Torn between love and the Church

[Bibliothecaria]

I know it’s strange that I should be torn between love and the Church. Let me explain:

I’ve been away from the church for a long time, about 10 years, and am just finding my way back, or at least starting. During the time when I was away from the church, I started a relationship with a man with whom I have been deeply in love.

Having him in my life has been the most incredible, wonderful, life-affirming experience in my entire life. He treats me like a queen, and I adore him. However, I’m finding problems now that I am beginning to want to come back to the church. It’s a very complicated situation, and one that is causing me some agony.

On one hand, we are unmarried, have lived together before, and have had sexual relations. Which are all against Church teaching.

On the other hand, I feel that our relationship has a lot of merit as well. While we have never been married officially, we have always regarded our relationship as a sacred, unbreakable union. While we’ve always had the intention to marry, we didn’t really consider it a requirement. We both uphold some of the basic Church teachings–no divorce, no contraception, no abortion. And we have never considered our sexual relations to be based on lust, but rather true love. Our love for each other remains constant and ever growing regardless of whether or not we are physically close–because of his job, we’ve also spent lots of time apart.

I know that is still no excuse in the eyes of the Church, and that the Church would regard our relationship as unacceptable. But it’s so hard for me to see the fault in it. I have trouble seeing how any form of love can be wrong, or bad.

Another major issue is that he was never raised to be a member of the Church. He has not been baptized. He fully supports my desire to go back to the Church, and he has agreed strongly that if/when we have a child, the child should be raised Catholic. He himself does not feel a great need to become a practicing Catholic himself, though.

If we are to continue our relationship and get married and have a family, won’t it be regarded as illicit by the Church? And if so, how on Earth will I ever be able to become a full member of the Church again? And what about our child–would our child have a place in the Church? On the other hand, ending our relationship would be the greatest loss of my entire life. I can’t even think about it without feeling a blinding pain. Part of me would truly die, I know it!

Can anyone please help me, give me advice, guidance, etc.? I’d really appreciate it! For now, I am trying to just listen to the Lord, and praying that perhaps he will join me in becoming a part of the Church. So that we can have a fresh start together. I think, hope, and pray that everything will work out all right.

Thank you.

 

[stbruno]

This is a new website started by the Family Ministries of the Chicago archdiocese. It is called www.inthespiritofcana.org.
Put in the search engine, if you are thinking of marrying this person what has to be done between a Catholic and a non-baptized person. It has great tools that you should consider. God is calling you back to your faith for a reason. Real love means that we want our mate in heaven with us some day. You are are the tool God is using to bring you to him one day for all eternity. Isn’t that worth coming back into the graces of the church for. Eternity is forever

Also look up what Fr.Corapi has to say about true marital love. This is an amazing way to look at marriage in the church. Please read it. You will be hooked by his wisdom on the topic.

 

[jeffreedy789]

you’ll want to be married in the church - and of course it’s extremely important for him to become a practicing catholic, too.

but don’t stress - God is calling you home - and has given you this love for this man. trust in Him, pray for your man, and stop having ‘relations’ until you’re married.

but keep growing toward Him - keep seeking Him - and pray! He’s got your best in mind - He’ll take care of you.

 

[FiremanFrank]

(PART 1)

Bibliothecaria,

What a heart wrenching story - to see a person’s heart and mind torn between their actions, and that of the the truly unalterable and loving teachings of Mother Church.

First off, I see that you offer us a forum name that associates itself with the Bible. That’s good! But in having done so, one should not falter against knowing what that Bible teaches when it comes to Faith and Morals.

I shall say no further on that point, as you and I both know what Scripture teaches in that regard. Right?

You have so much to say, so please allow me to comment on things as you presented them to us here. Let’s get started then already!

I know it’s strange that I should be torn between love and the Church. Let me explain:

Probably not as strange as you think Biblio. You might certainly feel alone in your situation right now, but believe me … your not the first person who is having to wrestle with their conscience!

I’ve been away from the church for a long time, about 10 years, and am just finding my way back, or at least starting.

Great! You have begun the journey home! I just returned back to the Church about 10 years ago myself.

During the time when I was away from the church, I started a relationship with a man with whom I have been deeply in love.

Love is grand!

Having him in my life has been the most incredible, wonderful, life-affirming experience in my entire life. He treats me like a queen, and I adore him. However, I’m finding problems now that I am beginning to want to come back to the church. It’s a very complicated situation, and one that is causing me some agony.

First off, please be aware that this desire, to return to the Church, only could have originated from God. It is the Holy Spirit that has touched your heart. Having difficulties when encountering such a call is all part of the journey. Be strong biblio! And investigate God’s voice that you are hearing, as you then examine your life now in perspective to that call.

On one hand, we are unmarried, have lived together before, and have had sexual relations. Which are all against Church teaching.

This much is true. I am happy to see that you already know a little bit about the Church’s Teaching on Moral Theology.

On the other hand, I feel that our relationship has a lot of merit as well.

As I’m sure it can/does.

While we have never been married officially, we have always regarded our relationship as a sacred, unbreakable union.

You are speaking here as a kind and polite adult, and so you encourage me then to respond to you in that same manner and tone. Having said that, may I ask you then biblio - How do you define the word “sacred”? And more importantly, how do you think Jesus would define the word “sacred”?

While we’ve always had the intention to marry, we didn’t really consider it a requirement.

To give you a little bit of the Church’s understanding on marriage (no heavy theology here biblio), the Church sees God’s creation of “Adam having been made for Eve, and Eve having been made for Adam” - as being His way of consecrating the marriage bond and making it a Holy Sacrament and therefore something that He desires. Does that make sense?

We both uphold some of the basic Church teachings–no divorce, no contraception, no abortion.

VERY GOOD!

And we have never considered our sexual relations to be based on lust, but rather true love.

Even though this might be the case, the Church teaches that we owe our Love to God first before anything or anybody. That seems right, doesn’t it? And if you accept the Church’s teaching that we owe our Love to God first and foremost, then you must also love what His Church teaches - as they are one in the same thing. And you have already demonstrated to me that you are a smart lady and that you know what the Church’s Teachings are on this matter. Right?

(END OF PART 1)

 

[FiremanFrank]

(PART 2)

Our love for each other remains constant and ever growing regardless of whether or not we are physically close–because of his job, we’ve also spent lots of time apart.

Jesus teaches us through His Church that, yes, before marriage certain parts of a relationship can and will in fact grow and be nourished. But dearest biblio, one part that is not to be experienced before the marriage covenant has taken place is the physical aspect of that relationship. There are many very good reasons for this biblio, but I think best one is Love. Love for Jesus first, which is accomplished by honoring Christ with His Church’s Teaching that you remain chaste until He may personally bless both of you in His very own house - The Church!

I know that is still no excuse in the eyes of the Church, and that the Church would regard our relationship as unacceptable. But it’s so hard for me to see the fault in it. I have trouble seeing how any form of love can be wrong, or bad.

Trust Jesus biblio, who gave us a Church to help us when we feel confused or are not sure about certain things. That’s one of the reasons why He gave us the Church in the first place! So we wouldn’t have to second guess our actions as to what was right or what was wrong. As to your having trouble seeing how any form of love can be wrong, what about the love that some people have for money, or for drugs, or how about people who love to rob others of their posessions, or those who love to make other people feel miserable. Are they “good” types of love biblio? And if you mean love between two consenting adults, then would you agree that I may love another woman - even if she’s already married to another man? If not, why not? Use your mind biblio, to clearly think through such examples. I think that if you do, then you’ll start to get the picture …

Another major issue is that he was never raised to be a member of the Church. He has not been baptized. He fully supports my desire to go back to the Church, and he has agreed strongly that if/when we have a child, the child should be raised Catholic. He himself does not feel a great need to become a practicing Catholic himself, though.

Well, for sure, this doesn’t make things “easier”. I think that you know that much yourself. The more “different” you are in your beliefs from your future spouse, the more ways then that might cause friction down the road. And you know, while these things might seem “trivial” in nature now, think about posibly having to deal with them at some future time when the bills are late, the kids are crying, and the refrigerator is empty!

If we are to continue our relationship and get married and have a family, won’t it be regarded as illicit by the Church?

In a sense, yes biblio. They might or might not ask you as to your “arrangements” as they exist now, but the real question is: Would you yourself want to enter into a marriage before God in His Church, having known beforehand under what “conditions” it was that you were living in?

(END OF PART2)

 

[FiremanFrank]

(PART 3)

And if so, how on Earth will I ever be able to become a full member of the Church again?

My dear precious biblio. The Sacrament of Reconciliation exists so that a person might relieve one self of the culpability of sin before God. BUT - for this Sacrament to be properly administered as God had intended it to be, a person needs to make a promise … to show an effort, of having separated themselve from that sin BEFORE confession is made. Put another way, you can’t just say “I’ll rob the bank down the street, take the money, and then just confess to it later”. Ahemmm. Doesn’t work that way. After all biblio, it’s not like we’re fooling God here as to our true intentions …

And what about our child–would our child have a place in the Church?

Your child is not held responsible for your own actions - whether they be good or bad. But if you want to fully love your child as I sincerely feel that you do, then wouldn’t you want them to be a member of the Church as soon as they were born - and be properly baptised as God most assuredly had intended them to be?

On the other hand, ending our relationship would be the greatest loss of my entire life.

Just a tiny bit of perspective here. Losing your relationship with Jesus Chriust would be the greatest loss of you entire life. And in all reality biblio, anything else should pale in comparison to that. Remember - it was God who first created you and the man that you love. So if it wasn’t for God then … you wouldn’t even have your future husband. And that’s why each and every one of us owes our Love to God first before anybody or any thing. Does that make sense?

I can’t even think about it without feeling a blinding pain. Part of me would truly die, I know it!

Just a brief word of caution here biblio. Emotions are not infallible. At certain times, they can mislead us, or at the very least, skew our judgment somewhat. Also, think about what you have said here for a minute. Would Jesus rather have you live in a manner which His Church has taught that is good, even though it might cause you some emotional pain? Or do you really think that He would personally will that you would disobey the Teachings of His Church, which are in fact His Teachings, so that you might find “fulfillment” in someone/something else? That would mean that He would be against Himself. Hmmm. Where do I remember hearing that, “A house divided against itself can not stand”. No biblio, He would never want you to violate His Church’s teaching - no matter what! He loves you too much to wish that you would disobey His own Church!!!

Can anyone please help me, give me advice, guidance, etc.? I’d really appreciate it! For now, I am trying to just listen to the Lord, and praying that perhaps he will join me in becoming a part of the Church. So that we can have a fresh start together. I think, hope, and pray that everything will work out all right.

Well, I’ve tried to do what I can young lady. Don’t know if I helped any … hope I did. Is there a priest that you know of or that someone may recommend to you that you might be able to discuss this with? That would help you then, to better understand what Christ has taught His Church about the Sacrament of Marriage, Confession, etc. You really need the experience a lending ear that knows the Church’s Teaching well, but maybe not on a so distant or removed nature as these forums can provide.

Keep In Touch with us here biblio, 'cause we care!

We really do!

frank

 

[Bibliothecaria]

Gosh, I feel much better already! Wow, the support and wisdom you’ve all offered is overwhelming!

FiremanFrank special thanks for the obvious great amount of time and thought you’ve put into your kind and very thorough responses. They make a ton of sense, and have really helped clear my head.

As to my “pen name,” I have to admit that I did not intend any Bible-related meaning. It’s from the Classical Latin for “librarian.” Of course, it was based on the Classical Greek “byblos,” which later came to refer specifically to the Bible. But the secular meaning has lived on in Romance languages. Anyway, I really chose it to reflect my profession and my love of Latin! As my sig says, “the only good language is a dead language”!

Yeah, I really need to find a priest to talk/cry/confess to. I’m looking into different churches in my area…

Thanks again everyone!

 

[slinky1882]

Bibliothecaria:

On one hand, we are unmarried, have lived together before, and have had sexual relations. Which are all against Church teaching.

On the other hand, I feel that our relationship has a lot of merit as well. While we have never been married officially, we have always regarded our relationship as a sacred, unbreakable union. While we’ve always had the intention to marry, we didn’t really consider it a requirement. We both uphold some of the basic Church teachings–no divorce, no contraception, no abortion. And we have never considered our sexual relations to be based on lust, but rather true love. Our love for each other remains constant and ever growing regardless of whether or not we are physically close–because of his job, we’ve also spent lots of time apart.

I know that is still no excuse in the eyes of the Church, and that the Church would regard our relationship as unacceptable. But it’s so hard for me to see the fault in it. I have trouble seeing how any form of love can be wrong, or bad.

Another major issue is that he was never raised to be a member of the Church. He has not been baptized. He fully supports my desire to go back to the Church, and he has agreed strongly that if/when we have a child, the child should be raised Catholic. He himself does not feel a great need to become a practicing Catholic himself, though.

If we are to continue our relationship and get married and have a family, won’t it be regarded as illicit by the Church? And if so, how on Earth will I ever be able to become a full member of the Church again? And what about our child–would our child have a place in the Church? On the other hand, ending our relationship would be the greatest loss of my entire life. I can’t even think about it without feeling a blinding pain. Part of me would truly die, I know it!

Can anyone please help me, give me advice, guidance, etc.? I’d really appreciate it! For now, I am trying to just listen to the Lord, and praying that perhaps he will join me in becoming a part of the Church. So that we can have a fresh start together. I think, hope, and pray that everything will work out all right.

Thank you.

I just wanted to address two points that haven’t been, although FF did a good job. First on the child, the little one would have a place in the Church regardless of how the Church looks on your relationship. But I must warn you if the relationship continues as is (wihout a Sacramental Marriage), the child at some point in the future may have it pointed out the Church’s view that by their parents living together without getting married, the parents are living in a state on sin (leaving the culpability to God and the pastor you should talk to). The best course possible would be to get married in the Church, and your husband would not have to convert. The Catholic party only must sign saying that they will do their best to raise the children Catholic (the rules are a lot more leanient than they used to be.)

But it’s so hard for me to see the fault in it. I have trouble seeing how any form of love can be wrong, or bad.

The Love that you share may be true Love, but remember that both the means and the ends must be good. A simple way to put it would be that a good deed doesn’t change a bad intention into a good one, so a good intention doesn’t change a bad deed into a good one either. From the vantage point of the Church, the Love you may share does not change the fact that sex outside of marriage is wrong. “Traditional morality say that three things determine whether an act is good or bad: the situation, the motive and the act itself.” (Kreeft, A Refutation fo Moral Relativism"). So for relations, the couple may desire out of Love for union and procreation to have sex (which was ordained by God for those purposes in Matrimony), but the relations MUST take place within the situation of Marriage to be Holy. A great book I’d recommend in Fulton Sheen’s “Three to Get Married” in which the former bishop rightly adresses that Love is Triune in nature and in the Sacrament of Marriage, the man and woman join by God’s Grace. True Love is ALWAYS Triune in nature with a lover, a beloved and Love. Hope this helps some as to why the Church teaches the way it does. May God grant you and your significant other the Grace to come Home and enjoy the Graces that come through the Sacrament of Marriage for the two of you but also for future children Lord willing. Thanks and God Bless.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

St. Paul insisted that the mere sex act made a man and a woman “one body”… so you are in the water already. You have set up an eternal relationship with this man, not because you are in love, but because you have in fact been living as man and wife. Depending on the length of your relationship, it might even have legal standing in some juridictions.

St. Paul also told those who were called but were married to an unbeliever who was tolerant of the faith that they should not seek a divorce, because the unbeliever might be won over by the believer. (It is highly unlikely that your case of having left for 10 years and then come back ever arose during his tenure!)

You have to consider which is more likely: that you will slide back away from the faith or finding raising children in the faith too difficult, should you marry your partner, or that he might join the faith on your account. He does not have to convert in order for you to marry him, as long as he is agreeable to your teaching your children the faith. Seek the advice of a good priest and pray seriously about this, but I think that the option of marrying your partner is a viable one. You have chosen a difficult road… but you know that. In any event, do not wait until he converts for marriage. Either decide to marry, or decide to separate. Your current arrangement is unacceptable: the time of decision has come.

 

[FiremanFrank]

Gosh, I feel much better already!

Great! Now, the fee will be $100 + all applicable state & local taxes.

(lightning bolt from out of no where) OUCH!

Ok, Ok Jesus. It’s FREE …(darn, can’t He take a joke?)

LOL

the support and wisdom you’ve all offered is overwhelming!

I’ve got lots of support to give you biblio - not so sure on the wisdom thing though … but thanks anyway!

**

FiremanFrank

special thanks for … very thorough responses. They make a ton of sense, and have really helped clear my head. **
I made sense to someone and helped to clear their head? Darn it!

Now who’s gonna HELP ME?

As to my “pen name” … It’s from the Classical Latin for “librarian.”

Ummmm. Yeah. I knew that … I was just testing you.

Yeah, I really need to find a priest to talk/cry/confess to.

Looks like a plan biblio (and in the right order too). Go For It!

P.S. If you would like, please keep us informed of how you’re doing.

Later!

frank

 

[Bibliothecaria]

Well…

I understand why I’ve felt such an urgency to rejoin the church. God knew I would need somewhere to turn because…

My beloved man died in a plane crash Thursday. :crying:

So… I’m not really torn any more… I just feel about a kajillion times worse now.

Anyway, there’s my update. More later.

 

[misericordie]

Bibliothecaria:

I know it’s strange that I should be torn between love and the Church. Let me explain:

I’ve been away from the church for a long time, about 10 years, and am just finding my way back, or at least starting. During the time when I was away from the church, I started a relationship with a man with whom I have been deeply in love.

Having him in my life has been the most incredible, wonderful, life-affirming experience in my entire life. He treats me like a queen, and I adore him. However, I’m finding problems now that I am beginning to want to come back to the church. It’s a very complicated situation, and one that is causing me some agony.

On one hand, we are unmarried, have lived together before, and have had sexual relations. Which are all against Church teaching.

On the other hand, I feel that our relationship has a lot of merit as well. While we have never been married officially, we have always regarded our relationship as a sacred, unbreakable union. While we’ve always had the intention to marry, we didn’t really consider it a requirement. We both uphold some of the basic Church teachings–no divorce, no contraception, no abortion. And we have never considered our sexual relations to be based on lust, but rather true love. Our love for each other remains constant and ever growing regardless of whether or not we are physically close–because of his job, we’ve also spent lots of time apart.

I know that is still no excuse in the eyes of the Church, and that the Church would regard our relationship as unacceptable. But it’s so hard for me to see the fault in it. I have trouble seeing how any form of love can be wrong, or bad.

Another major issue is that he was never raised to be a member of the Church. He has not been baptized. He fully supports my desire to go back to the Church, and he has agreed strongly that if/when we have a child, the child should be raised Catholic. He himself does not feel a great need to become a practicing Catholic himself, though.

If we are to continue our relationship and get married and have a family, won’t it be regarded as illicit by the Church? And if so, how on Earth will I ever be able to become a full member of the Church again? And what about our child–would our child have a place in the Church? On the other hand, ending our relationship would be the greatest loss of my entire life. I can’t even think about it without feeling a blinding pain. Part of me would truly die, I know it!

Can anyone please help me, give me advice, guidance, etc.? I’d really appreciate it! For now, I am trying to just listen to the Lord, and praying that perhaps he will join me in becoming a part of the Church. So that we can have a fresh start together. I think, hope, and pray that everything will work out all right.

Thank you.

What can we say?? You already know that you are living in sin. Those particular ones can’t ever be justified=free union, concubine, fornication. These are serious sins and are obstacles to God’s grace.

 

[misericordie]

Bibliothecaria:

Well…

I understand why I’ve felt such an urgency to rejoin the church. God knew I would need somewhere to turn because…

My beloved man died in a plane crash Thursday. :crying:

So… I’m not really torn any more… I just feel about a kajillion times worse now.

Anyway, there’s my update. More later.

Many blessings, all will be fine. Talk to a good priest.

 

[kage_ar]

Bibliothecaria:

Well…

I understand why I’ve felt such an urgency to rejoin the church. God knew I would need somewhere to turn because…

My beloved man died in a plane crash Thursday. :crying:

So… I’m not really torn any more… I just feel about a kajillion times worse now.

Anyway, there’s my update. More later.

My prayers are with you, and for the soul of your loved one.

 

[puzzleannie]

read John chapter 14 and 1 Corinthians 13 on the nature of true love, and then examine your condition again, and you will find there can be no contradiction between true love and obedience to the Church which is Christ present on earth.

 

[Trelow]

Bibliothecaria:

Well…

I understand why I’ve felt such an urgency to rejoin the church. God knew I would need somewhere to turn because…

My beloved man died in a plane crash Thursday. :crying:

So… I’m not really torn any more… I just feel about a kajillion times worse now.

Anyway, there’s my update. More later.

My rosarys tomarrow will be one for his soul, and one for you.

May our Blessed Mother hold you near her bosom in this trying time for you.

God bless and comfort you.

 

[javelin]

Bibliothecaria:

Well…

I understand why I’ve felt such an urgency to rejoin the church. God knew I would need somewhere to turn because…

My beloved man died in a plane crash Thursday. :crying:

So… I’m not really torn any more… I just feel about a kajillion times worse now.

Anyway, there’s my update. More later.

My thoughts and prayers go out to you, Bibliothecaria. I can’t even begin to imagine your grief. I will truly pray that you see how this fits with God’s Will for your life. Always remember Romans 8:28. Perhaps God called to you as strongly as He did so that your late beloved would have a prayer advocate on Earth.

One addendum to all the previous messages: remember that the moral “rules” the Church professes regarding marriage and sexuality do not come from the earthly institution, but rather from God Himself. The Church simply acts as the messenger and teacher of God’s moral law to all of humanity.

Stay the course, and welcome back home.

Peace,
javelin

 

[patientone]

Dear Bibliothecaria,

My deepest sympathies for the loss of your loved one, God Bless
you on your journey home.

Patientone

 

[Ignatius]

Bibliothecaria:

He fully supports my desire to go back to the Church, and he has agreed strongly that if/when we have a child, the child should be raised Catholic. He himself does not feel a great need to become a practicing Catholic himself, though.

If we are to continue our relationship and get married and have a family, won’t it be regarded as illicit by the Church?

You should post your question on the “Ask an Apologist forum.” Mixed marriages, while not encouraged, are not uncommon today. If you are married in the Church, it will, of course, be perfectly valid and sacramental. You should speak to the local parish priest and begin counciling in preparation for marriage immediately.