Too Much Talk About Sin

[PelagiathePenit]

I remember the priest at the local ministry mentioned even a just man falls seven times a day. As much as I agree there is no excuse for sin. I do wonder if there is too much emphasis on it. I honestly do not believe with our own free-will and constant prayer a person can fully stop sinning. We are called to be Christians, not Christ. I do not think there is ever an excuse for sin. Sometimes I think Christians focus so much on it. I understand as Christians we should be a good role model or example. I have never liked the whole “no body’s perfect” excuse. I do believe in personal responsibility. I DO NOT AGREE WITH HOW CHRISTIANS EXPECT THEMSELVES OR OTHERS TO REACT IDEALLY TO EVERY SINGLE SITUATION. Sorry, I wrote in caps. I find this in books, forums, blogs, Christian groups. Christians can be incredibly harsh towards one another. Christians are humans. Humans get angry, accidently curse, forget promises, etc. While correction and upholding the law is important, so is mercy and forgiveness. It is not fair to ever expect anyone, including yourself, to be perfect. We are developing differently and have different paths to follow. As much as correction is right, I think people often forget FORGIVENESS & MERCY.

 

[nagyszakall]

I honestly do not believe with our own free-will and constant prayer a person can fully stop sinning.

I read somewhere that the confessor of St Therese of Lisieux said that he thought she never committed a mortal sin…

I was amazed even at that.

However, I don’t think there is enough talk about sin… In my opinion, that is why in many places, for example, there is this crazy talk about the possibility of people in state of sin receiving communion. (They call it “divorced and remarried”, whereas there is no such thing as either divorce [since marriage is indissoluble] or re-“marriage” [polygamy is not valid, you can’t get married validly to a second or third, as long as the first one persists, meaning, your validly wedded spouse is still alive]; adultery is the name, but people won’t use it and many [also priests] refuse to accept that it is a sin.)

 

[Mary_Ellen]

Oh, I disagree with the OP.

I do wonder if there is too much emphasis on it.

There isn’t enough emphasis on it. The world no longer believes anything is sin, no longer believes in sin, period.

Pope Francis was recently quoted by the Vatican Insider as saying “When you lose the sense of sin, you lose the sense of the Kingdom of God" When the Lord is absent among men, they “lose the sense of sin” and others risk falling victim to “Christian mediocrity.” Francis warned against this in this morning’s homily in St. Martha’s House. (1/31/2014)

In “Reconciliation and Penance” Pope St. John Paul II wrote an entire section on the topic of the loss of the sense of sin. I quote in parts:
I asked two years ago in an address to the faithful “Is it not true that modern man is threatened by an eclipse of conscience? By a deformation of conscience? By a numbness or ‘deadening’ of conscience,” Too many signs indicate that such an eclipse exists in our time.
When the conscience is weakened the sense of God is also obscured, and as a result, with the loss of this decisive inner point of reference, the sense of sin is lost. This explains why my predecessor Pius XI, one day declared, in words that have almost become proverbial, that “the sin of the century is the loss of the sense of sin”(emphasis mine).

It is not fair to ever expect anyone, including yourself, to be perfect.

It may not be fair but perfection is what we are called to. Jesus said (in Matthew 5:48) “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” James echoes this in his epistle (1:4) “…that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.” James’ whole chapter is about being perfect in the virtues.

St. Teresa of Avila wrote “It is evident that one who would merely aim at avoiding mortals sin would not be living according to the standard of moral conduct outlined in the Gospel. Our Lord proposes to us as the ideal of holiness the very perfection of Our Heavenly Father: “Be ye therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.” Hence, all having God for their Father must approach this divine perfection - which evidently cannot be accomplished without progress.”

We are called to be Christians, not Christ.

Are we not members of the Body of Christ? Here on earth? What else does it mean to be Christian but to be as Christ-like as possible? If we are what we eat, at least as Catholics we are to be Christ or we make a mockery of the true Presence of Our Lord. Every time we partake of the Body and Blood we should be striving to allow God to transform us more and more into Christ’s presence here on earth.

I honestly do not believe with our own free-will and constant prayer a person can fully stop sinning.

I don’t believe this, either. It is by God’s GRACE that we can be freed from sin. By his grace we become aware of the sin in our lives, rout it out, confess it, and conquer it. St. Teresa goes even further and advises that we not only confess our mortal and venial sins but also bring our temptations, imperfections, and dislikes to our confessors for advice and counsel in overcoming them.

Forgiveness and Mercy are for those who are repentant, they are the ones who are willing to receive these gifts from God. Unfortunately without a rightly formed conscience and without a sense of sin there is no repentance.

 

[glendab]

Hello Pelagia.

I remember the priest at the local ministry mentioned even a just man falls seven times a day. As much as I agree there is no excuse for sin. I do wonder if there is too much emphasis on it. I honestly do not believe with our own free-will and constant prayer a person can fully stop sinning. We are called to be Christians, not Christ. I do not think there is ever an excuse for sin. Sometimes I think Christians focus so much on it. I understand as Christians we should be a good role model or example. I have never liked the whole “no body’s perfect” excuse. I do believe in personal responsibility. I DO NOT AGREE WITH HOW CHRISTIANS EXPECT THEMSELVES OR OTHERS TO REACT IDEALLY TO EVERY SINGLE SITUATION. Sorry, I wrote in caps. I find this in books, forums, blogs, Christian groups. Christians can be incredibly harsh towards one another. Christians are humans. Humans get angry, accidently curse, forget promises, etc. While correction and upholding the law is important, so is mercy and forgiveness. It is not fair to ever expect anyone, including yourself, to be perfect. We are developing differently and have different paths to follow. As much as correction is right, I think people often forget FORGIVENESS & MERCY.

Actually I hardly ever hear about the evils of sin in the local parish where I go to Church. I attend several daily Masses each week as well as Sunday and at each daily Mass there is a short homily. I hardly ever hear the Priests who serve there speak against sin or the current evils plaguing our society these days, i.e. abortion, contraception, religious liberties, SSM, the Martyrdoms overseas of Christians in Muslim lands, etc. Yeah, so your actually pretty lucky if you hear all about sin each Sunday if you ask me.

Glenda

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Hello Pelagia.

Actually I hardly ever hear about the evils of sin in the local parish where I go to Church. I attend several daily Masses each week as well as Sunday and at each daily Mass there is a short homily. I hardly ever hear the Priests who serve there speak against sin or the current evils plaguing our society these days, i.e. abortion, contraception, religious liberties, SSM, the Martyrdoms overseas of Christians in Muslim lands, etc. Yeah, so your actually pretty lucky if you hear all about sin each Sunday if you ask me.

Glenda

Ok. I never thought about it that way.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

I read somewhere that the confessor of St Therese of Lisieux said that he thought she never committed a mortal sin…

I was amazed even at that.

However, I don’t think there is enough talk about sin… In my opinion, that is why in many places, for example, there is this crazy talk about the possibility of people in state of sin receiving communion. (They call it “divorced and remarried”, whereas there is no such thing as either divorce [since marriage is indissoluble] or re-“marriage” [polygamy is not valid, you can’t get married validly to a second or third, as long as the first one persists, meaning, your validly wedded spouse is still alive]; adultery is the name, but people won’t use it and many [also priests] refuse to accept that it is a sin.)

Ok. I guess I did not think it was possible. All things are possible through Christ.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Oh, I disagree with the OP.

There isn’t enough emphasis on it. The world no longer believes anything is sin, no longer believes in sin, period.

Pope Francis was recently quoted by the Vatican Insider as saying “When you lose the sense of sin, you lose the sense of the Kingdom of God" When the Lord is absent among men, they “lose the sense of sin” and others risk falling victim to “Christian mediocrity.” Francis warned against this in this morning’s homily in St. Martha’s House. (1/31/2014)

In “Reconciliation and Penance” Pope St. John Paul II wrote an entire section on the topic of the loss of the sense of sin. I quote in parts:
I asked two years ago in an address to the faithful “Is it not true that modern man is threatened by an eclipse of conscience? By a deformation of conscience? By a numbness or ‘deadening’ of conscience,” Too many signs indicate that such an eclipse exists in our time.
When the conscience is weakened the sense of God is also obscured, and as a result, with the loss of this decisive inner point of reference, the sense of sin is lost. This explains why my predecessor Pius XI, one day declared, in words that have almost become proverbial, that “the sin of the century is the loss of the sense of sin”(emphasis mine).

It may not be fair but perfection is what we are called to. Jesus said (in Matthew 5:48) “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” James echoes this in his epistle (1:4) “…that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.” James’ whole chapter is about being perfect in the virtues.

St. Teresa of Avila wrote “It is evident that one who would merely aim at avoiding mortals sin would not be living according to the standard of moral conduct outlined in the Gospel. Our Lord proposes to us as the ideal of holiness the very perfection of Our Heavenly Father: “Be ye therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.” Hence, all having God for their Father must approach this divine perfection - which evidently cannot be accomplished without progress.”

Are we not members of the Body of Christ? Here on earth? What else does it mean to be Christian but to be as Christ-like as possible? If we are what we eat, at least as Catholics we are to be Christ or we make a mockery of the true Presence of Our Lord. Every time we partake of the Body and Blood we should be striving to allow God to transform us more and more into Christ’s presence here on earth.

I don’t believe this, either. It is by God’s GRACE that we can be freed from sin. By his grace we become aware of the sin in our lives, rout it out, confess it, and conquer it. St. Teresa goes even further and advises that we not only confess our mortal and venial sins but also bring our temptations, imperfections, and dislikes to our confessors for advice and counsel in overcoming them.

Forgiveness and Mercy are for those who are repentant, they are the ones who are willing to receive these gifts from God. Unfortunately without a rightly formed conscience and without a sense of sin there is no repentance.

OK. Thanks. I read this.

 

[glendab]

Something else I thought of: the Protestants have their own way of seeing sin and much of it is skewed to “prove” their points. Jansenism was a really severe type of heresy and it snuck up on folks as a conviction of sin. It for one thing sold many Catholics on the notion of their unworthiness to receive Holy Communion and this had a very sad effect in that most stopped receiving the Blessed Sacrament in some areas. And they had their Biblical supports for their heresy. These days we have a sort of opposite view working the crowds - everyone is worthy whether worthy or not and few frequent Confession to the point that on Saturdays in lots of places only a handful show up instead of the lines out the door as there once were. Not good either. God will tire of it and send some Saints who will remedy it and things will get set right, then something else will come along. Really never a dull moment in the Vineyard, not at all.

Glenda

 

[Teelynn]

Hello Pelagia.

Actually I hardly ever hear about the evils of sin in the local parish where I go to Church. I attend several daily Masses each week as well as Sunday and at each daily Mass there is a short homily. I hardly ever hear the Priests who serve there speak against sin or the current evils plaguing our society these days, i.e. abortion, contraception, religious liberties, SSM, the Martyrdoms overseas of Christians in Muslim lands, etc. Yeah, so your actually pretty lucky if you hear all about sin each Sunday if you ask me.

Glenda

Yep, I experience the same thing Glenda. Once about a year ago, the Pastor and our Associate had a homily about true Christian marriage. Everyone applauded at both Masses. Later, the Associate was approached and told he was EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE to a particular person. The Associate then apologized. I guess what was offensive is that they both said that Marriage, the way God designed it was between one man and one woman. I have never understood what’s so offensive about that, other than the fact of maybe not being inclusive to irregular unions.

That was the ONLY homily I’ve heard in over 30 years now that talked about anything even related to sin. Truthfully, I get other homilies online from Priests that include some of the ‘meat’ of our faith. I haven’t gotten that in almost half a century from my home parish. All we get from our Parish is…‘I’m OK, you’re OK.’

 

[glendab]

Hello Teelyn.

Yep, I experience the same thing Glenda. Once about a year ago, the Pastor and our Associate had a homily about true Christian marriage. Everyone applauded at both Masses. Later, the Associate was approached and told he was EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE to a particular person. The Associate then apologized. I guess what was offensive is that they both said that Marriage, the way God designed it was between one man and one woman. I have never understood what’s so offensive about that, other than the fact of maybe not being inclusive to irregular unions.

That was the ONLY homily I’ve heard in over 30 years now that talked about anything even related to sin. Truthfully, I get other homilies online from Priests that include some of the ‘meat’ of our faith. I haven’t gotten that in almost half a century from my home parish. All we get from our Parish is…‘I’m OK, you’re OK.’

Guess this is why EWTN got so popular. You could find what was lacking there. I still do.

Your example reminded me of something Jesus said: “…and let no one be offended in Me…” Perhaps the person expects the Hallmark seal of approval on all homilies in Church on Sunday and is like so many others, there to be entertained rather than informed or formed in the faith. Oh well. Jesus Himself would prove very disappointing too I’m afraid.

Glenda

 

[josh987654321]

I remember the priest at the local ministry mentioned even a just man falls seven times a day. As much as I agree there is no excuse for sin. I do wonder if there is too much emphasis on it. I honestly do not believe with our own free-will and constant prayer a person can fully stop sinning. We are called to be Christians, not Christ. I do not think there is ever an excuse for sin. Sometimes I think Christians focus so much on it. I understand as Christians we should be a good role model or example. I have never liked the whole “no body’s perfect” excuse. I do believe in personal responsibility. I DO NOT AGREE WITH HOW CHRISTIANS EXPECT THEMSELVES OR OTHERS TO REACT IDEALLY TO EVERY SINGLE SITUATION. Sorry, I wrote in caps. I find this in books, forums, blogs, Christian groups. Christians can be incredibly harsh towards one another. Christians are humans. Humans get angry, accidently curse, forget promises, etc. While correction and upholding the law is important, so is mercy and forgiveness. It is not fair to ever expect anyone, including yourself, to be perfect. We are developing differently and have different paths to follow. As much as correction is right, I think people often forget FORGIVENESS & MERCY.

I think I could probably sum it up with these quotes.

Jesus to St. Faustina -

"Mankind will not have peace until it turns with trust to My mercy. Oh, how much I am hurt by a soul’s distrust! Such a soul professes that I am Holy and Just, but does not believe that I am Mercy and does not trust in My Goodness. Even the devils glorify My Justice but do not believe in My Goodness" (Diary, 300).

"Tell sinful souls not to be afraid to approach Me; speak to them of My great mercy" (Diary, 1396).

"…who will proclaim My great mercy. I shall protect them Myself at the hour of death, as My own glory. And even if the sins of souls were as dark as night, when the sinner turns to My mercy, he gives Me the greatest praise and is the glory of My Passion. When a soul extols My goodness, Satan trembles before it and flees to the very bottom of hell" (Diary, 378).

"Souls who spread the honor of My mercy I shield through their entire lives as a tender mother her infant, and at the hour of death I will not be a Judge for them, but the Merciful Saviour." (Diary 1075).

I believe the painting of a ‘fire and brimestone’ God does much harm to souls.

Yesterday at mass we heard this passage -

Rmoans 8:38-39

38 I am sure that nothing can separate us from God’s love—not life or death, not angels or spirits, not the present or the future, 39 and not powers above or powers below. Nothing in all creation can separate us from God’s love for us in Christ Jesus our Lord!

And the ‘fire and brimestone’ God that people sometimes wish to paint, are not the feelings of a God who has shed all of His blood for us on the Cross, who allowed His sacred heart to be pierced with a lance thus opening wide the source of mercy for us.

If you like, I have quoted a small chapter our of the book ‘Life of Christ’ by Fulton J. Sheen that I believe may help.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

I also believe it’s wrong for anyone to throw their hands up and say *“We will always be sinners.” *We may always be sinners, because in sin we were born, but united to God’s love and mercy, I believe we will advance in virtue.

"How very much I desire the salvation of souls! My dearest secretary, write that I want to pour out My divine life into human souls and sanctify them, if only they were willing to accept My grace. The greatest sinners would achieve great sanctity, if only they would trust in My mercy. The very inner depths of My being are filled to overflowing with mercy, and it is being poured out upon all I have created…" (Diary, 1784).
Jesus to Catalina:

The Great Crusade of Mercy - loveandmercy.org/Eng-CM-Reg.pdf
**
11) Mercy is love, My child. It is union with God and union with God is the certitude of victory and an everlasting abundance of virtues. Mercy is the unquestionable proof of love for Me.**

In the Old Testament, the people used to offer sacrifices to God in order to atone for their sins.

Instead of offering sacrifices to me, I want you to be merciful to others. Matthew 9:13

Thus I believe we do these things out of love for God, not our of fear of punnishment, we avoid sin, because we are afraid of hurting the one we love, not because we are afraid of an omnipotent God raining down fire and brimestone.

"The Passion of Christ is sufficient to serve as a guide and model for our entire life… On the Cross, we find the example of every virtue.” - St. Thomas Aquinas

I believe the best way to overcome sin is by meditating on the price He paid to forgive us our sins.

I hope this has helped (I tried to articulate my thoughts as best as I could)

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

G.K. Chesterton did say that our religion is unique, in that we achieve a peculiar balance by going to extremes in all direction. Yes, we decry the evil of sin like nobody ever had, but we also proclaim the power of mercy and the excellence of human virtue like nobody ever had.

A sensible pagan would say that there were some people one could forgive, and some one couldn’t: a slave who stole wine could be laughed at; a slave who betrayed his benefactor could be killed, and cursed even after he was killed. In so far as the act was pardonable, the man was pardonable. That again is rational, and even refreshing; but it is a dilution. It leaves no place for a pure horror of injustice, such as that which is a great beauty in the innocent. And it leaves no place for a mere tenderness for men as men, such as is the whole fascination of the charitable. Christianity came in here as before. It came in startlingly with a sword, and clove one thing from another. It divided the crime from the criminal. The criminal we must forgive unto seventy times seven. The crime we must not forgive at all. It was not enough that slaves who stole wine inspired partly anger and partly kindness. We must be much more angry with theft than before, and yet much kinder to thieves than before. There was room for wrath and love to run wild…

This was the big fact about Christian ethics; the discovery of the new balance. Paganism had been like a pillar of marble, upright because proportioned with symmetry. Christianity was like a huge and ragged and romantic rock, which, though it sways on its pedestal at a touch, yet, because its exaggerated excrescences exactly balance each other, is enthroned there for a thousand years.

G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy

 

[ProVobis]

Christ died for the remission of sin. Therefore it must exist in each one of us.

 

[animalis]

I would ask, Do you believe our Creed? Do you believe it’s the most perfect symbol of our faith? We recite it much, including the article which professes "I believe in one, holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins "

The saints indeed preached fire and brimstone. I wouldn’t try to endeavour to emphasize what I conceptualize and claim it is as soild as the creed. Because of that lack of ability, we see the necessity for teachers of the faith to obtain and promote rightful authority in the bishop’s office regarding teaching.

A balance that steers clear of deep idolatry is a condition for right reason in the confession of faith. This balance is achieved by a lucid virtuous life, and all the articles of the creed have upmost lucidity.