Torn between Catholicism and the world

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Paddy1989

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I don’t know if this is the right section for this thread however i couldn’t find any other where it would be more suitable so i’ll post it here. For quite a while i have been feeling a sense of despair where i feel torn between the Catholic world-view and the secular world-view which is in direct conflict of my faith. It is based primarily on my taste’s and interest’s and also my group of friend’s some of whom i have known since i was 5 year’s old. My friend’s are your typical young western lad’s highly attached to a hedonist lifestyle which is promoted and glamorized, some are worse than other’s though and almost all were born Catholic yet none practice or believe anymore. The typical interest’s at the weekend by young men are to go out to a bar, club or both, drink heavily and pursue women who are scantily dressed mostly for one thing. The women here are just the same. I admit i used to be immersed in this lifestyle although i always felt there was something empty in it, if i did give in to lust and pursue women it was i admit both for selfish reason’s and something more such as to pursue a relationship. I believed that premarital sex in a relationship wasn’t immoral, to put it simply you could say that i always wanted to find the right women whom i would marry and have a family which essentially is good ( i always found the coldness and blandness of casual sex to be disgusting) but at the same time i wanted sexual intimacy due to having a high drive not believing it could be controlled succumbing to the selfish secular world-view on sex and seeing the Catholic view on sex which i knew little of at the time to be quite bland.

Anyway since i have come back to the faith my whole character over the last few year’s has changed, i have constantly been in search for the TRUTH which i now know Catholicism consist’s entirely of. The thing’s that are the norm in secular society i now see as disordered, it can be a bit frustrating at time’s as so many are blind to the truth’s of these norm’s or don’t care thus i am left feeling out of place internally which does get to me at time’s. The thing is that i now find club’s and bar’s generally boring, ok for very short period’s of time but the obessesion with getting drunk and immodest dress and behavior i feel disgusted in, there doesn’t seem to be much reason for me to go there as they are meant for all these thing’s, i enjoy the social interaction but as i said this is ok for short period’s of time and all that i mentioned above turn’s me off wanting to go there.

Now at the same time i love house/dance/trance music and the atmosphere surrounding it, i love the buzz of going out with the lad’s enjoying myself but as i’m sure most of you are aware of the sort of event’s this music is associated with (club’s, festival’s etc) and what behaviors are practiced at it. I just feel torn between that which i love and the activities which have become associated with it, like for example watching house music on you-tube at let’s say a club in Ibiza where i love the music but everything i see disgust’s me at it so i just feel mixed feeling’s. It is more to do with the fact that the feeling i used to have going out with the lad’s to these place’s and the buzz and excitement i got especially on lad’s holiday’s is something i miss, it’s not that i miss the behavior’s of such place’s but i just missed that buzz/excitement feeling and i now feel out of place internally because i now know the truth. If i didn’t go to these place’s i would essentially have no social life as this is really the only thing young people do here and look forward to. The biggest thing people look forward to in a year though is holiday’s which is an even more extreme version of all the behaviour’s i mentioned above, i haven’t been on holiday’s with the lad’s in 3 year’s and when i hear their stories i feel like i missed out, when we are talking about the next one i do feel excited but as the same times saddened at the fact that now i no longer indulge in such behaviour’s i know i won’t fit in and just feel empty.

Anyway sorry for making this so long but i just wanted to explain how i feel which at time’s is despair. It does get to me at time’s especially whenever instead of going out i sit in, i just feel saddened. I would really like to know does anyone relate to this, i do feel more isolated than ever before just where i feel like i’m the only Catholic on earth lol ( there are almost little to no young practicing catholic’s) so when i look around it seem’s everyone has embraced secularism and it’s world-view. Where their character and thus behavior has become shaped by it
 
You have tasted of the emptiness of partying and pursuing wrongdoing. You know that it is wrong.

Now is the time to find new friends and activities. How about a retreat where you can get some spiritual direction?

Look into young adult groups in your parish or neighboring parishes. How about a Bible study?

Have a good chat with a priest you like very much.

If you choose to not “get out of your box” then nothing will change.
 
The Bible says we are from this world…not of it. We are supposed to not indulge in secular temptations. I know it is hard and terribly lonesome at times. I have moments where I feel like the only pious person around. Offer up you sufferings to the Lord, and continue in your path of righteousness. There are plenty of Catholics online to befriend. The Catholic family is large and supportive. I am here for you because I know what you are going through. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
 
I though of St Francis of Assisi as I read your post.
I think you’ll find that you both shared this battle.
And so did Saint Augustin in his earlier life.

You do recognize and accept the promptings of God’s Spirit in your heart, so that is a great blessing.
Saints of God who struggled through the opposing allure of worldly pursuits, and the call to be true Catholics responding to God’s Holy Spirit and God’s holy Word, please intercede for Paddy that he also will valiantly and faithfully live in Christ’s light and love.

Paddy, regarding you own patron, St Patrick
There is some introductory information, but in this link you will also find the extant writings of St Patrick, which may inspire you.

He is my own patron, my full nme being Patricia, and I do have a copy of his writings, the reading of which tends to touch me. I’m particularly moved by his humility and humanity, and his desire to live God’s will. He also came from a prosperous family, as did St Francis of Assisi

God bless you,
warm regards, Trishie

confessio.ie/more/article_kelly#
 
I spent years torn between my faith and secular lifestyle and its ideology. It was very difficult because I felt like I didn’t fit in with the church crowd (too pious for my taste back then), but I wasn’t comfortable with the atheists either. I also loved going out dancing and for me it was about the music and socialising with friends, not about getting drunk and casual sex. However, these things are not possible to separate completely and these aspects of the way I socialised with people started to bother me more and more as I was growing closer to God. In the end I got tired of it all when I hit 30. I couldn’t be bothered to go out and all that and my life changed. I got more involved with church. I met a number of people and made new friends. I discovered that these pious types could actually be fun too, and that I could have a social life with them. I was still friends with some people I used to go out partying with, but became much more selective in that respect. At one point I just couldn’t handle silly conversations about who got drunk and who got laid. I think I just grew up.

Also, these nights out and wild holidays together will not last forever. People change. This is something you should accept as inevitable and normal. You are already a few steps ahead from your friends and need new content in your life. It is not a tragedy if you look outside your existing circle of friends for something more. So my advice for you is to really try and meet practicing Catholics your age. You said they don’t exist but I am pretty confident that they do. We can’t do this alone, we need company along the way. Having at least one person you can relate to makes a huge difference.

Hope this helps. God bless.
 
This excerpt from a Catholic World News article sums up the diversity of competing views in today’s world: “More weddings in Scotland are now conducted by the Humanist Society than by the Catholic Church, according to newly released government statistics. Of the 29,135 marriages that took place in 2011, there were 15,092 civil weddings, 5,557 Church of Scotland weddings, 2,486 humanist weddings, 1,729 Catholic weddings, 865 Assembly of God weddings, and 694 Anglican weddings. In addition, there were 554 homosexual civil partnerships registered in 2011.”
 
Thank you all for your kind comment’s, i do understand Catholic friend’s is most desirable but there are essentially no youth group’s here. There are a few annual youth retreat’s that happen in Ireland several time’s a year by youth 2000 but when i watch the video’s it always seemed like an evangelical event where people have their hand’s up in the air to praise music. I always felt that was a bit cheesy and relies on an creating an emotional buzz, i suppose i could try it anyway and see what else it offer’s. It’s just i believed that i could still be Catholic and attend these place’s without compromising my faith, as i said the whole music and buzz excite’s me, it’s just everything else such as the behaviour’s disgust me so i felt torn. I do understand what i need to do, i think my feeling of despair come’s most from feeling isolated (like the only Catholic alive) and not having anyone to relate to, so my desire of one day finding a Catholic spouse is even more unlikely to downright near impossible. I’m just gonna keep praying and trust in God. Overall though i have always been happy and go through life with great optimism for the future
 
Paddy1989 said:
Thank you all for your kind comment’s, i do understand Catholic friend’s is most desirable but there are essentially no youth group’s here. There are a few annual youth retreat’s that happen in Ireland several time’s a year by youth 2000 but when i watch the video’s it always seemed like an evangelical event where people have their hand’s up in the air to praise music. I always felt that was a bit cheesy and relies on an creating an emotional buzz, i suppose i could try it anyway and see what else it offer’s. It’s just i believed that i could still be Catholic and attend these place’s without compromising my faith, as i said the whole music and buzz excite’s me, it’s just everything else such as the behaviour’s disgust me so i felt torn. I do understand what i need to do, i think my feeling of despair come’s most from feeling isolated (like the only Catholic alive) and not having anyone to relate to, so my desire of one day finding a Catholic spouse is even more unlikely to downright near impossible. I’m just gonna keep praying and trust in God. Overall though i have always been happy and go through life with great optimism for the future
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I have 2 sons, 18 and 21, and I know exactly what you are describing with the music you like. The club scene includes drinking, drugs, and whatever else happens. I even like that music but it comes straight from raves which are nothing but drug binges (X) held in illegal venues like deserted buildings. The problem with going to the clubs is that you are not going to indulge in all the behaviors so you will be a “stranger in a strange land,” so to speak. You want the music but none of the “extras” that go along with it.

In the US we have some Christian metal bands, punk, etc. so one can listen and even attend concerts that are 100% squeaky clean. I know of no Christian trance - as you know, that genre comes mainly from the Netherlands where smoking weed is legal and they have pot bars where you can smoke in public. I don’t know if the music is played in those places but it does seem an interesting connection that all the trance DJs are Dutch.

You need at least one other friend who has reformed himself, and you won’t feel quite so lonely. You can still do the club scene, you just have to know that you are in the world but not OF the world. Heck, I feel the same way in 99% of the places I go to - like I am looking in a shop window at things I used to tolerate but now find cheap and degrading. I can’t even articulate to most people what is wrong with the world - because they are fish in the water and don’t understand what being wet even is.

No real answers except to hang in there, and pray. Another guy like yourself longs to find at least one friend he can hang out with, and there are more, you just have to let go of some of your lads in order to find him.

And it might be time for you to start looking for that special lady, too, whom you are not going to find in a bar or a club (at least I hope not!). You can still go to concerts but you have to recognize that most people there are going to be high as a kite while you won’t be. Oh, yeah, if you do “designated drivers” in Ireland, you can hook up with those lads and probably they might at least be more interested in staying straight than the lads who are getting blasted.

oh and p.s. - if you do go to the clubs and see bad behavior, consciously pray for the people at the moment. They need prayer.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
I have 2 sons, 18 and 21, and I know exactly what you are describing with the music you like. The club scene includes drinking, drugs, and whatever else happens. I even like that music but it comes straight from raves which are nothing but drug binges (X) held in illegal venues like deserted buildings. The problem with going to the clubs is that you are not going to indulge in all the behaviors so you will be a “stranger in a strange land,” so to speak. You want the music but none of the “extras” that go along with it.

In the US we have some Christian metal bands, punk, etc. so one can listen and even attend concerts that are 100% squeaky clean. I know of no Christian trance - as you know, that genre comes mainly from the Netherlands where smoking weed is legal and they have pot bars where you can smoke in public. I don’t know if the music is played in those places but it does seem an interesting connection that all the trance DJs are Dutch.

You need at least one other friend who has reformed himself, and you won’t feel quite so lonely. You can still do the club scene, you just have to know that you are in the world but not OF the world. Heck, I feel the same way in 99% of the places I go to - like I am looking in a shop window at things I used to tolerate but now find cheap and degrading. I can’t even articulate to most people what is wrong with the world - because they are fish in the water and don’t understand what being wet even is.

No real answers except to hang in there, and pray. Another guy like yourself longs to find at least one friend he can hang out with, and there are more, you just have to let go of some of your lads in order to find him.

And it might be time for you to start looking for that special lady, too, whom you are not going to find in a bar or a club (at least I hope not!). You can still go to concerts but you have to recognize that most people there are going to be high as a kite while you won’t be. Oh, yeah, if you do “designated drivers” in Ireland, you can hook up with those lads and probably they might at least be more interested in staying straight than the lads who are getting blasted.

oh and p.s. - if you do go to the clubs and see bad behavior, consciously pray for the people at the moment. They need prayer.
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Yea i understand what you are saying, attending a youth 2000 retreat might be my best bet. I hear about some of the group’s youn’s have in the State’s and it show’s Catholicism in some area’s is still pretty strong there and is really accessible and easy to get involved. Here the biggest youth event in the country only manages to pull over a thousand young people a year, this might seem good but considering Ireland’s rich Catholic history and population i find it alarming. As for finding the right woman, since i have been single over a year i have met a good few women ALL in bar’s and club’s, incompatible would be a mild way to put it. Some are very nice girl’s but we are still in different world’s and most just wanna drink, party half naked and behave in a promiscuous manner. This is true for 90% of the young female population here.

I suppose you could call what’s happened to me over the year’s as i’m sure other’s have experienced is the “great change” Tell me this though you all can relate to me whenever we talk about seeing thing’s in the secular world and understanding it for what it really is, the thing is that even before i came back to my faith it still felt empty and the behaviour’s disgusted me, even when i was immersed in it, whenever i would reflect later on thing’s i would have seen much of it what it really was. Why don’t other’s feel this? You made a point there that they are fish in water and don’t understand what being wet even is, i don’t understand why this is, i used to to believe that the more you live a certain way then your thinking shall resemble it perhaps to justify it, why is it that i and other’s who were immersed in it as i said above just don’t and can’t accept it, almost like we are incompatible with this lifestyle. I don’t understand how for some immersed in this lifestyle they feel imcompatible with it and know it is wrong and weak while most other’s are absorbed in it quite happily?

Anyway it’s nice to get all this off my chest, alot of support on this forum out of genuine love overwhelm’s me:). I don’t know if i can keep doing this scene, yes i love the socializing and craic with the lad’s but really if you aren’t there to get drunk and practice most if not all of the behaviour’s i mentioned above such a place get’s boring quite quickly not to mention you feel disgusted with the atmosphere and feel like you don’t wanna be there. Thank’s for people taking the time to listen and post
 
There are too many people in the world who don’t have a properly formed conscience, and that is why they are fish in the water of the material world. They have no experience of the Holy Spirit whispering to them, “You were not made for this…” 😦

Some may even have a conscience but they work at tuning it out. Getting drunk or high can do that, and soon enough one becomes numb to any promptings of the Holy Spirit. “Spirits” are more important. I have heard/seen through many sources that females in the UK are just as aggressive about drinking as the men, sometimes even more so, and will binge drink until they black out, and call that a great time. :eek: To say nothing of being very aggressive about sex…😦

I think you just need to find some new activities and some new mates. I know I said, “just,” when it’s not easy and it hurts to cut off people you have had a long history with. But when you spend time with these friends, you do not honor yourself. And they sense that you are different now and do not share their same mindset. They will eventually drift away and not invite you to their meetups, I think.

I was thinking about your situation as I drove to the store and back home, listening to Ferry Corsten on the CD player…Thinking about “straight edge” punk bands and wondering if trance could support that…a straight edge trance DJ…hmmmm…probably not, considering all the drugs that people take at raves and concerts.

You’ll be in my prayers.
 
Hi again Paddy 🙂

They spoke about the youth 2000 clonmacnoise retreat taking place this month in my church last weekend. I am acquainted with the girl who was helping organise it and they are such a lovely group of people. She assured me most people turn up on their own and it’s very informal and everyone seems to love it. She also told me they are arranging another shorter retreat in October sometime in the North as well.
I’ve always been apprehensive of it ‘being my scene’ and I’m quite a shy person and espeically private in regards to my faith but they were very open and from reading your post I think it would benefit you a lot to see so many young catholic people in our country today.
The best summer I ever spent was with a group of young, also Irish, students working for priests in Rome. Time of my life and strengthened my faith! Maybe look for similar working opportunities for short bursts of time? I have started to read in my church and feel more involved with my faith and church as a community which has been a great help in focusing me.

God bless,
Susan
 
Paddy1989 said:
when i hear their stories i feel like i missed out, when we are talking about the next one i do feel excited but as the same times saddened at the fact that now i no longer indulge in such behaviour’s i know i won’t fit in and just feel empty.

…at time’s is despair. It does get to me at time’s especially whenever instead of going out i sit in, i just feel saddened. I would really like to know does anyone relate to this, i do feel more isolated than ever before just where i feel like i’m the only Catholic on earth lol ( there are almost little to no young practicing catholic’s) so when i look around it seem’s everyone has embraced secularism and it’s world-view. Where their character and thus behavior has become shaped by it
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Bro… I am you.

I live on the coast in aus; let me tell you, you can’t beat this place when it comes to secular society in all its smutty glory…

I’ve been going through or have gone through a lot of what you and others have explained, this kind of “shift” from society and its norms. The things which I thought I enjoyed, I now absolutely despise.

A few things which have helped me:

The first thing I would suggest (if you have not done so already) is to at least open up to your friends in regards to your Catholic lifestyle; this has definitely made things easier for me, and most of my mates wholeheartedly respect my decision… it’s also led to some pretty interesting conversations, haha.

Another thing would be to remove a lot of TV, movies and video games from the everyday schedule, including “secular” music. It sounds a bit extreme, but I’ve learnt to live without them. They are nothing but pure timewasters which artificially pull at your emotions… I noticed that these things would almost desensitize me to the reality of God in a way… I was completely enveloped by this stuff even though I didn’t think I was, it was almost subconscious? It’s hard to put my finger on the way I felt prior… but I can almost say that I never fully experienced the veracity of life before I removed these artificial placeholders from it. It’s something that sounds radical, but (just like removing yourself from substance abuse or extensive partying) it’s something I strongly recommend trying to do.

I’ve thus shifted my focus onto God, Study and Family. This includes reading a tonne of books (something which I was never into), and it’s helped me immensely… It’s introduced me to the lives of many of the saints, and I’ve even taken a keen interest in philosophy and theology, which has broadened my mind and opened my heart. This website has also been a great help.

In turn, I have morphed into somewhat of a recluse, and as you mentioned… lacking this former social interaction can be painful, but I pray every day that I can move on with my life in the way which was intended, or that I may bump into others who share similar passions as I now do… I suppose I’ve placed that aspect of my life into Gods hands, while in the meantime, bettering myself intellectually and spiritually.

Setting simple goals for the future (like; finishing school, getting a job, earning a degree etc.) is something which also helps take the focus off “being alone” as well, and you’ll find yourself interacting with others anyway, (in ways other than the “socially degrading” kind).

To sum it up: > Replacing partying and drinking with family life and study has kept me focused in the present, replacing TV and video games with prayer and contemplation has kept me at peace, and having an alluring and worthwhile goal keeps me motivated. 👍

so yeah, just keep your head up dude
TheRealJuliane said:
The problem with going to the clubs is that you are not going to indulge in all the behaviors so you will be a “stranger in a strange land,” so to speak. You want the music but none of the “extras” that go along with it…

…I can’t even articulate to most people what is wrong with the world - because they are fish in the water and don’t understand what being wet even is.

No real answers except to hang in there, and pray. Another guy like yourself longs to find at least one friend he can hang out with, and there are more, you just have to let go of some of your lads in order to find him…
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This ^
you’re spot on!
*“fish that don’t understand what being wet even is” * < best analogy.
We need more mothers like this one!

peace
 
SusanRose said:
Hi again Paddy 🙂

They spoke about the youth 2000 clonmacnoise retreat taking place this month in my church last weekend. I am acquainted with the girl who was helping organise it and they are such a lovely group of people. She assured me most people turn up on their own and it’s very informal and everyone seems to love it. She also told me they are arranging another shorter retreat in October sometime in the North as well.
I’ve always been apprehensive of it ‘being my scene’ and I’m quite a shy person and espeically private in regards to my faith but they were very open and from reading your post I think it would benefit you a lot to see so many young catholic people in our country today.
The best summer I ever spent was with a group of young, also Irish, students working for priests in Rome. Time of my life and strengthened my faith! Maybe look for similar working opportunities for short bursts of time? I have started to read in my church and feel more involved with my faith and church as a community which has been a great help in focusing me.

God bless,
Susan
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Thank you for the info:thumbsup:, i am definitely considering attending the next retreat especially the next one that is in the North
 
Greg_N said:
Bro… I am you.

I live on the coast in aus; let me tell you, you can’t beat this place when it comes to secular society in all its smutty glory…

I’ve been going through or have gone through a lot of what you and others have explained, this kind of “shift” from society and its norms. The things which I thought I enjoyed, I now absolutely despise.

A few things which have helped me:

The first thing I would suggest (if you have not done so already) is to at least open up to your friends in regards to your Catholic lifestyle; this has definitely made things easier for me, and most of my mates wholeheartedly respect my decision… it’s also led to some pretty interesting conversations, haha.

Another thing would be to remove a lot of TV, movies and video games from the everyday schedule, including “secular” music. It sounds a bit extreme, but I’ve learnt to live without them. They are nothing but pure timewasters which artificially pull at your emotions… I noticed that these things would almost desensitize me to the reality of God in a way… I was completely enveloped by this stuff even though I didn’t think I was, it was almost subconscious? It’s hard to put my finger on the way I felt prior… but I can almost say that I never fully experienced the veracity of life before I removed these artificial placeholders from it. It’s something that sounds radical, but (just like removing yourself from substance abuse or extensive partying) it’s something I strongly recommend trying to do.

I’ve thus shifted my focus onto God, Study and Family. This includes reading a tonne of books (something which I was never into), and it’s helped me immensely… It’s introduced me to the lives of many of the saints, and I’ve even taken a keen interest in philosophy and theology, which has broadened my mind and opened my heart. This website has also been a great help.

In turn, I have morphed into somewhat of a recluse, and as you mentioned… lacking this former social interaction can be painful, but I pray every day that I can move on with my life in the way which was intended, or that I may bump into others who share similar passions as I now do… I suppose I’ve placed that aspect of my life into Gods hands, while in the meantime, bettering myself intellectually and spiritually.

Setting simple goals for the future (like; finishing school, getting a job, earning a degree etc.) is something which also helps take the focus off “being alone” as well, and you’ll find yourself interacting with others anyway, (in ways other than the “socially degrading” kind).

To sum it up: > Replacing partying and drinking with family life and study has kept me focused in the present, replacing TV and video games with prayer and contemplation has kept me at peace, and having an alluring and worthwhile goal keeps me motivated. 👍

so yeah, just keep your head up dude

This ^
you’re spot on!
*“fish that don’t understand what being wet even is” * < best analogy.
We need more mothers like this one!

peace
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It’s really nice to know someone completely relate’s to this as it has frustrated me for quite a while so i’m glad i created this thread. I definitely agree with you that enveloping oneself in secular culture certainly doesn’t help. I think most thing’s are best done in moderation and this is definitely one of them. I have learn’t alot about my faith over the year’s and alot of it was down to the internet and such easy access to pretty much everything regarding the faith. There is still many activities to do and that i am involved in such as football, jujitsu, gym etc so one simply need’s to just find interest’s. I just think there is more to life and more excitement than putting oneself into an infant state of intoxication, it’s dehumanizing but i definitely agree that we need to be more involved within a Catholic community so Youth 2000 definitely does a good job of creating that community for Catholic’s such as ourselves. Maybe you could also become in involved in Youth 2000 Australia as i know how hard it can be being in a secular bubble.
 
Paddy1989 said:
It’s really nice to know someone completely relate’s to this as it has frustrated me for quite a while so i’m glad i created this thread. I definitely agree with you that enveloping oneself in secular culture certainly doesn’t help. I think most thing’s are best done in moderation and this is definitely one of them. I have learn’t alot about my faith over the year’s and alot of it was down to the internet and such easy access to pretty much everything regarding the faith. There is still many activities to do and that i am involved in such as football, jujitsu, gym etc so one simply need’s to just find interest’s. I just think there is more to life and more excitement than putting oneself into an infant state of intoxication, it’s dehumanizing but i definitely agree that we need to be more involved within a Catholic community so Youth 2000 definitely does a good job of creating that community for Catholic’s such as ourselves. Maybe you could also become in involved in Youth 2000 Australia as i know how hard it can be being in a secular bubble.
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yeah man, it’s so hard not to get caught up sometimes… don’t lose sight. I pray the rosary now every day; it keeps me grounded. And yeah man I’ll be completely honest, I’m usually deterred from these “youth” gatherings… I went to a couple a few years back, and they just came across as way too corny for my tastes - I’m all about that old school doctrine, the stuff that hits home and hasn’t been watered down.
On top of that, I doubt there is one being held in my area - I’ve never heard of Youth 2000, (I will keep an eye out though), if you end up going make sure to hit us up and let us know how it went.

Stay blessed brother
 
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