Toronto Star Vs. Vatican On Communion for Politicians

[HagiaSophia]

The Toronto Star, the largest circulation paper in Canada, has printed a columnwhich is being regarded by some Catholics as a clear case of inciting hatredtowards the Catholic Church.* Celebrated Star columnist Joey Slinger’s column entitled “With this Vatican, all’s fair in faith and war” appears in the ‘news’ section of today’s paper on page A2. The Star, often referred to as the Red Star by critics, has a long history ofbias in its reporting ofstories related to traditional morality and any institutions supporting that morality.

In the column, Slinger takes issue with the Pope and Bishops of the Catholic Church who are considering refusal of communion for those Catholics who obstinately persist in grave public sin, such as pro-abortion and pro-same-sex ‘marriage’ politicians.* “So the Pope is thinking about excommunicating our Prime Minister, is he? In the religion game, that’s called hardball,” writes Slinger.

Slinger continues, “So if the Pope wants to play hardball, fine. We can play hardball too.** How about he can excommunicate our Prime Minister and we can get rid of the tax exemption on Catholic Church property?* What a windfall that would be. Millions. Millions upon millions. Mega-millions if we make it retroactive . . . They’d have to start selling their real estate. Failing that, we’d have to seize it and auction it off. It’s happened before. It was a fairly popular medieval screw-you gesture.”

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/oct/05101107.html

 

[harinkj]

Clearly politics and religion should not be mixed, on either side. There was a lot of feeling during the Kennedy campaign of 1960 that a Catholic would be subservient to the Pope. When the Church leadership threatens to withhold communion for politicians it only fuels this unfortunate position.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[dennisknapp]

harinkj:

Clearly politics and religion should not be mixed, on either side. There was a lot of feeling during the Kennedy campaign of 1960 that a Catholic would be subservient to the Pope. When the Church leadership threatens to withhold communion for politicians it only fuels this unfortunate position.

• Kathie :bowdown:

The Church withholds communion in order to protect the soul of the Pro-abortion politicians, not to make communion political.

Peace

 

[Superstar905]

I’m from Toronto and I read that articale yesterday. I wanted to digest it before blowing up, and now that I see it’s gettings some attention for the obvious hate involved, I see that it’s not just me. Why is anti Catholicism the last acceptable public hate allowed in the media, especially in North America? Not to mention, if you look at one of the links at the bottom of the Article, it looks as if this “Slinger” guy who wrote the article, also has it in for Evangelicals.

Makes me absolutely sick.

 

[fix]

harinkj:

Clearly politics and religion should not be mixed, on either side. There was a lot of feeling during the Kennedy campaign of 1960 that a Catholic would be subservient to the Pope. When the Church leadership threatens to withhold communion for politicians it only fuels this unfortunate position.

• Kathie :bowdown:

Many think Kennedy was a sell out. He was hardly a role model.

Manifest sinners should be denied as it rightly confuses and scandalizes the faithful.

 

[harinkj]

dennisknapp:

The Church withholds communion in order to protect the soul of the Pro-abortion politicians, not to make communion political.

Peace

I think not. The same would be applied to governors who put people to death then.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[fix]

harinkj:

I think not. The same would be applied to governors who put people to death then.

• Kathie :bowdown:

What Church teachings says the death penalty is intrinsically evil and those who advocate it are manifest sinners?

 

[harinkj]

HagiaSophia:

“So the Pope is thinking about excommunicating our Prime Minister, is he? In the religion game, that’s called hardball,” writes Slinger.

Slinger continues, “So if the Pope wants to play hardball, fine. We can play hardball too.** How about he can excommunicate our Prime Minister and we can get rid of the tax exemption on Catholic Church property?* What a windfall that would be. Millions. Millions upon millions. Mega-millions if we make it retroactive . . . They’d have to start selling their real estate. Failing that, we’d have to seize it and auction it off. It’s happened before. It was a fairly popular medieval screw-you gesture.”

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/oct/05101107.html

Clearly this is opinion and does not belong in the news section. :tsktsk:

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[harinkj]

fix:

Many think Kennedy was a sell out. He was hardly a role model.

I would agree. Clearly he is no role model.

I do think that in the long run, Catholic politicains should not be singled out and pressured by the Church. We will end up with a situation where no Catholics will get elected, even the good ones.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[David_Zampino]

harinkj:

I think not. The same would be applied to governors who put people to death then.

• Kathie :bowdown:

Not exactly. Catholic teaching on abortion has been consistent since the 1st century. Current Catholic teaching on the Death Penalty has developed greatly over the centuries, and even, to this day, is not absolutely prohibited, not even in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The two issues cannot be judged in the same way.

 

[fix]

harinkj:

I would agree. Clearly he is no role model.

I do think that in the long run, Catholic politicains should not be singled out and pressured by the Church. We will end up with a situation where no Catholics will get elected, even the good ones.

• Kathie :bowdown:

I have to disagree. We are called to be a sign of contradiction. It is not so much about pressure as it is about what is true.

 

[harinkj]

David Zampino:

Not exactly. Catholic teaching on abortion has been consistent since the 1st century. Current Catholic teaching on the Death Penalty has developed greatly over the centuries, and even, to this day, is not absolutely prohibited, not even in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The two issues cannot be judged in the same way.

But in cases where a death penalty is prohibited by the church, the governor is actually a party to the commission of a specific death warrent. Politicians who support choice of a woman are not direct parties to the commission of an abortion.

It seems like we are splitting hairs here.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[fix]

harinkj:

But in cases where a death penalty is prohibited by the church, the governor is actually a party to the commission of a specific death warrent. Politicians who support choice of a woman are not direct parties to the commission of an abortion.

It seems like we are splitting hairs here.

• Kathie :bowdown:

Where has the Church prohibited the death penalty?

 

[David_Zampino]

fix:

Where has the Church prohibited the death penalty?

And that’s the problem. It hasn’t done so.

 

[harinkj]

fix:

Where has the Church prohibited the death penalty?

I remember Pope John Paul II calling for it not to be used in specific cases.

But fine, let the Church shoot itself in the foot by pressuring Cathjolic politicians. Restore the anti-Catholic fervor among certain elements of society.

You seem to miss the point.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[Confiteor]

harinkj:

I remember Pope John Paul II calling for it not to be used in specific cases.

But fine, let the Church shoot itself in the foot by pressuring Cathjolic politicians. Restore the anti-Catholic fervor among certain elements of society.

You seem to miss the point.

• Kathie :bowdown:

The Church discourages the death penalty in as much as it is believed other methods can be used to protect society. But it is still viewed in the context of a means of protection/defense and the final authority on this is reserved by the Church to the civil authorities. Remember that the individuals involved have been convicted of heinous crimes in a court of law. Some of the writings of Cardinal Avery Dulles and Cardinal Ratzinger (pre-papacy) address this distinction in moral theology terms.
Abortion is different --intrinsically evil, involves only innocent lives.

I understand your point about Catholic politicians who stand up for their beliefs being politically vulnerable, but what would you suggest? If they would compromise on issues that the Church designates as intrinsic evils (that they personally oppose), where will that lead? It led Pontius Pilate to have Jesus crucified.

 

[fix]

harinkj:

I remember Pope John Paul II calling for it not to be used in specific cases.

But fine, let the Church shoot itself in the foot by pressuring Cathjolic politicians. Restore the anti-Catholic fervor among certain elements of society.

You seem to miss the point.

• Kathie :bowdown:

The Church is called to be faithful. If folks perceive legitimate sanctions as pressure that is irrelevant. The truth must be preached whether it is seen as pressure or not.

 

[dennisknapp]

harinkj:

I remember Pope John Paul II calling for it not to be used in specific cases.

But fine, let the Church shoot itself in the foot by pressuring Cathjolic politicians. Restore the anti-Catholic fervor among certain elements of society.

You seem to miss the point.

• Kathie :bowdown:

The Church is in the business of saving souls, not politics; nor worried about restoring the anti-Catholic fervor among certain elements of society. Society was extremely anti-Catholic during the first three hundred years of Christianity, but some how we survived.

What do we have to be afraid of?

Peace

 

[harinkj]

Confiteor:

I understand your point about Catholic politicians who stand up for their beliefs being politically vulnerable, but what would you suggest? .

I really don’t think denial of communion would stop a Kennedy or a Kerry from running for office. It won’t change their point of view. In fact they may very well find a bishop who will authorize communion for them.

However, the resulting brouhaha concerning Papal control will probably decrease the chance for good Catholics to be elected. It may even cause some Catholic politicians who would remain quiet on choice to have to take a position pro-choice to prove their independence from the Pope in the eyes of the non-Catholic electorate.

More rational discussion there is of abortion, rather than hateful discussion, will result in more saved souls.

The Church can still be pro-life and against abortion and criticize Catholic and non-Catholic politicians on the issue without the idea for control over the Catholic ones.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[fix]

harinkj:

I really don’t think denial of communion would stop a Kennedy or a Kerry from running for office. It won’t change their point of view. In fact they may very well find a bishop who will authorize communion for them.

However, the resulting brouhaha concerning Papal control will probably decrease the chance for good Catholics to be elected. It may even cause some Catholic politicians who would remain quiet on choice to have to take a position pro-choice to prove their independence from the Pope in the eyes of the non-Catholic electorate.

More rational discussion there is of abortion, rather than hateful discussion, will result in more saved souls.

The Church can still be pro-life and against abortion and criticize Catholic and non-Catholic politicians on the issue without the idea for control over the Catholic ones.

• Kathie :bowdown:

I could not disagree more. Salvation of souls is the greatest concern. When most Americans see so-called Catholic politicans receiving holy communion even when supporting grave sin that says the Church really does not take communion seriously and leads many to conclude abortion may be acceptable.

Politicians, and others, who claim to be faithful need to understand that truth is not some plastic thing we can bend for our own purposes.

For too many years this terrible scandal has gone on and who knows how many souls have been lost because of it.

Bishop Burke has said the reason he finally chose to speak out about this issue is because so many lay people called, emailed, sent letters, etc to him telling him to take action. I pray more folks make their needs known and that Bishops will be faithful to canon law and to the Truth and put an end to this scandal.