Top 10 reasons women should dress modestly

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Hi to all,

To add to my post above, I wanted to clarify that there are some reasons for modesty that go beyond provocation of men; for one thing we avoid causing body image problems for other women, and we avoid vanity in general. I didn’t mean to be too limiting in giving my reasons for modesty. But the avoidance of sexual provocation is probably the main one.

God Bless,
Joan
 
Hi to all,

To add to my post above, I wanted to clarify that there are some reasons for modesty that go beyond provocation of men; for one thing we avoid causing body image problems for other women, and we avoid vanity in general. I didn’t mean to be too limiting in giving my reasons for modesty. But the avoidance of sexual provocation is probably the main one.

God Bless,
Joan

“Body image problems for other women”-- and “Vanity”. Might as well get appliance cardboard boxes–cut a hole for the head and 2 for the arms —and have women wear it. That way every woman will look the same and no “body image problems/vanity”.
 
[/QOUTE]
On the other hand, going with older written standards (perhaps the statements of past popes or spiritual leaders) has the tendency to make us pointlessly strict. Covering elbows and knees for instance. Would that do any real good in promoting purity for anyone? I doubt it. That’s why the reactions of current-day men are important, and we should get a good handle on them. Then we can answer these questions intelligently.

God Bless,
Joan

Dear Joan,

Cordial greetings, dear sister, and thankyou for your excellent post above.

Whist I would concur with and endorse nearly all of your remarks, I must beg to differ with your satement that “older written standards (perhaps the statements of past popes or spiritual leaders) has tendency to make us pointlessly strict”. Surely, this is the very antidote that is required in an age of unprecedented moral laxity such as our own? Indeed, such standards may have a rather sobering effect upon those neo-orthodox Catholics who have adopted hook, line and sinker the immodest fashions and styles of our morally degenerate world. After all, as this current thread evinces beyond any doubt, there has been an almost complete loss of the moral sense among some of the faithful, with the very lamentable result that many, seemingly, no longer even have an instinct for modesty.

My point is that the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of worldly assimilation of our amoral culture and its “anything goes” relativistic mindset - choice of shameful voluptuous vesture being just one of many examples of this. The urgent need of the hour is surely to, inter alia, counteract this godless trend by some sound and sober standards from the pre-Vatican II Church, which may just facilitate the godly effort of returning the contemporary Church to the path of virtue and a authentic traditional Catholicism. True, that will not suffice per se, but it is at least a jolly good place to begin. Unfortunately, owing to very poor catechesis and the influence of ‘Catholicism Lite’, many of our brethren have little or no knowledge at all of the austere and no-nonsense practice of religious faith in the pre-Vatican II period. Consequently, there has been, not surprisingly, a deplorable loss of the sensus fidelium within the modern Church. Anything which helps bring us to our senses and alert us to our present plight, is surely to be warmly welcomed.

The faithful need think to a great deal more than they do about sanctity and separation from the world and living up to the arduous and unpopular demands of our most holy religion. We are all called to the pursuit of holiness and to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect, so can we really be “pointlessly strict”, Joan, given that the entire course of this life is a state of probation?

God bless and thankyou again for your insightful contribution.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Good Lord! If we keep going down this path we’ll end up like the Muslims with Burkas! Muslim men have zero self control, but sure like to control their women. I think we all need to look at ourselves a bit more.

👍👍
 

“Body image problems for other women”-- and “Vanity”. Might as well get appliance cardboard boxes–cut a hole for the head and 2 for the arms —and have women wear it. That way every woman will look the same and no “body image problems/vanity”.
Dear Walking_Home,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

We are called to the pursuit of holiness which entails living a godly, righteous and sober life in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation. This will necessarily mean that we avoid pandering to vantiy or wearing seductive style clothing, for that is being conformed to the godless the world, which is strictly forbidden by our religion: “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world passes away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides for ever” (I John 2: 15-17). Women professing godliness need to cultivate a meek and quiet spirit and be zealous in good works, not be engrossed in adorning the body. Reverent and chaste behaviour and submission to their husbands ought to be their primary goal.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Women need only one good reason to dress modestly…

To be a lady in the same fashion as Our Lady
 
[/QOUTE]
On the other hand, going with older written standards (perhaps the statements of past popes or spiritual leaders) has the tendency to make us pointlessly strict. Covering elbows and knees for instance. Would that do any real good in promoting purity for anyone? I doubt it. That’s why the reactions of current-day men are important, and we should get a good handle on them. Then we can answer these questions intelligently.

God Bless,
Joan
Dear Joan,

Cordial greetings, dear sister, and thankyou for your excellent post above.

Whist I would concur with and endorse nearly all of your remarks, I must beg to differ with your satement that “older written standards (perhaps the statements of past popes or spiritual leaders) has tendency to make us pointlessly strict”. Surely, this is the very antidote that is required in an age of unprecedented moral laxity such as our own? Indeed, such standards may have a rather sobering effect upon those neo-orthodox Catholics who have adopted hook, line and sinker the immodest fashions and styles of our morally degenerate world. After all, as this current thread evinces beyond any doubt, there has been an almost complete loss of the moral sense among some of the faithful, with the very lamentable result that many, seemingly, no longer even have an instinct for modesty.

My point is that the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of worldly assimilation of our amoral culture and its “anything goes” relativistic mindset - choice of shameful voluptuous vesture being just one of many examples of this. The urgent need of the hour is surely to, inter alia, counteract this godless trend by some sound and sober standards from the pre-Vatican II Church, which may just facilitate the godly effort of returning the contemporary Church to the path of virtue and a authentic traditional Catholicism. True, that will not suffice per se, but it is at least a jolly good place to begin. Unfortunately, owing to very poor catechesis and the influence of ‘Catholicism Lite’, many of our brethren have little or no knowledge at all of the austere and no-nonsense practice of religious faith in the pre-Vatican II period. Consequently, there has been, not surprisingly, a deplorable loss of the sensus fidelium within the modern Church. Anything which helps bring us to our senses and alert us to our present plight, is surely to be warmly welcomed.

The faithful need think to a great deal more than they do about sanctity and separation from the world and living up to the arduous and unpopular demands of our most holy religion. We are all called to the pursuit of holiness and to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect, so can we really be “pointlessly strict”, Joan, given that the entire course of this life is a state of probation?

God bless and thankyou again for your insightful contribution.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax​

You’ve been fed a load of bunk. I come from a long line of Catholics—yes–pre–Vat II Catholics. And am old enough to have known them and many more. This “austere” pre-
Vat II Catholicism --did not exists. Pre-VII Catholics went to dances and danced— listened to music— dressed in the fashion of the time—and “gasp” – drank alcoholic beverages. The Pre-Vat II “austere” were the protestants.

What I see happening with the modern day “Traditionalists” --is the merging of protestant “austerity” with Catholicism.
 
Women need only one good reason to dress modestly…

To be a lady in the same fashion as Our Lady
Dear wynnejj,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for that.

A very hearty Amen.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
That’s fine, YOU can think miniskirts and “short” shorts (what you consider short may not be what I consider short) are not decent. Maybe that’s how you were brought up. Maybe you live in a colder, more conservative part of the world. But where I live, in my world, the basic, average length miniskirts and shorts are completely normal and perfectly decent if worn in the right time/place.

My point is, as much as YOU can think they’re evil, you have to realize that this is your opinion and not something that was condemned by the Church. And so it’s actually very out of line for you to hold others accountable for something that is merely your opinion and not backed up by the Church.

Ohhhhh Goooood grief… sigh

Once again, please please please please prove to me that a mini skirt, shorts, and bikinis are immodest. And please read my dozens of other posts where I explain over and over again why they are not. Your side has yet to refute those posts and even attempt to explain to me why my points are void and why those articles of clothing ARE immodest according to the CC.

Please see above.
The Catholic Church does not have a universial standard for modesty in dress, so I do have to agree with you on that one. But still there should always be standards that one must hold.

From the CCC:
2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.
2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing.** It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.**
From the Bible:
1 Corinthians 3:16,17
“Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.”
While modesty does INDEED differ from culture to culture, modesty in dress should still protect the dignity of the person, something that miniskirts and others forms of clothing similar DO NOT!

And as you said the human body is a beautiful creation of God, but that beautiful gift is reserved to be seen ONLY by a husband or wife, not by the entire public.

From Sacra Propediem, 1921
“One can not sufficiently deplore the blindness of so many women of every age and station. Made foolish by a desire to please,** they do not see to what degree the indecency of their clothing shocks every honest man and offends God.** Most of them would formerly have blushed for such apparel as for a grave fault against Christian modesty. Now it does not suffice to exhibit themselves on public thoroughfares; they do not fear to cross the threshold of churches, to assist at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and even to bear the seducing food of shameful passions to the Eucharistic Table, where one receives the Heavenly Author of Purity.”
For those who say clothing doesn’t offend God. Pope Benedict XV sure thought different. One must not rely soley on what the world considers what is modest but on what would God deem be modesty in dress.

Now many of you will say that all of this is simply superficial but it really is not. Jason Evert refers to modesty as showing true reverence to your body for it is holy. I am not judging anyone but rather hoping to show anyone who is willing to listen that one should always have a certain standard that is pleasing to God.
 

“Body image problems for other women”-- and “Vanity”. Might as well get appliance cardboard boxes–cut a hole for the head and 2 for the arms —and have women wear it. That way every woman will look the same and no “body image problems/vanity”.
Hi Walking,

It’s a matter of balance. Yes, some women are always going to envy each others’ looks, as men will always be lustfully attracted to women. We can still avoid exacerbating these problems. Modesty will do this.

In the same way, people generally dress according to income, and some envy takes palce as people do this. Christian modesty does not say we all need to dress as if we were poor, but it does discourage using clothes to show off and make the problem of envy worse.

God Bless,
Joan
 
The Catholic Church does not have a universial standard for modesty in dress, so I do have to agree with you on that one. But still there should always be standards that one must hold.

From the CCC:

From the Bible:

While modesty does INDEED differ from culture to culture, modesty in dress should still protect the dignity of the person, something that miniskirts and others forms of clothing similar DO NOT!

And as you said the human body is a beautiful creation of God, but that beautiful gift is reserved to be seen ONLY by a husband or wife, not by the entire public.

From Sacra Propediem, 1921

For those who say clothing doesn’t offend God. Pope Benedict XV sure thought different. One must not rely soley on what the world considers what is modest but on what would God deem be modesty in dress.

Now many of you will say that all of this is simply superficial but it really is not. Jason Evert refers to modesty as showing true reverence to your body for it is holy. I am not judging anyone but rather hoping to show anyone who is willing to listen that one should always have a certain standard that is pleasing to God.
Dear Art,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly good post, dear friend.

If my memory serves me well, does not Catholic Answers have a sort a ‘Purity Club’ link for youth and does not Mr.Evert write articles for that? Seem to remember that they address questions regarding modest attire and whether or not a mini-skirt and bikini is acceptable, and I am almost next to certain that, by implication, they answer those questions in the negative. If that is the case, then it at least shows that it is not a few oddballs that maintain that these seductive style garments are unseemly and inappropriate for yoing women professing godliness.

Perhaps you can enlighten us, Art. Thankyou

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Hi Walking,

It’s a matter of balance. Yes, some women are always going to envy each others’ looks, as men will always be lustfully attracted to women. We can still avoid exacerbating these problems. Modesty will do this.

In the same way, people generally dress according to income, and some envy takes palce as people do this. Christian modesty does not say we all need to dress as if we were poor, but it does discourage using clothes to show off and make the problem of envy worse.

God Bless,
Joan

I for one do not possess this ability to read a persons interior disposition–to say they are showing off. Was this “ability”–“special knowledge” --something given out at your church.
 
Dear Joan,

Cordial greetings, dear sister, and thankyou for your excellent post above.

Whist I would concur with and endorse nearly all of your remarks, I must beg to differ with your satement that “older written standards (perhaps the statements of past popes or spiritual leaders) has tendency to make us pointlessly strict”. Surely, this is the very antidote that is required in an age of unprecedented moral laxity such as our own…

The urgent need of the hour is surely to, inter alia, counteract this godless trend by some sound and sober standards from the pre-Vatican II Church, which may just facilitate the godly effort of returning the contemporary Church to the path of virtue and a authentic traditional Catholicism. True, that will not suffice per se, but it is at least a jolly good place to begin… Anything which helps bring us to our senses and alert us to our present plight, is surely to be warmly welcomed.

The faithful need think to a great deal more than they do about sanctity and separation from the world and living up to the arduous and unpopular demands of our most holy religion. We are all called to the pursuit of holiness and to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect, so can we really be “pointlessly strict”, Joan, given that the entire course of this life is a state of probation?

God bless and thankyou again for your insightful contribution.
Good Afternoon Portrait

I’ve been thinking about modesty quite a bit this morning, thanks to having made my post earlier on. I would see the best way to approach it is to have two possible avenues available for the faithful Catholic lady: She can dress more according to conventional standards, simply being careful to understand and avoid what might reasonably be provocative (not simply trying to avoid what will bring on social disapproval).

Another possibility for those who choose it would be to dress in a more modest manner than is strictly required, as a kind of witness. Those who choose to dress in a way that is unusually feminine or that covers extra body areas (knees for instance) should not be seen as doing something pointless or silly, any more than a priest in a cassock or a nun in a full, hair-and-ankles covering habit. They should be respected as doing something productive and good. The pitfall to avoid, of course, would be for these women to avoid any sort of arrogance or tendency to see themselves as “first class”, but to do this as a free act and in simplicity of heart, an effort to identify more fully with Our Lady.

The problem with trying to impose the second standard universally would be that it would make too many women feel confused, angry, possibly shamed and generally stressed with respect to observing their faith. We have not gone in that direction for many decades, so to abruptly try to change things would do far more harm than good. It would also cause logistical problems with sports and swimming, and could even be seen as a discouragment of these activities for women.

God Bless,
Joan
 
Good Afternoon Portrait

I’ve been thinking about modesty quite a bit this morning, thanks to having made my post earlier on. I would see the best way to approach it is to have two possible avenues available for the faithful Catholic lady: She can dress more according to conventional standards, simply being careful to understand and avoid what might reasonably be provocative (not simply trying to avoid what will bring on social disapproval).

Another possibility for those who choose it would be to dress in a more modest manner than is strictly required, as a kind of witness. Those who choose to dress in a way that is unusually feminine or that covers extra body areas (knees for instance) should not be seen as doing something pointless or silly, any more than a priest in a cassock or a nun in a full, hair-and-ankles covering habit. They should be respected as doing something productive and good. The pitfall to avoid, of course, would be for these women to avoid any sort of arrogance or tendency to see themselves as “first class”, but to do this as a free act and in simplicity of heart, an effort to identify more fully with Our Lady.

The problem with trying to impose the second standard universally would be that it would make too many women feel confused, angry, possibly shamed and generally stressed with respect to observing their faith. We have not gone in that direction for many decades, so to abruptly try to change things would do far more harm than good. It would also cause logistical problems with sports and swimming, and could even be seen as a discouragment of these activities for women.

God Bless,
Joan
Dear Joan,

Hello again and thankyou for your response above.

Again I concur with what you say, dear sister. However, in veiw of the desperate plight of contemporary Catholicism, I firmly believe that there needs to be a complete re-appraisal or rethink about the sort of attire that Catholics, especially women, choose to wear. It needs to asked whether or not such clothing passes muster with what St. Paul’s says is “modest and seemly apparel”. If, after it has been weighed in the balances and found wanting, it ought to be discarded forthwith as not meeting with Catholic standards of decency consonant with Sacred Tradition throughout the ages.

Yes, I think we do need to think the unthinkable about this whole issue of decent apparel and that will not be a painless task for many neo-Catholics who have opted to walk hand in hand with the world by adopting its indecorous fashions. Nevertheless, it must done if we are to provide an alternative Christian counter-culture and make the Church once again a force to be reckoned with in our times. That is the burden of my heart, not only concerning this issue, but with many other issues also, where Catholics have befouled their souls with the impurities of this godless world. After all, we Christians are supposed to be the moral disinfectant of the world halting the spread of corruption and licentiousness, not partaking in it. This upheaval may well entail a radical rethink on such things as sports wear etc., so be it, where modesty and sportwear conflict, modesty must prevail. Things do not necessarily have to change ‘abruptly’, but they must needs change gradually so that we return to a point where the faithful recover their instinctive sense of modesty and a wholesome sensitivity to sin.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Dear severus68,

Hello again.

You have errected a straw man since no one here is interpreting the passage in I Pet. 3: 7 in some ‘literalistic’ or unsound sense and neither is the exegete, H. Willmering S.J., in A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture.. In any event a sound rule of biblical exegesis is: when the literal sense makes good sense be careful not to make it nonsense.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
I am not making nonsense of anything , I was quoting from the Catechism.
 
Debora123;8023637:
Yes, I’ve been over this many times…

Because the body is not evil or dirty. Nakedness is not evil or dirty. The human mind, however, IS (or can be).

So, this imaginary “standard of Christ” you all speak of. I’ve asked this a million times but no one ever tells me…

The reason why no one ever answers me is because there is no set standard.

The catechism states that modesty varies depending on cultural norms…

But first, I have a question for you. Do you think it is immodest to expose one’s ankles? Because at one point in time, showing an ankle was disapproved at first and was a source of arousal for men. …But it was later seen as normative…

Our religion, the Catholic religion, has no universal standard of modesty…
Hi Debra,
I do believe you quoted Fatima not Debora and wrongly. To give you the benefit of the doubt, I asked you for the link.

So really, is a woman to go to a man and ask “Does my outfit incite lust in you? If it does, please forgive my immodesty and causing you to sin. I will change at once.”
 
Dear Walking_Home,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

We are called to the pursuit of holiness which entails living a godly, righteous and sober life in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation. This will necessarily mean that we avoid pandering to vantiy or wearing seductive style clothing, for that is being conformed to the godless the world, which is strictly forbidden by our religion: “Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world passes away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides for ever” (I John 2: 15-17). Women professing godliness need to cultivate a meek and quiet spirit and be zealous in good works, not be engrossed in adorning the body. Reverent and chaste behaviour and submission to their husbands ought to be their primary goal.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
Portrait,

So you think a woman should walk in a sackcloth type dress, up to the neck, down to the ankles and down to the wrists, wear no jewelry, should always lower her eyes in the , presence of a man, be submissive to her husband? If a woman is not married, who is she to submit to please or is it that a woman must always submit to a man?

To me such posts show fear and insecurity and a desire to control.
 
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