Top 5 Reasons People Think You Aren't Catholic

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ByzCathCantor said:
A provision for “Eucharistic Ministry” was indeed added to the Norms of Particular Law of the Byzantine Metropolitan Church sui juris of Pittsburgh, U.S.A., 1999 (“Norms”):

It is odd that a recently ordained deacon would not be familiar with these Norms, but understandable as well, given the focus of their training. Pastors of course are required to know and understand these Norms.
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I’m not talking merely about an added provision. I said he had no idea that the Norms of Particular Law of the Byzantine Metropolitan Church even existed.
 
5Loaves said:
It would be a nice opportunity to have priests of the Latin Church concelebrate and assist with the distribution. 🙂
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Of course but even that was a concern because of priest availability, inexperience with distributing communion via intinction with a spoon and age/steadiness of hands.
 
Jegudiel said:
Even more painful is that the others who completed the same multi-year diaconate formation that he did were also in the dark about this information, and who knows what else.
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Now you have me curious. We have one deacon serving our sister parish nearby. I know him well. I’ll have to inquire as to his level of general knowledge on this subject. In his case, I’d be surprised if he did not know of the Norms, and I’m pretty certain his ordination either predates or closely coincides with that of the deacons you know. He was ordained in 1988 and serves the Eparchy of Passaic, but I believe may have been educated and trained in another diaconal formation program (i.e. that of a non-Ruthenian Eparchy).
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
We have a specific Feast Day in which we venerate the Seven Ecumenical Councils. There is a great deal of speculation among both Eastern and Roman Catholic scholars over whether or not the later 14 Councils can even be considered ecumenical. But that is a conversation for another thread. Point is, Eastern (Byzantine) Catholics do not venerate the later 14 Councils liturgically.
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Pope Paul VI supported the distinction between general councils and ecumenical councils. However, I don’t know if any of his successors have done so.
 
Cavaradossi said:
I … a daily divine liturgy becomes problematic, especially with your average married parish priest. What is a rather grave abuse, however, would be Orthodox parishes which do not regularly hold vespers on the day before in anticipation of the liturgy.
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What might be dispensed as problematic versus an abuse is just a matter of custom, I suppose. And that might change, just as the normal frequency of communion has changed radically.

I think, however, that your idea that divine liturgy without vespers is a grave abuse is interesting. Why vespers and not matins? How uncommon is this “grave abuse”? What is the gravity of the abuse?
 
Jegudiel said:
Sorry about that but daily Divine Liturgy is a GOOD THING no matter how you want to spin it. It’s a 50+ year old tradition here. The local ordinary approves of it. Several people attend each morning. This tradition within the Eparchy predates the Particular Law you mentioned. The “pastoral reason” is God’s grace.
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Hopefully there are plenty of priests to take turns, or they’re widowed or otherwise unmarried. 🙂
 
5Loaves said:
Hopefully there are plenty of priests to take turns, or they’re widowed or otherwise unmarried. 🙂
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Take turns? Why? Our former pastor NEVER missed celebrating the daily Divine Liturgy. On his days off he celebrated quite early in the AM…
 
dvdjs said:
What might be dispensed as problematic versus an abuse is just a matter of custom, I suppose. And that might change, just as the normal frequency of communion has changed radically.

I think, however, that your idea that divine liturgy without vespers is a grave abuse is interesting. Why vespers and not matins? How uncommon is this “grave abuse”? What is the gravity of the abuse?
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Perhaps abuse was an overstatement. It’s just something I really dislike.

That being said, having a liturgy without matins is equally as bad. I just didn’t mention it because not having vespers is a more common phenomenon.

I feel that not offering vespers/matins is pretty terrible because of the fact that both offer valuable insight into the life of the Church. Also because vespers marks the beginning of preparation for the liturgy to take place the next day. Of course, some of the the faithful ungratefully do not take advantage of this, but for the priest not to offer these services which are so deeply tied into the liturgical life of the Church is a real shame, much more so than not offering a daily divine liturgy.

As for how common it is: I can only speak of my experience here in Houston, but I don’t think a single church in the Greek Orthodox archdiocese here has regular Saturday Vespers. The Antiochians and The OCA do a good job of holding Vespers regularly, however.
 
I think that for many Latin Catholics, the term “Catholic” and “Latin Rite” are so closely intertwined as to be indistinguishable. So, yes, they don’t see how EC’s are “Catholic” at all as our respective spiritual cultures are quite different from that in the West.

Many Latin Catholics would also be surprised to learn that the Eastern Churches have preserved so very much of the patrimony of the early Church, including married clergy.

The idea that celibacy and the Priesthood are somehow part and parcel of one another would have come as a great shock to the early Church Fathers and to St Paul himself.

Happily, because we EC’s live our own lives within our own parishes and eparchies and are quite oblivious to what the surrounding Latin dioceses are up to, we don’t really concern ourselves with whether they think of us as being this much or that much Catholic. Most of what I see in Latin Rite parishes mostly calls to mind Protestant, not Catholic, tradition.

Sorry . . .

Alex
 
Jegudiel said:
5Loaves;9013456:
Hopefully there are plenty of priests to take turns, **or they’re widowed or otherwise unmarried. **
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🙂
Take turns? Why? Our former pastor NEVER missed celebrating the daily Divine Liturgy. On his days off he celebrated quite early in the AM…
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You seem to be very quick to anger, and to take my quote out of context… 🤷
 
5Loaves said:
You seem to be very quick to anger, and to take my quote out of context… 🤷
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Why would you make such a judgement of me based on what I typed? That is a horrible thing to do.

I asked a question – why would a daily Divine Liturgy require more than one priest to “take turns” as you suggest? To cover for the pastor on his day off or vacation? That’s all I was asking.
 
Probably because some delight in pronouncing themselves as “Orthodox in Communion with Rome.” That moniker seems as if it’s designed to confuse and in some cases offend others.
 
nickybr38 said:
After reading these I think I would gladly move to an Eastern Rite if there was one in the area. 🙂 Sounds lovely. Especially the no instruments at Mass thing. Nothing I love more then voices sans instrumental accompaniment! 👍
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I was thinking the same thing!! Sounds very Orthodox, too. Strange…
 
Jegudiel said:
Why would you make such a judgement of me based on what I typed? That is a horrible thing to do.

I asked a question – why would a daily Divine Liturgy require more than one priest to “take turns” as you suggest? To cover for the pastor on his day off or vacation? That’s all I was asking.
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Your use of all capital letters, which is normally considered yelling.

Sorry, I thought my post was clear-- preparation for Holy Communion involves abstinence from marital intercourse the day before, so unless he is as I said widowed or otherwise unmarried, having daily Eucharist means he and his wife are never engaging in the marital act.:sad_yes: That was all I meant. Cavaradossi already mentioned this as well in his/her post.
 
Cavaradossi said:
I don’t know if one could call it laxity. There are prohibitions against having a divine liturgy when the priest is alone. Combine that with the requirement that priests (and presumably the laity) abstain from marital relations before communing, and serving a daily divine liturgy becomes problematic, especially with your average married parish priest. What is a rather grave abuse, however, would be Orthodox parishes which do not regularly hold vespers on the day before in anticipation of the liturgy.
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Where is this codified? There is no such requirement within the Byzantine Ruthenian recension to my knowledge.

There aren’t many married priests within Metro Pittsburgh anyway.
 
5Loaves said:
Your use of all capital letters, which is normally considered yelling.

Sorry, I thought my post was clear-- preparation for Holy Communion involves abstinence from marital intercourse the day before, so unless he is as I said widowed or otherwise unmarried, having daily Eucharist means he and his wife are never engaging in the marital act.:sad_yes: That was all I meant. Cavaradossi already mentioned this as well in his/her post.
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Your judgement was misplaced and rude.
 
Jegudiel said:
Where is this codified? There is no such requirement within the Byzantine Ruthenian recension to my knowledge.

There aren’t many married priests within Metro Pittsburgh anyway.
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I have no idea to be honest if it’s codified in the canons of the Catholic Church, as I can only really speak for the Orthodox tradition. I know, however, that in the East, the traditional eucharistic fast involves abstaining from marital relations the evening beforehand (as well as food), for both clergy and laity.
 
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