Top 10 reasons women should dress modestly

[cviolette]

Well…why do you “want to look good”. Do you want to look good so that perhaps some other women will say…Gee…I don’t know how she does it all…she has kids, she works, she builds sail boats, she transcribes arabic…etc…how does she keep it all together. And in this way you invite questions…which you can then point to God in your life?

Or do you want to look good because you’re vain, you’re proud of yourself, you’re like the attention?

You of course don’t have to ask these questions…but these are the sorts of questions Catholics should occasionally ask themselves about why they do the things they do.

Are we doing things to bring others to God? to help them find peace and serenity?

Or are we doing things for more earthly and temporally limited reasons?

I only returned to the Church last August. I have been modifying my wardrobe over the last few months to more appropriate clothing. I am trying to find balance. One of the men in my church suggested I trying dressing like two women in my church. They are both in their 70s. I am not quite ready to dress like an elderly woman.

Well, I certainly do not do it to impress women or get them to ask me questions. I prefer to be left alone. I am not into dressing up, hair or jewelry. I am more the athletic type.

I would say it is more vanity and attention. But also I like to look attractive for my husband and to be honest for men in general.

I would say that I do it for more earthy reasons.

When I am choosing my outfit for daily mass, I am choosing something that looks nice because I want to look nice for church. I dress respectfully. I just want to dress a little less modest outside of church. Also, because I don’t really have that many modest summer clothes. I asked my spiritual director if I am dressing okay and he said my clothes are fine. Maybe, I’ll ask one of the women from church. I just don’t feel a need to get too extreme. Looking for balance.

 

[Edward_H]

I only returned to the Church last August. I have been modifying my wardrobe over the last few months to more appropriate clothing. I am trying to find balance. One of the men in my church suggested I trying dressing like two women in my church. They are both in their 70s. I am not quite ready to dress like an elderly woman.

Well, I certainly do not do it to impress women or get them to ask me questions. I prefer to be left alone. I am not into dressing up, hair or jewelry. I am more the athletic type.

I would say it is more vanity and attention. But also I like to look attractive for my husband and to be honest for men in general.

I would say that I do it for more earthy reasons.

When I am choosing my outfit for daily mass, I am choosing something that looks nice because I want to look nice for church. I dress respectfully. I just want to dress a little less modest outside of church. Also, because I don’t really have that many modest summer clothes. I asked my spiritual director if I am dressing okay and he said my clothes are fine. Maybe, I’ll ask one of the women from church. I just don’t feel a need to get too extreme. Looking for balance.

Well, I really don’t know what I am talking about. My wife dresses modestly and we have a wonderful marriage. There was a book out some years ago on Modesty…the author…“Wendy Shalit” (spelling?)…used the terms “modesty is an erotic virtue”. She had some great points.

Balance sounds good. Love of God, love for your husband.

Men need help from women to be our best for God. We can decry this, but I think it’s true.

 

[Walking_Home]

All these modesty threads have started to get me paranoid. **I went to a dinner tonight with some people from my parish and the priest was there. I started worrying during the dinner if my shirt was too low cut or pants too tight. **

I went with my husband and like to look nice. My husband prefers that I dress sexy. I have toned things done but I don’t want to dress like I am 80 years old. I work hard to have a nice body and want to look good.

I do make sure that I dress more conservatively for mass but I don’t want to dress that way all the time.

---

That is what the “Modesty Police” does to women. Do Not let them get to you – or you will end up paranoid. Again — do Not let any “self professed arbiter of modesty” — mess with your mind.

 

[Edward_H]

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That is what the “Modesty Police” does to women. Do Not let them get to you – or you will end up paranoid. Again — do Not let any “self professed arbiter of modesty” — mess with your mind.

Listen to God and not any feminist police, or any self-professed arbiter of sleaze.

 

[Walking_Home]

Listen to God and not any feminist police, or any self-professed arbiter of sleaze.

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I listen to the Church via the catechism – and the Church does not make the demands that you and your ilk --" self professed moderators of modesty" — want to shove down womens throats. So bug off.

 

[Edward_H]

Knowing the Catechism is a good thing.

1. Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.
2. Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires ones choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is descreet. (italics CM)
3. There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body… Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

 

[Walking_Home]

Knowing the Catechism is a good thing.

1. Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.
2. Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires ones choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is descreet. (italics CM)
3. There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body… Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

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You left the main one out:

CCC 2524
The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.
Michelle Arnold:

Catholic Answers Apologist

Modesty is a virtue that encompasses more than clothing choice, although our clothing choices are a practical working out of the virtue of modesty. Modesty is defined by the Catechism of the Catholic Church (2522):

Quote:
Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

The Church does not mandate any one clothing choice for women – or for men, for that matter. According to the CCC (2524):

Quote:
The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.
So, while this family’s clothing choice is one modest option, it is not the only option and should not be presented “the Marian way” of modest dress, as if this choice was the only clothing that would be approved for women by the Blessed Virgin Mary.

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“If anyone comes to me, I want to lead them to Him.” --St. Edith Stein

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=8407

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You’ve missed my whole post dedicated to the 2 parts of the problem. And your language shows you’re not yet able to think calmly and substantially about the topic.

I am not telling women to cover up. I am proposing that they ask themselves why are they showing so much of themselves…is it an act of charity, or an act of vanity, indifference, rebellion, or vanity?

Your ad hom about my language is irrelevant and avoids my point. You tell me I missed something but all you’ve done is repeat the same excuses for telling people what to wear and, to an extent, believing that we are to be judged by something as superficial as our appearances.

Sorry but it’s you who missed something. For the second time, I state that one can never, never tell what a person is thinking if you base it solely on what they wear.

You sound like as if women who dress the way they do for the heck of it don’t exist. Well here’s a newsflash: they do. They’re real. In fact, guys do it too. Some like looking like gangsters, others like suits. I for one am partial to wearing hoodies and cargoes.

What are our reasons? Nothing. We just want to. End of story. We may like what we see in the mirror but that doesn’t mean we want or care about what other people think.

And above, I am also asking men why they look/lust?

Because we have loose hormones. I should know I deal with them just as much as any guy. However, you won’t see me blaming my weaknesses on other people. I have only myself and the animal within to blame. Nobody, and I mean nobody, should bear the burden of that weakness. Depending on others not to tempt us is only going to invite moral laziness.

I am trying to show that this problem is a problem shared by people of the body of Christ; each has moral responsibilities.

Such mentality is nothing more than the worst of collectivism trying disguise itself as Catholic moral authority. We have a responsibility for ourselves first. Our responsibility for others only results from the former, not the other way around.

Again, it’s like in my mayor scenario. People wouldn’t have the need to bolt their doors with five locks, buy security cameras, and train guard Dobermans if everyone would actually deal with what they’re hiding from.

To call it a chicken-or-egg problem, as someone else stated, is ridiculous. The obvious is staring at us right in the face yet we refuse to face it and account for our weaknesses.

I am not judging…

Yes you are or would you like me to quote a dictionary? Judging involves an evaluation and your very posts do just that. You immediately presume some ill-intent whenever you see women dress in they very way that you refuse to immune yourself against.

 

[white_sheep]

@ #3

Sorry but a man should, well, man up and take control of his senses. Back in high school, would you have suggested I wear A-crowd clothes as not to incite bullies to pick on me or wouldn’t it be better to tell those bullies to lay off and respect me regardless of what I look like on the outside?

The same applies to women and the religious folks who think they dress “immodestly”.

One of my buddies told me the other day he is trying to quit smoking. I told him that what he needs to do is to light a cigarette and hold it in his lips until it burns out without smoking it. That’s how a real man quits smoking!

Of course I was just joking.

 

[vera_dicere]

Calm down. You’re way too quick to throw down the easy, handy ‘misogynistic’ card. Like throwing down the racist card right out of the box.

Just take a look around you. The hugely disproportionate treatment of women as sex objects is all around you. The balance is shifting ever so slightly.

It’s also well known that men tend to be more prone to visual temptations, etc. etc.

I knew we’d have an early, out of the box, user of the word misogynistic.

This doesn’t in the slightest take away the responsibility of a man to master himself. Not a bit. But get real. A woman showing cleavage in Holy Mass is her own act of immodesty.

I am calm. I’m just passionate.

Women are treated as sex objects because of teh lusts of men. Men being more visual? So what? Again, harden up and control your own desires. If a man knows they are “visual” then they know to work on that area. Or perhaps we could do what the extermists Muslims do about their men being so visual…

As for the woman with clevage in Mass? Breasts were never meant to be a sexual object, in some cultures they aren’t and women walk around bare chested all day. Breasts are meant to nourish baby, not appease some Fraudian desire in men who can’t control themselves.

Granted, the proper respect should be shown for the Mass from men and women. There are plenty of immodestly dressed men wandering around in their skinny jeans and tight tops.

Modesty isn’t just about women covering up, its a whole concept of chaste living, demanded of men and women, its time people stopped focussing on just women being the problem. There are plenty of perverts out there, and even being modestly dressed wont’ stop them.

The whole thing just starts to reak of that argument “if a woman gets raped its her fault for wearing such a short skirt”.

Men are called to be the heads of spiritual families, not cry babies who can’t control their baser instincts.

 

[Edward_H]

Lumen Gentium reminded us, among many other things, that the bar is much higher on our, the lay’s, responsibility for the salvation of all souls.

Some Protestants (and increasingly many Catholics) have a adopted a “me and Jesus” approach to living our Christian life…“I got my salvation, you get yours.”

Coupled with this low-shooting form of apostolate is the insidious “don’t judge” approach, which completely confuses people, and causes even more distance between the people of God. It causes hesitation, fences, territory and all sorts of opportunity for pride.

With respect to modesty…and other virtues, we can adopt a range of stances

• someone else’s behavior is

• of no concern for me
• of some concern for me
• of great concern for me

I think we’ve gotten lazy and have fallen into the trap of creating distance between members of the body of Christ.

Doing otherwise would not be “judging”…instead this approach realizes that how we live, the choices we make, what we do can have salvific influences on others.

This is not abdicating responsibility for self-mastery. Far from it. It’s encouraging self-mastery.

We need to be very concerned about our own soul, and the souls of others.

Someone above was very frank and explained why she does what she does sometimes. Explaining this was itself an act of charity and it took courage to do, but her act can help us understand the dynamism at play in this topic of modesty.

My take is we need to be very concerned about the souls of others…stopping well short of “judging”, but going far beyond the “me and Jesus” approach.

A saint once said “out of one hundred souls, we need to be concerned with one hundred of them”.

 

[Walking_Home]

Edward H:

You’ve missed my whole post dedicated to the 2 parts of the problem. And your language shows you’re not yet able to think calmly and substantially about the topic.

Edward H:

I am not telling women to cover up. I am proposing that they ask themselves why are they showing so much of themselves…is it an act of charity, or an act of vanity, indifference, rebellion, or vanity?

Your ad hom about my language is irrelevant and avoids my point. You tell me I missed something but all you’ve done is repeat the same excuses for telling people what to wear and, to an extent, believing that we are to be judged by something as superficial as our appearances.

Sorry but it’s you who missed something. For the second time, I state that one can never, never tell what a person is thinking if you base it solely on what they wear.

You sound like as if women who dress the way they do for the heck of it don’t exist. Well here’s a newsflash: they do. They’re real. In fact, guys do it too. Some like looking like gangsters, others like suits. I for one am partial to wearing hoodies and cargoes.

What are our reasons? Nothing. We just want to. End of story. We may like what we see in the mirror but that doesn’t mean we want or care about what other people think.
Edward H:

And above, I am also asking men why they look/lust?

Because we have loose hormones. I should know I deal with them just as much as any guy. However, you won’t see me blaming my weaknesses on other people. I have only myself and the animal within to blame. Nobody, and I mean nobody, should bear the burden of that weakness. Depending on others not to tempt us is only going to invite moral laziness.
Edward H:

I am trying to show that this problem is a problem shared by people of the body of Christ; each has moral responsibilities.

Such mentality is nothing more than the worst of collectivism trying disguise itself as Catholic moral authority. We have a responsibility for ourselves first. Our responsibility for others only results from the former, not the other way around.

Again, it’s like in my mayor scenario. People wouldn’t have the need to bolt their doors with five locks, buy security cameras, and train guard Dobermans if everyone would actually deal with what they’re hiding from.

To call it a chicken-or-egg problem, as someone else stated, is ridiculous. The obvious is staring at us right in the face yet we refuse to face it and account for our weaknesses.
Edward H:

I am not judging…

Yes you are or would you like me to quote a dictionary? Judging involves an evaluation and your very posts do just that. You immediately presume some ill-intent whenever you see women dress in they very way that you refuse to immune yourself against.

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Again ----I applaud you Lost Wanderer — in my book you are a man of character. Working on building strong moral fiber.

As opposed to those who have given a home in their minds to ill thoughts/lust /lechery/sleaze— and instead of doing something about it --have become morally lazy. But to make themselves feel “virtuous” —they project their sickness onto women – to hold women accountable.

 

[Edward_H]

Yes you are or would you like me to quote a dictionary? Judging involves an evaluation and your very posts do just that. You immediately presume some ill-intent whenever you see women dress in they very way that you refuse to immune yourself against.

You have a considerable gap in your understanding of what judging is and is not, biblically and otherwise.

There is judging mentioned in the Bible, pertaining to ones final disposition.

There is also evaluation of others.

There is also evaluation of self.

What you apparently have missed from my posts above is a consistent series of mere questions to consider…both for men and women.

I haven’t judged anyone on the first or second forms of judgement I have just laid out. My questions are intended to deepen the discussion around the 3rd area of judgement. Self-examination. Such questions allow one to do their own evaluation as to their own acts.

You consistently seem content to skip across the wave tops, applauding.

Peace

 

[RainbowNight]

See
marysaggies.blogspot.com/2011/06/top-10-reasons-women-should-dress.html

Top 100 reasons men should dress modesty, THINK… You can come up with many :d

 

[Walking_Home]

You have a considerable gap in your understanding of what judging is and is not, biblically and otherwise.

There is judging mentioned in the Bible, pertaining to ones final disposition.

There is also evaluation of others.

There is also evaluation of self.

What you apparently have missed from my posts above is a consistent series of mere questions to consider…both for men and women.

I haven’t judged anyone on the first or second forms of judgement I have just laid out. My questions are intended to deepen the discussion around the 3rd area of judgement. Self-examination. Such questions allow one to do their own evaluation as to their own acts.

You consistently seem content to skip across the wave tops, applauding.

Peace

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Seem to be – you masquerade your pride as a virtue. Making yourself “more Catholic” than the Church.

 

[Edward_H]

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Seem to be – you masquerade your pride as a virtue. Making yourself “more Catholic” than the Church.

But your “evaluation” here…and the too many other ones above aren’t themselves examples of ‘judging’ or instances of ‘overflowing with pride’, are they?

We’re learning lots about you.

 

[Muze]

I’m trying to recall any evidence that says that Mary dressed modestly

 

[Edward_H]

I’m trying to recall any evidence that says that Mary dressed modestly

Little to go on. But then we don’t know how St Joseph was dressed. We know he was a “just man.”

But…I think it would be safe to assume she dressed appropriate to her state in life, given the total absence of any mention of her dress. Perhaps, contrast between how Mary the Mother of Jesus was referred to and how Mary Magdalene was described.

 

[Walking_Home]

All these modesty threads have started to get me paranoid . I went to a dinner tonight with some people from my parish and the priest was there. I started worrying during the dinner if my shirt was too low cut or pants too tight.

I went with my husband and like to look nice. My husband prefers that I dress sexy. I have toned things done but I don’t want to dress like I am 80 years old. I work hard to have a nice body and want to look good.

I do make sure that I dress more conservatively for mass but I don’t want to dress that way all the time.

---

That is what the “Modesty Police” does to women. Do Not let them get to you – or you will end up paranoid. Again — do Not let any “self professed arbiter of modesty” — mess with your mind.

To continue:

You may find the following helpful. It is from Consoling the Heart of Jesus by Br. Michael Gaitley, MIC. This book is endorsed by EWTN’s Fr. Mitch Pacwa and Fr. Groeschel.

pg. 244

“Sometimes, instead of getting people to run after lesser goods, the bad spirit tries to get them running after true goods in an extreme way . His Intention in playing this version of his trick is to eventually leave his victims feeling tired and discouraged. After all, people can only live life to the extreme for so long.”

You see – even a “good intention” is used by the Satan to to cause unrest—for that is what Satan wants. And Satan will use any instrument to push his agenda — even people who “think” they “are doing good” —but what they are actually doing is — pushing people further away from peace and closer and closer to the edge.

Think of what happened to Luther. He developed scrupulosity–which contributed to his downfall.

 

[hunter123]

There is nothing wrong with a women choosing to dress modestly, but who defines what that is? If your goal is to not arouse men how can you be sure what arouses them. Different things arouse different men. Some men are aroused by women in skirts, some by a womens voice, or perfume. Some have fetishes for earlobes, or feet, will you wear sandals? LOL Do you get my point?