Too Much Confession?

[Leopard]

Well, I admit I am Scrupulous and I go to Confession frequently (usually a minimum of once a week…more often if I can get the Priests that won’t give me a lecture on going to Confession too much). As a youth, I was a frequent hand-washer and stuff and as a Protestant, I prayed frequently for forgiveness (basically doing an examination of conscience or whatever you want to call it).

Remember, Scrupulosity (OCD) is not a condition that one can ‘bring on’ like drunkenness (a person chooses to guzzle booze, one does not choose a Scrupulous condition)…

Correct, which is why I qualified my statement by saying that an individual’s personal culpability for sinfulness in any action depends on his ability to freely choose that action.

…nor is it a sinful condition (remember, getting drunk is itself sinful, being Scrupulous) and I really is not an occasion of sin…

Scrupulosity itself is not sinful. Knowingly and freely refusing to take reasonable care of one’s health, including mental health issues, may be sinful. Some scrupulous persons may through no fault of their own be unable to evaluate or control their moral behaviors. These persons would not be morally culpable for their moral decisions to the extent that they are unable to freely act regarding these.

Other persons may be less severely affected by scrupulosity, may be aware of their condition, may be aware of what they should do to alleviate their condition, may be capable of undertaking these therapeutic actions, but still freely choose not to do this but instead to nurture their scrupulous condition. This may be comparable to a person who, before he tales a first drink, knows he has a drinking problem, knows that if he takes that first drink he may place himself in a condition where he can not control his moral decisions and/or his actions, is as yet capable of sufficient self control not to take that first drink, but still freely chooses to do so. Such persons who freely choose to place themselves in a new condition or to cultivate an existing condition in which they can not make or control moral decisions or actions, and not follow good medical or pastoral advice regarding lessening this condition, may be morally culpable for the initial decision to place themselves into or aggravate the condition, to the extent that they are freely able to make that initial decision at the time that decision is made.

Obviously for some persons, this culpability is zero. Others may bear some personal responsibility. Self-diagnosis is difficult in any matter where one’s own judgment is impaired, so the scrupulous person is well advised to follow the advice of a good confessor and physician, psychologist and/or other qualified therapist familiar with his case.

…After all, while going to Confession too much (unless it gets to wear it is taking up so much time…such as going hourly or something) may mess up someone’s psyche further (i.e. make them more Scrupulous possibly in their actions), it really does not lead to sin…

Not as such, although any action inadvisably undertaken freely and knowingly that results in damage to one’s own health may be sin against one’s duty to care for one’s health.

…Now, what causes me trouble is that besides the Scrupulosity, I deal with a masturbation issue. Obviously, I know what the Church teaches on the issue (it, along with the accompanying lust, is a mortal sin, but that there can be things that lesson the consent such as habit [addiction] and other issues)…

This is correct. Such factors can reduce or eliminate personal culpability.

(continued)

 

[Leopard]

(continued)

…One of the Priests has flat out told me that, since it is a repetitive sin, it is not mortal since it is an addiction/habit, but then this causes me to sometime do the sin more or be less concerned about it, which then makes me worry that maybe the Priest is wrong and then I feel the need to go to Confession a lot…

Depending on how familiar he is with your case he may be right. I would suggest that you discuss with him your concerns that you may be becoming too self-permissive.

I would also suggest that you look into methods that others have used to successfully combat addictive behaviors, such as those used by members of Alcoholics Anonymous. Try taking it one day at a time. One minute at a time when necessary. Finally, I do not know how old you are, but I get the impression that you are relatively young. In my experience such temptations become less of an issue as the years go on. Give yourself time to continue to mature.

…Then, especially after reading that sermon by St. Leonard on how few people are Saved and how many Confessions are invalid (but even before that I had these concerns), I worry that my Confessions are somehow because I maybe forgot something and/or not give enough detail and then I worry about how much detail I should have gone into and, since I admit I would like to avoid embarrassment/shame if licitly possible (i.e. I don’t want to go into anymore detail than I actually need to go into), I then worry that I committed sacrilege or something…

If you are not intentionally lying to your confessor, and if you are sincerely sorry for your sins as God sees them, and if you really want to break any sinful habits you have even if you are not yet strong enough to do so on your own, then your confessions are perfectly valid and not sacrilegious in any way. You only need to confess mortal sins by kind and number to the best of your memory. If your confessor needs additional details he will ask you for them.

…Admittedly, a couple of the Priests at my parish seem kind of lax on the need for Confession and sin issues (or maybe I just am too Scrupulous). This further makes it confusing. After all, is the Priest who tells me that the masturbation/lust issues (which play out by doing those online sexual role-playing games) correct when he tells me it is not mortal?..

Not having been present when you spoke with your confessor, and not being personally familiar with your case, I can not definitively answer this. It is possible that your specific sins may not be mortal if either of the necessary conditions of sufficient knowledge and free consent are absent. The objective condition of serious matter seems to be present. I would advise you to stop playing games that you recognize as being a contributing factor in your concerns.

As with physicians or any other professional care providers, if you think your confessor is not giving you good advice, see another. But ultimately it will be best for you to find a confessor you trust, stick with him, and follow his advice.

…Do I then make it mortal sin by kind of abusing the Priest’s words and maybe sinning more cause I feel I do not have to go to Confession immediately (remember my timeframe: for me ‘immediately’ means, waiting until my next scheduled [in my mind as it were, not officially scheduled] Confession means like a next week and going a long time without Confession is like a couple weeks [which would probably be almost unbearable for me]).

Maybe, maybe not. Have you discussed this concern with him?

 

[Leopard]

Priests discourage it because they think they have better things to do with their time. The laity who discourage it (though some do have good intentions) are the ones that know they need to go and don’t like being reminded of it.

Are any saints that warned against weekly Confession?

In the case of penitents whose personal sense of moral self-knowledge is unimpaired, no.

In the case of scrupulous persons or other persons who are incapable of making an accurate examination of conscience, I believe both St. Pio and St. John Bosco advised such persons to follow their confessors’ advice as to when they should approach Sacramental Confession. I’ll try to find exact quotes.

 

[Godfollower]

For a person who suffers from scrupulosity, I would suggest:

(A) Only have one confessor.
(B) Make sure that confessor knows about the scrupulosity problem.
(C) Obey that confessor’s instructions concerning frequency of confession, subjects of confession, and prayer.

 

[brigid12]

I used to go almost daily, because we had a daily mass with Confession before it – So I would go to Confession before the mass. Also this is good for dealing with grave sins – though one must remember as it is easy to not to the necessity of a firm resolution to not only not sin, but to avoid the near occasion of sin in combating them too, the sacramental graces are great aids.

However, a genuinely scrupulous person is a special case wherein frequency of Confession is not necessarily desirable, because it can exacerbate the person’s problems. Scrupulous people often have minds wandering all over the place even more so than an average person, they do not have self control, and are always inventing sins for themselves. Part of dealing with a scrupulous person is working towards putting an end to this mental behavior, wherein they with their out of control minds cannot practice prudent reserve even in accounting properly for their sins – so that it can even become an occasion of sin for them to think on them for taking them to account, or at least they are thinking it was rather than properly watching over their consciousness.

Scrupulousity can cause a person to malform their conscience, even to denying His Mercy - the unforgivable sin

Generally scrupulous penitents can even be over anxious about one part of their spiritual life, fearful about it, but completely ignore what they should be working on as they are comfortable with it. Their fearful overactive minds focus too precisely to the detriment of an overall, holistic view of their soul more necessary to work on the whole self for progress.

Don’t forget, while you are forming your conscience, His Mercy, too!

A genuinely scrupulous person in the hands of a priest who is too permissive about certain sins is in a difficult situation, because fear and anxiety are his chief enemies along with sin – This person must take heart and recognize his weaknesses, and look to those broadly accepted standards the Church has always taught as the answer when what the priest has said is clearly at variance with them.

Priests with flaws in some areas can still help in others.

Disobedience to your confessor is as important a sin as any other, and one that new converts often don’t understand, as the confessor is part of the Church that is one with Christ - so in essence, disobedience/rejection of him is rejection of Christ. Remember, your confessor is in persona christi including one who seems to you to be too lenient!

When the situation is doubtful the person must not give into anxiety, but simply proceed prudently trusting that acting on the best knowledge he has at the time with prudence is sufficient for him in this situation. You must become your own doctor to a degree, and work on avoiding sin not out of overwhelming anxiety, but a more stable, knowledgeable and peaceful avoidance based on sorrow at the thought of displeasing Love and happiness at the thought of spiritual progress towards God.

Originally posted by Shin
However it sounds like you have a problem avoiding the near occasion of sin, which you resolve to do after each Confession.

**If the computer is an occasion of grave sin for you, or mortal sin, you would be better off tossing it out the window than continuing to have it. Or unplugging the Internet if that is all it is. You must not visit sites, talk to people, or keep material that is a near occasion of sin to you of this kind. You must also teach yourself to be disgusted with this lust and attraction rather than enticed by it.
**

This attraction is allowable for only one person -after- you are married, not something beforehand. That is what purity is, not desiring it, not having it and not having a predilection to its delectation.

Not only does this offend God, but this is totally unfair to your future wife.

So you need to work on avoiding the occasion of sin in your life, and your desire for this sin as well as use the sacrament properly – it is a sin not to avoid near occasions of sin, you say you are going to do so with each act of contrition, so do so from henceforth. Change your lifestyle completely, and take up spiritual activities instead of sinful ones.

 

[brigid12]

For a person who suffers from scrupulosity, I would suggest:

(A) Only have one confessor.
(B) Make sure that confessor knows about the scrupulosity problem.
(C) Obey that confessor’s instructions concerning frequency of confession, subjects of confession, and prayer.

:sad_yes:

 

[brigid12]

Daily is probably overdoing it, yes, Weekly? No - St Padre Pio, a renowned confessor, said something along the lines of ‘if you want to be a good Catholic, go once a month, if you want to be a saint go once a week’.

Don’t know about you, but in my humble opinion we’re all called to be saints and not just good Catholics. So I wouldn’t say weekly confession is overdoing it.

:yup: And especially as a new convert. When I came into the Church I went more frequently than later (for the first 2 years for me, but I had 45 years worth of conscience forming to “catch up” on then). Now once a month or even every 6 weeks feels about right but that will be individual.

 

[Godfollower]

Disobedience to your confessor is as important a sin as any other, and one that new converts often don’t understand, as the confessor is part of the Church that is one with Christ - so in essence, disobedience/rejection of him is rejection of Christ. Remember, your confessor is in persona christi including one who seems to you to be too lenient!

Remember, God has no reason to love us and let us into Heaven in the first place. There is no such thing as a too-lenient priest, because God’s forgiveness is more leniency than we deserve anyway.

No matter who your confessor is, and no matter what penance gets assigned, and no matter how quickly he grants absolution and no matter how long he withholds absolution, he is already being more lenient than we deserve. But God grants us that leniency and forgiveness. That’s what God’s grace is: we deserve Hell but are given Heaven undeservedly; hallelujah!

So never worry about whether your confessor is “too lenient” for you. That’s a contradiction in terms. If your confessor absolves you, you are absolved – no matter what penance is (or isn’t) assigned.

 

[brigid12]

Remember, God has no reason to love us and let us into Heaven in the first place. There is no such thing as a too-lenient priest, because God’s forgiveness is more leniency than we deserve anyway.

No matter who your confessor is, and no matter what penance gets assigned, and no matter how quickly he grants absolution and no matter how long he withholds absolution, he is already being more lenient than we deserve. But God grants us that leniency and forgiveness. That’s what God’s grace is: we deserve Hell but are given Heaven undeservedly; hallelujah!

So never worry about whether your confessor is “too lenient” for you. That’s a contradiction in terms. If your confessor absolves you, you are absolved – no matter what penance is (or isn’t) assigned.

Even if you don’t yet fully understand that the priest, in his Sacramental duties, acts in the person of Christ, read: Luke 7:1-10.

 

[EasterJoy]

Remember, God has no reason to love us and let us into Heaven in the first place. There is no such thing as a too-lenient priest, because God’s forgiveness is more leniency than we deserve anyway…

So never worry about whether your confessor is “too lenient” for you. That’s a contradiction in terms. If your confessor absolves you, you are absolved – no matter what penance is (or isn’t) assigned.

I think I know what you’re saying but may I expand on what I think you mean? If I’m off-base, let me know.

God has no reason to love us and let us into Heaven except that this is precisely why He made us. That we are utterly impoverished without God is no surprise to God. It is God’s plan. God’s great gift is that we alone, of all creatures, can know that and choose whether or not to admit it and live it. We should not be ashamed to offer God an unmanageable mess. We must absolutely admit, fully and without reservation, that we have no recourse except hope in His boundless mercy. Until we hand over our unmanageable mess, openly admitting that this is what it is and all that our own efforts will ever make it, God can’t even begin to manage it!

What I mean to say is that shame over how undeserving we are is the work of the devil. It is not fear of God. It is the kind of fear about which God says over and over: Fear not!
…

It is true that an absolution is an absolution is an absolution, but it is worthwhile to find a confessor that is right for you.

As for how often is too often, it depends on so many things. Some people get very thirsty because they have exerted themselves seriously in the hot son, others because they’re diabetic. Just as there is more than one thing that can cause unusual thirst for water, there are many reasons that can be behind an unusually high thirst for the sacraments. Not everyone seeks the confessional unusually often because they are scrupulous. Besides the saints under exertion and the scrupulous, some go just for the “high”. Some go often to feed a sort of vanity about their level of devotion, some because they are (ironically!) too lazy to do anything about their habitual sin other than confess it, and so on. These are all part of the human condition, after all.

I would think that anyone going as often as once a week should seriously consider also seeking regular spiritual direction outside the sacrament. This is not to say spiritual direction isn’t for those who go less often! Still, service of God is a matter of “staying clean and sober”, but it is of course it is so much more. A spiritual director will have the time and depth of knowledge of the person to help come to a better judgement about why the penitent is approaching the sacrament at the interval chosen, whether that is sufficient, insufficient, or inappropriately often, how the penitent is or is not benefiting from frequent confession, what this has to do with his or her openness and readiness to be healed of his or her character defects and habitual sins, what it has to do with his or her prayer life, how effectively he or she is living her vocation and state in life, and so on.

In other words, how often is too often is something that must be discerned by each penitent, and on an on-going basis. Once every week or two weeks or once a month are merely suggested starting points that various confessors suggest.

 

[Evan]

I go once a month, but I understand the John Paul II went to confession every week.

Maybe I should go more often.

 

[jmcrae]

I go once a month, but I understand the John Paul II went to confession every week.

Maybe I should go more often.

Just go as often as you have sins to confess, and not less than once a year.

 

[IrishDude45]

This, my friend, is precisely the thought-line of the scrupulous! Being scrupulous is not going to get you into Heaven any more efficiently, it will create Hell on Earth!

I only go once a week, mate. Whoever it was that goes every day, I’m not that bad…

 

[Spirithound]

I only go once a week, mate. Whoever it was that goes every day, I’m not that bad…