Top 5 injustices in need of remedy:

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Potable freshwater may not be a problem right now, but can easily become a severe issue in the future if nothing is done proactively to ensure that people the world over have continued access to drinking water.
agree. potable freshwater is good temporary solution. water wells are one option. companies that go lay claim to land in third world places and block the good flowing water for their own profit…this big problem. so I think wells. water wells are a good option for sustainable and continued drinking water.
 
1.) Islamic Law in Arabic lands
2.) terrorism
3.) nation building
4.) ghetto style pop-culture
5.) Lesbian school teachers
2 Chronicles 7:14 ASV
if my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
 
Somewhere on the list should be wiping out most life on earth thru our continuing to engage in serious environmental harms that go on harming well into the future (intergenerational injustice) – see:
I’d put that somewhere after abortion, which is a pre-meditated act of killing with the intention of killing, while harming and killing thru environmental harms is more like an unjust by-product of our greed, profligacy, sloth, arrogance, disrespect/disregard for science and Church teachings, thoughtlessness, and/or lack of concern about others and their lives.

So all those not engaged in having abortions (and they too after refraining from abortion), should seriously consider looking down the list to see if they might have other areas to reduce their injustices, including contributing to the harming & killing others well into the future thru their environmental harms today.
 
Somewhere on the list should be wiping out most life on earth thru our continuing to engage in serious environmental harms that go on harming well into the future (intergenerational injustice) – see:
I’d put that somewhere after abortion, which is a pre-meditated act of killing with the intention of killing, while harming and killing thru environmental harms is more like an unjust by-product of our greed, profligacy, sloth, arrogance, disrespect/disregard for science and Church teachings, thoughtlessness, and/or lack of concern about others and their lives.

So all those not engaged in having abortions (and they too after refraining from abortion), should seriously consider looking down the list to see if they might have other areas to reduce their injustices, including contributing to the harming & killing others well into the future thru their environmental harms today.
Somehow that’s too abstract and detached from personal sin. Receiving Christ unworthily in Holy Communion is a divide by zero level of injustice.
 
Somehow that’s too abstract and detached from personal sin. Receiving Christ unworthily in Holy Communion is a divide by zero level of injustice.
I don’t think it’s OK for us to wipe out most life on earth due to us not really knowing who our specific victims are or will be out of the perhaps billions being harmed today and well into the future for many millennia by our actions today, most of whom aren’t even born yet.

However, God knows the people who are and will be suffering from the effects of our local pollution, acid rain, stratospheric ozone depletion, global warming, dead zones in water bodies, ocean acidification, resource depletion, etc. And he knows who is causing these and who is causing them more.

Cain told God he knew nothing about his brother, but I think God actually did know about Cain’s involvement in Abel’s death. And he knows what we are up to, as well.

Whether these environmental harms are sins, venial or mortal, I don’t know. I’m not a moral theologian. And yes they do seem very diffuse, with many people causing them and many “nameless-to-us” people suffering from them, so as to seem nothing to us personally, a drop in the ocean of harms. My conscience, however, tells me these harms are not only wrong, but also an injustice…that the ones suffering most from the harms are the ones who have benefitted least or will be benefitting least in centuries or millennia to come from the extravagant, profligate & wasteful lifestyles of the people today causing the harms. And I personally think this is an important enough injustice – in the top 5 – to warrant a remedy, if we value life.

Are the remedies easy? It seems daunting, which I think is why people shy away from even considering they may have a role in the problems or that there are any such problems. There is no silver bullet, and there is not a whole lot the government or charitable orgs can do to solve it on their own – tho they also have a role. Mitigation of these serious environmental harms require, as JPII said in 1990, everyone’s participation.

However, what I’ve found is that with God’s gracious help it is a light cross to bear, even a weightless and uplifting cross. To my great surprise, for the most part it also saves money – immediately for some measures, short-term for others, and long-term for others – and also improves one’s health. Not everyone can do everything on the 1000+ item list of mitigation measures, but they can do 1 thing, or maybe 10 or 20 things. It’s worth turning around, admitting we are causing problems and injustices, and taking those first small baby steps. Sort of a 20+ small (some large) step program spanning decades, the rest of our lives. And God is there to help us up when we stumble.

Is life worth saving? Sometimes I wonder, since so many are against doing so 🙂 But then the issue of injustice wakes me up and makes me realize, yes, we must do everything to save lives, esp of the innocent, or rather, to reduce our contributions that are harming and killing them.

If this can’t be fit in the top five, then I think we need a longer list.
 
I don’t think it’s OK for us to wipe out most life on earth due to us not really knowing who our specific victims are or will be out of the perhaps billions being harmed today and well into the future for many millennia by our actions today, most of whom aren’t even born yet.

However, God knows the people who are and will be suffering from the effects of our local pollution, acid rain, stratospheric ozone depletion, global warming, dead zones in water bodies, ocean acidification, resource depletion, etc. And he knows who is causing these and who is causing them more.

Cain told God he knew nothing about his brother, but I think God actually did know about Cain’s involvement in Abel’s death. And he knows what we are up to, as well.

Whether these environmental harms are sins, venial or mortal, I don’t know. I’m not a moral theologian. And yes they do seem very diffuse, with many people causing them and many “nameless-to-us” people suffering from them, so as to seem nothing to us personally, a drop in the ocean of harms. My conscience, however, tells me these harms are not only wrong, but also an injustice…that the ones suffering most from the harms are the ones who have benefitted least or will be benefitting least in centuries or millennia to come from the extravagant, profligate & wasteful lifestyles of the people today causing the harms. And I personally think this is an important enough injustice – in the top 5 – to warrant a remedy, if we value life.

Are the remedies easy? It seems daunting, which I think is why people shy away from even considering they may have a role in the problems or that there are any such problems. There is no silver bullet, and there is not a whole lot the government or charitable orgs can do to solve it on their own – tho they also have a role. Mitigation of these serious environmental harms require, as JPII said in 1990, everyone’s participation.

However, what I’ve found is that with God’s gracious help it is a light cross to bear, even a weightless and uplifting cross. To my great surprise, for the most part it also saves money – immediately for some measures, short-term for others, and long-term for others – and also improves one’s health. Not everyone can do everything on the 1000+ item list of mitigation measures, but they can do 1 thing, or maybe 10 or 20 things. It’s worth turning around, admitting we are causing problems and injustices, and taking those first small baby steps. Sort of a 20+ small (some large) step program spanning decades, the rest of our lives. And God is there to help us up when we stumble.

Is life worth saving? Sometimes I wonder, since so many are against doing so 🙂 But then the issue of injustice wakes me up and makes me realize, yes, we must do everything to save lives, esp of the innocent, or rather, to reduce our contributions that are harming and killing them.

If this can’t be fit in the top five, then I think we need a longer list.
Don’t worry. The sky isn’t going to fall on us. God won’t leave us to starve.

He’s more worried about the “interior projects” that you’re either facing up to or not facing up to than he is with neo-Malthusian prophecies.
 
It’s really not. Thats down to personal choice not injustice.
:banghead:

Catholics going to Hell because they were not taught the actual Catholic faith is an injustice to those Catholic and it is a greater injustice than even abortion. Babies killed by abortion go to Heaven for eternity. Catholics who die in a state of sin because some priest, nun, bishop, or parent told them it is not a sin to engage in abortion, homosexuality, sex outside of marriage, etc., will go to Hell for eternity. It is evil for a baby to lose its live in its mother’s womb. Is it not also evil for a person to go to Hell because they were taught a water down faith? Many Catholics have lost their souls due to what the false teachings they were taught in Church and because of they didn’t hear the actual teachings of Christ in Church. Catholics need the true teachings of Jesus Christ that is held by the Catholic Church but many many Catholics in the United States have not received it.

Ran
 
Don’t worry. The sky isn’t going to fall on us. God won’t leave us to starve.

He’s more worried about the “interior projects” that you’re either facing up to or not facing up to than he is with neo-Malthusian prophecies.
In my books killing innocent people is wrong. Others may interpret the Church, Bible, and Ten Commandments differently. It should be somewhere on the list.
 
:banghead:

Catholics going to Hell because they were not taught the actual Catholic faith is an injustice to those Catholic and it is a greater injustice than even abortion. Babies killed by abortion go to Heaven for eternity. Catholics who die in a state of sin because some priest, nun, bishop, or parent told them it is not a sin to engage in abortion, homosexuality, sex outside of marriage, etc., will go to Hell for eternity…
And I would add to that Catholics must be taught that “destruction of the earth” (thereby harming and killing people and others of God’s creation) could also land one in Hell, with those who failed to teach it first in line:

"The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth" Revelations 11:18

Luckily our new Pope Francis has been calling on us to protect creation; but is anyone listening.

And I’m wondering what the ultimate result might be for Catholics who actively work to dissuade people from protecting creation.
 
In my books killing innocent people is wrong. Others may interpret the Church, Bible, and Ten Commandments differently. It should be somewhere on the list.
Over drama doesn’t promote comms.

Most moral issues re: the environment are PERSONAL issues…not “big government/global”

Too many people preach about the environment…and it’s often using dramatic language…when if they examined their own lives and attachments…they’d come up with 50 aspects of their lives that have moral and environment effects.

They own more than 1 car, individually.
They have more than 10 shirts, 5 pants, 3 pens.
They regularly throw food out in the garbage
They eat out more than once a month.
They more often than not don’t finish books they buy…
They get a phone every year or so
They have more than one computer.

So…I generally don’t talk to anyone about the environment who answer yes to any of these questions.

Why? Because they’re not serious about it…to the point of confronting THEMSELVES let alone wanting to micro control the lives of millions of others.
 
"The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth" Revelations 11:18
I sorry but I think it is silly to think the Book of Revelations was talking about the Green moment that is so in fashion these days.
Hugging a tree will not help forgive any of our sins. :tiphat:

Ran
 
Over drama doesn’t promote comms.

Most moral issues re: the environment are PERSONAL issues…not “big government/global”

Too many people preach about the environment…and it’s often using dramatic language…when if they examined their own lives and attachments…they’d come up with 50 aspects of their lives that have moral and environment effects…

So…I generally don’t talk to anyone about the environment who answer yes to any of these questions.

They own more than 1 car, individually.
They have more than 10 shirts, 5 pants, 3 pens.
They regularly throw food out in the garbage
They eat out more than once a month.
They more often than not don’t finish books they buy…
They get a phone every year or so
They have more than one computer.

Why? Because they’re not serious about it…to the point of confronting THEMSELVES let alone wanting to micro control the lives of millions of others.
Sorry, but I still believe harming and killing innocent people is wrong, whether I do something or nothing about it. So I’ll just continued to do my tiny part all the same.

And, yes, I’m still working on those 50 aspects of my life that can be improved. We’ve only reduced our greenhouse gas emissions and other harmful pollutants by about 60% below our 1990 levels, cost-effectively, saving many $1000s, without lowering our living standard, and there is a lot more we can and should do. That’s not counting that we’ve always made it a point to live within 1 or 2 miles of work and shops since 1973 so as to save resources for future generations.

If others don’t want to do their part, that’s their problem (and, of course, the problems of those who suffer from the harms). Tho I can see you are doing your part in not having more than 10 shirts, etc. So very good for you. It would be great if more would follow your good example, which seems to be somewhat better than mine.

I’ll also be praying for those who are harmed and those who insist on continuing their actions that contribute to those harms. And sorry if anyone here doesn’t like that, but I have every right to pray and also to do my part, and keep on improving with God’s great grace.

And part of “my part” is to tell others about the problems and harms, including spiritual harms. I was actually going to stop telling others some 5 years ago (which had been like banging my head against a brick wall of obstinant resistence for over 20 years), but that Sunday itself came the Mass reading that if your brother is sinning and you fail to inform him of the wrong, then that sin falls back on you. I think it was from the Old Testament, but not sure.

So back it was to the head-banging against a brick wall of resistence :banghead: 🙂
 
I sorry but I think it is silly to think the Book of Revelations was talking about the Green moment that is so in fashion these days…
No, it was talking about those engaged in destroying the earth – which I believe many in the various environmental movements are also concerned about, even if people think they are silly …

… which is weird since people 1000s of years ago were not really destroying the earth anywhere near the extent we collectively are doing. Which makes one really believe the Bible was written or inspired by God, since only God could have possibly known to what huge extent we are today now engaged in destroying the earth systems that support life.
 
Sorry, but I still believe harming and killing innocent people…
It has always been a mortal sin to kill innocent people on purpose. That is called murder. It is not a sin to kill in defense of self or other innocent people when threatened by crime and evilness. Nothing new here.

Ranp
 
… which is weird since people 1000s of years ago were not really destroying the earth anywhere near the extent we collectively are doing. Which makes one really believe the Bible was written or inspired by God, since only God could have possibly known to what huge extent we are today now engaged in destroying the earth systems that support life.
I believe Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition are the inspired Word of God because of the Holy Catholic Church declares it so.
Modern environmental issues play no part of my belief in God and His holy Word.

“I would not believe in the Gospels were it not for the authority of the Catholic Church”
–Saint Augustine of Hippo

Ran
 
I believe Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition are the inspired Word of God because of the Holy Catholic Church declares it so.
Modern environmental issues play no part of my belief in God and His holy Word.

“I would not believe in the Gospels were it not for the authority of the Catholic Church”
–Saint Augustine of Hippo

Ran
So you’re saying based on the Bible it is impossible for destruction of earth systems to occur. Or that even if that were to happen, human sin couldn’t have anything to do with it.

Are you sure you read the entire Bible all the way to the end? 🙂
 
So you’re saying based on the Bible it is impossible for destruction of earth systems to occur. Or that even if that were to happen, human sin couldn’t have anything to do with it.

Are you sure you read the entire Bible all the way to the end? 🙂
The ONLY substantial reason to focus on this topic is if it will save souls…not necessarily lives.

Our lives are worth nothing (“jars of clay”)…our soul’s value is incalculable.

So one reason for Catholics to “get involved in the environment” IS NOT really to get the UN to tell me what kind of toilet I can have…or what kind of shower faucet…or to put in some carbon tax that will be a huge pocket liner for frauds like Al Gore…etc.

…but instead to meet and befriend souls…WHO THINK doing these other things is all that important…and to…through sincere friendship and good solid work…help them understand that there is a God who loves them…and desires to have a “love affair” with them, while they are on His good earth.

So there’s an “apostolic” reason for getting involved in the environment that FAR FAR FAR outstrips any sort of “toilet ordering” dimension to “caring for the environment”.
 
So you’re saying based on the Bible it is impossible for destruction of earth systems to occur.
How did you come up with this question given that my post didn’t contain anything about the destruction of the earth? If you quote me then your reply should be about what I actually said.

Anyway, I know from the Bible and from science that the earth will not last forever. But regardless of how the earth ends it is unlikely that I will be around to see it happen. I’m Catholic, not Protestant, thus the end of the world is not something I worry about.
Or that even if that were to happen, human sin couldn’t have anything to do with it.
Blowing up the earth and killing millions will clearly be a mortal sin. I do worry about my soul, I go to church, pray, and beg God for forgiveness of my sins. However, I do not lose any sleep over the destruction of the earth. However, I did enjoy World War Z.
Are you sure you read the entire Bible all the way to the end?
Such a childish insult (stating a fact and not trying to insult your insulting skills), I usually see that insult being used by high school kids and college freshmen. If you are going to insult me then I demand that you do so in a much more sophisticated manner.

Ran
 
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