Originally Posted by Blue Horizon View Post
That is somewhat obvious from your erroneous position re grace, forgiveness and free will and why I pointed out this old teaching to you.
Is Catholic theology on CAF to be set to the limits of Ginny89s lay catechesis?
Oh please, you really have no grasp at all of what I said. For a start I did not say babies had committed mortal sin but rather unbaptized babies are validly said to be in a state of mortal sin. ie a very poor relationship with God, a punishment, an impairment, loss of the possibility of heaven if left unaided. Standard Catholic teaching, even stronger than that on the possibility of remarriage.
Do come back to us when you have serious references other than repetition of your own personal lay theology.
The topic is not forcing of relationship but can God remit punishment for our sins (ie forgiveness) without our first repenting. Well if humans can why cannot God
To think the woman caught in adultery is a perfect paradigm of modern day confessional protocols and “absolution” (which is not the same as “forgiveness”) is so anachronistic I do not know whether to laugh or cry.
As usual, adhominems when caught stating a foolish notion such as babies are in mortal sin, clearly not knowing the difference between mortal sin and original sin.
I mean, for centuries the church debated whether dead unbaptized babies went to limbo **precisely because their state is not the same as the state of a soul damned for mortal sins **but noo! Lets just go with Blue’s ideas, where he states flatly that babies are in mortal sin
and then he claims I made him do it!!!
And this here is just precious:
** Do come back to us when you have serious references other than repetition of your own personal lay theology.**
FOLLOW YOUR OWN ADVICE! This is literally what you have done for weeks upon weeks here, is inundating us with your own twisted PERSONAL LAY THEOLOGY.
I was foolish to allow myself to be drawn back into a discussion with you. O well, we are only human!
*Originally Posted by Blue Horizon View Post
Again your insufficient lay Catechesis lets you down when you try to punch beyond your weight as it were. You really do not understand what original sin is nor what a state of mortal sin is because you only have the drivers manual to guide you rather than the more detailed and complete mechanic’s manual .
It’s merely a simple and politely observed home truth to help you objectively discern your insufficiency of learning for comment on this point.
Seeing that you are so determined to embarrass yourself theologically you force me to demonstrate this to you to the hilt. Look up the first chapter or so of the Baltimore Catechism.*
You will find indeed that it is perfectly valid to say that unbaptized babies are in a state of mortal sin.
If you have any sense of objective scholarship and shame do come back and quote the verse I refer to from my memory of being taught it old school 50 years ago. That was when we got real Catechesis…quite apart from my later tertiary studies.
The reason you cannot accept this is because your lay understanding of original sin, mortal sin and the role of free will in forgiveness of sin is incomplete and poorly formed. It betrays the influence of both secular Enlightenment philosophy (i.e. modern science and democracy) resulting in your vaguely passive aggressive Pelagianism on this point re forgiveness.
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