Too much weight on humane vitae?

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notredame_999

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It seems that too much emphasis is put on humane viate when citing the church’s 2000 year old doctrine of banning artificial contraception. Even if Pope Paul VI decided to allow artificial contraception for married couples in extraordinary circumstances, would he even have the authority to do so?
 
It’s not a secret that there was a whole segment of many, many ordained, consecrated and lay people who were amazed and disappointed at the direction of this document – we had hoped for something more compassionate and understanding along those lines. This is also where A LOT of the unrest has come from in the hearts of otherwise faithful adult Catholics and the source of the decision for many to, unfortunately, seek Christ elsewhere.
 
It seems that too much emphasis is put on humane viate when citing the church’s 2000 year old doctrine of banning artificial contraception. Even if Pope Paul VI decided to allow artificial contraception for married couples in extraordinary circumstances, would he even have the authority to do so?
To my mind, not enough emphasis is placed on Humanae Vitae. Nor is the Church’s 2000-year-old doctrine of banning artificial contraception cited enough.

For the moment, I will leave your question regarding Pope Paul VI to more scholarly members of the forum in the hope that you’ll get a better response than I could offer.

My question to you is, how would you handle evangelization efforts connected with spreading the Church’s teaching on the matter of contraception?

Yours “for life,” 🙂

~~ the phoenix
 
It’s not a secret that there was a whole segment of many, many ordained, consecrated and lay people who were amazed and disappointed at the direction of this document – we had hoped for something more **compassionate **and **understanding ** along those lines. This is also where A LOT of the **unrest ** has come from in the hearts of otherwise faithful adult Catholics and the source of the decision for many to, unfortunately, seek Christ elsewhere.
God’s ways are far above man’s ways. God is Love and Mercy. The Catholic Church is directed by the Holy Spirit. The teachings of the Catholic Church are therefore the essence of compassion. And understanding is one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Come Holy Spirit, and grant us the understanding to follow the teachings of the Catholic Church!

As for any unrest in the hearts of Catholics, a Doctor of the Church sums it up well:

“Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they find their rest in thee…”
~~ St. Augustine

St. Augustine of Hippo, pray for us!

:signofcross:
 
To my mind, not enough emphasis is placed on Humanae Vitae. Nor is the Church’s 2000-year-old doctrine of banning artificial contraception cited enough.

For the moment, I will leave your question regarding Pope Paul VI to more scholarly members of the forum in the hope that you’ll get a better response than I could offer.

My question to you is, how would you handle evangelization efforts connected with spreading the Church’s teaching on the matter of contraception?

Yours “for life,” 🙂

~~ the phoenix
By quoting condemnations from previous popes, by quoting the church fathers in regard to marriage being instituted PRIMARILY for procreation, by quoting saints…etc.
 
By quoting condemnations from previous popes, by quoting the church fathers in regard to marriage being instituted PRIMARILY for procreation, by quoting saints…etc.
Sounds good to me. Thanks for bringing up these ideas. I hope many other CAF members will find them as helpful as I do.

:tiphat:
 
It seems that too much emphasis is put on humane viate when citing the church’s 2000 year old doctrine of banning artificial contraception. Even if Pope Paul VI decided to allow artificial contraception for married couples in extraordinary circumstances, would he even have the authority to do so?
It is worthwhile to note that all Christian churches were united in their opposition to contraception until as recently as the early decades of the 20th century. It was not until 1930 that the Anglican Church went on record as saying that contraception was permissible, for grave reasons, within marriage. It was also at this time that Pope Pius XI issued the encyclical Casti Connubii, in which he reiterated what has been the constant teaching of the Catholic Church: Contraception is intrinsically wrong. Humanae Vitae merely expounded on a constant teaching. Catholic Answers traces the historical teaching from the Apostolic Tradition, where as early as A.D. 195, Clement of Alexandria wrote, *“Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted” (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2).
*

I have written my opinion on the matter here:
randomthoughtsmusings.blogspot.com/2008/11/is-humanae-vitae-reformable-how.html
and have come to the conclusion that the teaching in Humanae Vitae is irreformable, even in the year 1968. On the occasion of the 40th anniversary of Humanae Vitae in 2008 , Pope Benedict XVI states: “The truth expressed in Humanae Vitae does not change. Quite the contrary, in the light of new scientific discoveries, its teaching becomes more relevant and stimulates reflection on the intrinsic values it possesses.”.
 
It’s not a secret that there was a whole segment of many, many ordained, consecrated and lay people who were amazed and disappointed at the direction of this document – we had hoped for something more compassionate and understanding along those lines. This is also where A LOT of the unrest has come from in the hearts of otherwise faithful adult Catholics and the source of the decision for many to, unfortunately, seek Christ elsewhere.
And why were they disappointed? What were they waiting for? Sex and more sex? Unrest over not getting permission to use artificial contraception?

The fact is that Humanae Vitae affirmed not only Church teaching but a mature and rational approach to human sexuality. It was the Hippies who were yelling Free Love! Sex with anybody. It was Hugh Hefner with his Playboy Philosophy who insisted sex was just a plaything and physical pleasure was job one. Pope Paul VI warned the faithful and all men of good will that you will regard the love of your life less and that there would be an increase in promiscuity.

But thanks to the global attack on the Catholic Church, the perverts brought their world into our world. Adult bookstores in our neighborhoods, along with topless bars and strip clubs. Swinger magazines with ads from people looking for casual sex. They said, “Here. Roll around in the mud just like we do.”

They then spent the following decades sexualizing all media with dirty radio, dirty phone lines, dirty TV, and dirty movies. Love and romance was replaced with ‘just sex.’

Read the Bible and look for the words harlot, whoredoms and fornication. A mature, responsible adult has command over his passions, including the sexual. All this boils down to is ‘the Church wouldn’t let us have more fun.’ The normal, natural purpose of sexual intercourse is reproduction.

Today, one in five people are walking around with an STD. This is better? People who are only concerned about taking a test drive to be sure the other person will be ‘good in bed’ can and do end up like a 32 year old beauty who I met. She was married for 9 months. Why did she divorce? “I found out my husband was a nut.” Found out? And didn’t she notice any nutty behavior while they were dating or was it all about test drives?

God bless,
Ed
 
It’s not a secret that there was a whole segment of many, many ordained, consecrated and lay people who were amazed and disappointed at the direction of this document – we had hoped for something more compassionate and understanding along those lines. This is also where A LOT of the unrest has come from in the hearts of otherwise faithful adult Catholics and the source of the decision for many to, unfortunately, seek Christ elsewhere.
LOL, the same generation who was just dying to throw the Friday abstinance out the window as soon as it stopped being a mortal sin, also wanted to be able to start having sex without responsibility too. Oh, and to not have to pray anymore, except on Sunday at mass for 45 minutes, although they wanted Sunday mass to be optional too! Something went REALLY wrong in that generation’s religious formation.
 
LOL, the same generation who was just dying to throw the Friday abstinance out the window as soon as it stopped being a mortal sin, also wanted to be able to start having sex without responsibility too. Oh, and to not have to pray anymore, except on Sunday at mass for 45 minutes, although they wanted Sunday mass to be optional too! Something went REALLY wrong in that generation’s religious formation.
Friday abstinance from meat became optional. You can still follow it, and I drive by plenty of places that offer a Friday Fish Fry.

God bless,
Ed
 
It seems that too much emphasis is put on humane viate when citing the church’s 2000 year old doctrine of banning artificial contraception. Even if Pope Paul VI decided to allow artificial contraception for married couples in extraordinary circumstances, would he even have the authority to do so?
Humanae Vitae was necessary to clarify the Church’s position. The reaction from the priests and bishops to Paul VI’s earlier document, Progressio Populorum, about using your “conscience” in deciding the size of your family, along with Paul VI’s assembling a whole slew of moral theologians who didn’t have any problems with taking the “pill” led many, if not most, to believe the Church was changing its position on artificial birth control. IMO HV came too late.
 
Friday abstinance from meat became optional. You can still follow it, and I drive by plenty of places that offer a Friday Fish Fry.
I agree, it became optional. What’s sad is that as soon as it became optional, almost everyone (from what I’ve seen) stopped practicing it. At least around here. I know a few catholics still observe it, but most, when they hear of it, say “that ended in the 60’s!” :rolleyes:
 
It was the Hippies who were yelling Free Love!
There were many people before the hippies and Hugh Hefner who practiced and advocated sex outside of permissible parameters; society simply didn’t see/hear them because there was not a medium that could reach from one corner of the country to another like there is today. What we see today is the result of the secularization of Western Civilization, a process that has its origins in the 18th century.

While I certainly uphold the Truths of Humane Vitae I realize that there are those who, either against their own conscience or through their own ignorance, do not understand the issue. As was mentioned before, in 1930 the Anglican Church changed it’s teachings on sexual morality and there weren’t any hippies there. The Vatican II Council was called because it saw the changes in society and had to address them before it was too late. My point is, that birth control, abortion, sex outside of marriage, homosexuality, pornography and all of the other social ills that we have today did not start with the “hippies” in the 1960s.
 
Friday abstinance from meat became optional.
It was clarified later that some form of penance was still required on Fridays. Paul VI’s left the matter up to our higher levels of spirituality to abstain from Friday meat.
 
There were many people before the hippies and Hugh Hefner who practiced and advocated sex outside of permissible parameters; society simply didn’t see/hear them because there was not a medium that could reach from one corner of the country to another like there is today. What we see today is the result of the secularization of Western Civilization, a process that has its origins in the 18th century.

While I certainly uphold the Truths of Humane Vitae I realize that there are those who, either against their own conscience or through their own ignorance, do not understand the issue. As was mentioned before, in 1930 the Anglican Church changed it’s teachings on sexual morality and there weren’t any hippies there. The Vatican II Council was called because it saw the changes in society and had to address them before it was too late. My point is, that birth control, abortion, sex outside of marriage, homosexuality, pornography and all of the other social ills that we have today did not start with the “hippies” in the 1960s.
And my point is this: I was there. Prior to the Hippies running around, a lot of things were socially unacceptable, especially regarding sexual activity and modesty. Marriage was held in very high regard. This is a Catholic, not an Anglican forum. My focus is on Catholics.

In the 1960s, skirts worn by Catholic girls had to cover the knees.
The mini-skirt was regarded as a scandal.
Girlie magazines were hard to get much less explicit pornography.

“Performers” could be arrested for a lewd or obscence performance.
Divorce was rare and if it occurred, a scandal.
Abortion was rare and if it occurred, a scandal.

The medium that could reach from one part of the country to the other was television. In the 1960s, time was set aside during programming so that a man from the station’s Standards and Practices Department could tell viewers that they watched everything we watched to make sure it was suitable for the entire family. Do you understand? There were standards in place that would not allow 90% of what is shown on TV today to exist.

The world of the sexual pervert was underground. It did not exist in the “mainstream” world. Art houses showing “art films” had a rather exclusive clientele.

By the 1970s, a small group of lawyers, judges and organized crime, decided to legalize filth and perversion. Were the following a Catholic initiative?

Adult bookstores.
Topless bars.
Strip clubs.
Swinger magazines.

1973 By nonscientific vote, homosexuality is removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. Go ahead. Look it up.

Sexual perverts brought all of that into our neighborhoods so we could have direct access to their previously hidden, underground world. Then the moves and TV gradually began to inject a little poison into our veins. Oh at first it was a little off color, a little risque, then it got a little worse, and a little worse, until the 1980s and porn on cable. Then let’s throw in No-Fault Divorce and movies that said if you got divorced it was OK. Or how about books with titles like: How to Have a Healthy Divorce. Divorce? Healthy?

It took 40 years of hearing: “Leave us alone! Mind your own business! We’ll live however we want to! You bunch of prudes!” to wear down parents and friends who asked why? Why are living with your girlfriend outside of marriage?

And there used to be something called dating - without sex. There was courtship. There was engagement. And then there was marriage. Today? What do you have? Meaningless 'just sex." The other person being turned into a thing for momentary pleasure. And what did sexual perverts say to those who objected: “Two consenting adults. Mind your own business.” So why the cover-up by the porn industry who need to call what they do “Adult Entertainment”?

And if you want to know why the Second Vatican Council was called, here is the opening statement from Pope John XXIII:

ourladyswarriors.org/teach/v2open.htm

God bless,
Ed
 
And my point is this: I was there. Prior to the Hippies running around, a lot of things were socially unacceptable, especially regarding sexual activity and modesty. Marriage was held in very high regard.
And even today many of the things you rant about are still socially unacceptable in regards to sexual activity and modesty. Yet, your obsession that everything came from the the “hippies” is simply mistaken. The Kinsey Report, while flawed to a degree, showed that in 1948 people were much more sexual than traditionally viewed.
 
The Kinsey Report was more than flawed. It was filled with flasehoods that had a negative
impact on public policy and guidance.

catholicinsight.com/online/reviews/films/kinseysx.shtml

There were even questions at the time about the validity of his research. We have more STDs today than we had in 1960.

catholicity.com/commentary/browder/06535.html

It is very clear that the last 40 years in the West was a social engineering experiment. The goal? To turn sexual perversion into a mainstream activity. To separate sex from true love and real intimacy, and to legalize sin.

God bless,
Ed
 
The Kinsey Report was more than flawed. It was filled with flasehoods that had a negative
impact on public policy and guidance.
Filled with falsehoods? So now, you are suggesting that the report was skewed to “turn sexual perversion into a mainstream activity?” This sounds like the case of attacking the messenger when one doesn’t like the message.
It is very clear that the last 40 years in the West was a social engineering experiment. The goal? To turn sexual perversion into a mainstream activity. To separate sex from true love and real intimacy, and to legalize sin.
Do you mean to tell me that there was no out of wedlock sex, no adultery, no homosexuality, no attempts at birth control until the past 40 years? Even that “patriarch” of Catholic presidents, John F. Kennedy, had more than his share of mistresses, along with his brothers and his father before him.

Next, you are going to say that nobody started masturbating until these past 40 years. I’ve got news for you; people have always been sexual, within marriage and without. The things that are going on now were going on 100 years ago and 100 years before that. The Sun King himself, Louis XIV, had his share of official and unofficial mistresses. Porn movies were some of the first movies to be made after the invention of the movie camera. There was no such thing as the “good old days.”
 
Just as an aside, there was a key development which coincided with the proclamation of HV in 1968 - the growing acceptance of the pill. The pill was medically approved in 1960, and prior to HV, there was no formal verdict from the Church as to its moral acceptability. In fact, many from the Church hierarchy even appeared to endorse it. The pill was growing in acceptance, at a time when alternative artificial contraceptives proved to be dangerous and less effective. At this time, modern NFP (based on Billings-Ovulation method) was still in the development stage, and the only purely natural means available was the highly unreliable calendar-rhythm method. In 1965, a Gallup poll of Catholics showed that 61% favored birth control. One must also remember that Pope Paul VI went against the majority recommendation of a Vatican commission to study the issue. All of which just means that the Church never teaches based on popularity or plurality - only on the leadings of the Holy Spirit. The majority is not always right, after all, the crowd released Barrabbas instead.
 
This is also where A LOT of the unrest has come from in the hearts of otherwise faithful adult Catholics and the source of the decision for many to, unfortunately, seek Christ elsewhere.
As they should. For the life of me, I can’t understand why people who cannot believe what the Church teaches think they should stay, or worse, try to change it.
 
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