for you to ignore, maybe you could talk to them one at a time privately when they have some time and open a conversation with something like, “if you have time, there are a few things I’m concerned about.” Essentially, it’s not about telling them about their faults, but asking for understanding from them as to why you don’t participate. They may not improve their own language or jokes but at least they should respect you enough to not insist that you join them in their behavior.

From the standpoint of evangelizing them, I think that if they see that despite your own strong convictions that you respect them as people and let them be themselves, it just might get across to them in a way like that boss of mine got through to me. He didn’t share in the coworker’s jokes, but they loved him and respected him and knew if they asked him a question they would get an honest answer, whether it was what they wanted to hear or not.

Some people might object to my position, saying that it is an act of mercy to instruct the ignorant and admonish the sinner, but based on several scriptures (I will supply them if you’d like) it is prudent to use our worldly wisdom to know what is effective and what is not.

I hope this helps; I think this is an excellent topic for discussion and I’d like to hear what others have to say about it.

Alan
Click to expand...
I can hardly improve on such a thoughtful response. I agree with you that it is sometimes better not to preach but rather to lead by example; and if one does say something, it is preferable to say it in a way that is not accusatory. I would only add that this situation applies to other religions as well and even to those people who don’t consider themselves particularly devout.

To the OP: this is a great question and one I’m sure many people can relate to.
 
k8e308 said:
I’m trying to live my faith very consistently. This includes declining participation in gossip and lies or not laughing at jokes that I feel are at someone’s expense, even when instigated by someone I love (my husband or sister, for example). I generally decline either by simply not commenting, or if asked a question directly, I say something like “I’m sorry, but I feel like this is gossip or dangerously close to gossip, so I’d rather not talk about it.” and then I try to introduce a new subject, if possible.

I have gotten everything from an eye roll to the accusation that I’m “too Catholic” or that I don’t “have to be Catholic all the time.” Sometimes the person simply says that I need to get off my high horse and realize that I sin too.

This boggles me, of course, because there’s no such thing as “too Catholic” and I am Catholic all the time. And, I know that I sin, I just choose not to participate when I recognize the sin and have the strength to not participate.

So, my question is: can I respond in a different way so that they don’t take the attitude that I’m being “holier than thou”, or do I just have to brazen it out in order to be faithful? Please keep in mind that I’m talking about all kinds of sin here: lies, gossip, slander, bigotry (as in jokes/stories/attitudes/statements that make fun of race, creed, hair color, nationality, etc), sexual sins, criticism of others, taking the Lord’s name in vain, etc. Basically every kind of sin that’s prevelant in today’s society that the world doesn’t consider “really serious”. How do you decline participation in sin without appearing to condemn the one who chooses to participate? Is that even possible?
Click to expand...
Its up to you to decide whether your’e being too Catholic or not.People are always trying to influence our opinions.How don’t know how to tell you to respond.You’ll think of something.
 
k8e308 said:
I’m trying to live my faith very consistently. This includes declining participation in gossip and lies or not laughing at jokes that I feel are at someone’s expense, even when instigated by someone I love (my husband or sister, for example). I generally decline either by simply not commenting, or if asked a question directly, I say something like “I’m sorry, but I feel like this is gossip or dangerously close to gossip, so I’d rather not talk about it.” and then I try to introduce a new subject, if possible.

I have gotten everything from an eye roll to the accusation that I’m “too Catholic” or that I don’t “have to be Catholic all the time.” Sometimes the person simply says that I need to get off my high horse and realize that I sin too.

This boggles me, of course, because there’s no such thing as “too Catholic” and I am Catholic all the time. And, I know that I sin, I just choose not to participate when I recognize the sin and have the strength to not participate.

So, my question is: can I respond in a different way so that they don’t take the attitude that I’m being “holier than thou”, or do I just have to brazen it out in order to be faithful? Please keep in mind that I’m talking about all kinds of sin here: lies, gossip, slander, bigotry (as in jokes/stories/attitudes/statements that make fun of race, creed, hair color, nationality, etc), sexual sins, criticism of others, taking the Lord’s name in vain, etc. Basically every kind of sin that’s prevelant in today’s society that the world doesn’t consider “really serious”. How do you decline participation in sin without appearing to condemn the one who chooses to participate? Is that even possible?
Click to expand...
I wish I had your fortitude when it comes to gossip.

When I am caught in a situation where if I open my mouth I know I’m gonna say something sinful, I try just to keep it closed. I think that you should just do what your doing now. Maybe people would be more sympathetic if you said “I’m not comfortable with this.”

And as to “You don’t have to be Catholic all the time”, you know just how wrong this is.
 
k8e308 said:
I’m trying to live my faith very consistently. This includes declining participation in gossip and lies or not laughing at jokes that I feel are at someone’s expense, even when instigated by someone I love (my husband or sister, for example). I generally decline either by simply not commenting, or if asked a question directly, I say something like “I’m sorry, but I feel like this is gossip or dangerously close to gossip, so I’d rather not talk about it.” and then I try to introduce a new subject, if possible.
Click to expand...
That’s not “too Catholic”, that’s just being considerate. 🤷 I think that’s awesome that you care about other people’s feelings.

Don’t be too hard on yourself. God bless :byzsoc:

David
 
I have been back to my faith for about 7 years now and people who have known me for a long time are still sometimes surprised by the changes they see in me. This summer I went to visit family in another state and stayed with one of my sisters.She and her boyfriend drove me to a particular store to get some food for dinner that night (I was treating to thank them for their hospitality) and on the way there her boyfriend asked if I had ever heard of Five Brothers hamburgers. I hadn’t and said so, and he proceeded to tell me how wonderful they were, etc. Then he said he was going to take us there for lunch and let me find out for myself. Well, this was all happening on a Friday and a few months ago I decided I would abstain from meat on every Friday instead of only during Lent. I wasn’t sure how to tell them this - they are not actively participating in any faith - without making us all uncomfortable, but finally just decided to say that I would love to go with them but that I couldn’t eat because I don’t eat meat on Fridays. They just sort of looked at each other, didn’t say anything and we drove on in a somewhat uncomfortable silence for about 5 minutes. Then we all just sort of went back to how it was before the topic came up and everyone relaxed again.
That Sunday morning as I was getting ready for Mass, my sister asked me to skip it and stay and visit with her (I was leaving the next day) instead. I explained that I couldn’t, and why. She persisted for a few minutes more but I stood firm, nicely but firm and she finally let it go. That evening after dinner she asked me a question that sort of made me chuckle a little but I was glad she asked. She said, “So when did you get all this religion?” It gave me a chance to tell a little of my story and “witness” a little. To my thinking, maybe it would stick with her and she would think about “getting some religion” herself.
I love her and pray for her to find her way back to the Church, and if I can be an instrument for God to make that happen I would be so happy.
Sorry this was so long but I felt the details were important. 😊
 
I agree with Pax1972:
"say something positive about the person/situation in question, as opposed to agreeing with what has been said and thereby encouraging/endorsing the other person’s behavior." Or say nothing at all. If there is a way to discretely excuse yourself from the group. It is a very tough situation and sometimes you just have to just stand there quietly.
 
meltzerboy said:
I can hardly improve on such a thoughtful response. I agree with you that it is sometimes better not to preach but rather to lead by example; and if one does say something, it is preferable to say it in a way that is not accusatory. I would only add that this situation applies to other religions as well and even to those people who don’t consider themselves particularly devout.

I totally agree that Alan’s response was a really good one. It is hard to not share one’s faith by explaining why you have made a particular choice in participating or not in sinful conversation. Sometimes your testimony of “passing” “not participating” or “redirecting” will help others without a long explanation. If and when you see an opportunity share that you are trying to avoid things that make you sin.

But I understand. I have a hard time with this too!

God bless you and keep you strong in your faith!
Click to expand...
 
The Lord will give you a way out of every situation. Trust the holy spirit and he will put the correct words into your mouth.
 
When I gave money back to a cashier when she gave ne too much, and she expressed gratitude, I smiled and said, “I’m not going to hell for that amount.” Maybe a smile and a flip remark like that will let them know you’re serious, but not judgmental of them.
 
Waiting said:
When I gave money back to a cashier when she gave ne too much, and she expressed gratitude, I smiled and said, “I’m not going to hell for that amount.” Maybe a smile and a flip remark like that will let them know you’re serious, but not judgmental of them.
Click to expand...
I really like that!

(Sometimes I wish we had “like” buttons like FaceBook.) 😛

Alan
 
meltzerboy said:
I can hardly improve on such a thoughtful response. I agree with you that it is sometimes better not to preach but rather to lead by example; and if one does say something, it is preferable to say it in a way that is not accusatory. I would only add that this situation applies to other religions as well and even to those people who don’t consider themselves particularly devout.

To the OP: this is a great question and one I’m sure many people can relate to.
Click to expand...
I agree and great observation. And yeah, I can relate. It does help if preaching is avoided but with the right timing, some preaching can be smuggled in gently and it might even stick.

But some people will take a longer time to sway or believe you’re sincere and not on a hype either.

And with some, I guess it may be very difficult to find a common ground, particularly if they believe in letting go of ethical or moral constraints from time to time on purpose (which is different from “simply” falling in temptation).

I guess it helps to show them a human side (normal emotions, normal hobbies and interests, approachability) and somehow also win their respect (hard-working, demanding from oneself first, reaching out to people, respecting them).

Please note some people say such things (“too Catholic” etc.) not in order to put you down but because they’re worried that you’re supposedly putting too hard constraints on yourself and they’d wish for you to have a bit of a life, as they might be seeing it. So it might actually be a notion of compassion of sorts.
 
Waiting said:
When I gave money back to a cashier when she gave ne too much, and she expressed gratitude, I smiled and said, “I’m not going to hell for that amount.” Maybe a smile and a flip remark like that will let them know you’re serious, but not judgmental of them.
Click to expand...
Clever. 👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top