Torture Devises of the Passion at Alter

[consecrated_one]

At our Church we have a Cat-o-Nine-Tails, 2 1/2ft 4 inch thorns - crown of thorns, 7" Nails,
Mallet, Ropes, red scarf draped to resemble the flow of blood, 4 large stones. All “Artfuly Arranged” directly in front of the alter. I think this is TOO much, especially for children and people of delicate sensibilities. I can’t even bare to watch the Passion! People are all different and express their remorse and penetential feelings differently. I REALLY don’t think this whole thing is necessary. As Lent goes on there will be even more instruments of torture added. What do you think, do you have children and how do you think they would respond, does your church do something similiar?

 

[Cristiano]

What part of unbloody sacrifice people do not understand?

 

[consecrated_one]

I’m sorry, I don’t unerstand Latin and I’m afraid I don’t understand what you ment

 

[Moscati]

That strikes me as very strange. We don’t have any decorations in front of the altar, except fresh flowers every now and then (and the priest usually moves them, since he’s very, very allergic). For Lent we just drape some purple on the crucifix, and around Mary’s shoulders, and switch out the altar cloth.

I can understand the idea–Christians can often to take the real, physical, painful sacrificial aspect of the Crucufixion for granted, and we shouldn’t . . . but that seems a little extreme. Maybe they could do it in the narthex or a hallway or something? Instead of in front of the altar?

 

[consecrated_one]

It’s very upseting, we have a reasonably accurate depiction of Our Lord on the Crucifix,
we don’t need this. Like I mentioned it really upsets my daughter.

 

[corsair]

It appears that so far most of the posters are talking about the OF Altar arrangements. In the EF there is nothing in front of the Altar or on it except those Sacred Vessals that are pertinent to the Sacrifice of the Mass.

When we celebrate the Dominican Rite at the local NO Church, I almost always have to remove flower vases or arrangements from in front of the Altar and place them off to one side or in the Sacristy.

 

[MIKE46]

At our Church we have a Cat-o-Nine-Tails, 2 1/2ft 4 inch thorns - crown of thorns, 7" Nails,
Mallet, Ropes, red scarf draped to resemble the flow of blood, 4 large stones. All “Artfuly Arranged” directly in front of the alter. I think this is TOO much, especially for children and people of delicate sensibilities. I can’t even bare to watch the Passion! People are all different and express their remorse and penetential feelings differently. I REALLY don’t think this whole thing is necessary. As Lent goes on there will be even more instruments of torture added. What do you think, do you have children and how do you think they would respond, does your church do something similiar?

Are these thing permanently there or only during the Lenten season? If it is only during the Lenten season then it is probably just a reminder of what Jesus went through, which I think many people either don’t really care about or don’t really want to know about. It is just too painful to think about for more than a few. However, in the past these sorts of thing and even elaborate passion plays were the norm. Some of them were according to all accounts quite violenet and bloody. remember also that in Europe it is not at all uncommon for Churches to have relics which include dried blood that liquifies, nails that allegedly came from the true cross ert. Jesus suffering is something that I think a lot of people just want to forget.

I see nothing wrong with it if it is used for that purpose. To drive home what really happened and just how awful it was and still is. Remember that every time we sin, we in essence wound Christ. I wonder if that is still taught.

If it is a permenent thing, then I would have to scratch my head and wonder why…

 

[Lamafacaja]

On the altar?!?!?! I’d make a run for it. Head for the hills. Find another parish, that just sounds plain ol’ whacked out. Don’t stand for it.

 

[Lamafacaja]

… sorry, botched this up a bit.

 

[Cristiano]

What part of unbloody sacrifice people do not understand?

I’m sorry, I don’t unerstand Latin and I’m afraid I don’t understand what you ment

The Latin quote is my signature and has nothing to do with the topic. Sorry for confusing you.

What I meant in my post is that people should understand that while we are sitting at the feet of the Calvary we do not need to see the blood and the cruelty of the crucifixion. We should be able to transcend that and just offer the perfect sacrifice to God without the need for gory details. Mass is for God not for us.

If we need to reflect on the sufferings of the Christ we have the Stations of the Cross.

 

[CDNowak]

At an unused side altar or in front of a covered statue would be more appropriate. I do think Americans need the visceral reminder of what that gold cross around their necks actually means. (Yes, I am also a “fan” of the ‘bloody’ crucifixes.)

 

[consecrated_one]

It looks like a bad CSI. And there’s more added each week.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Please speak to your priest about it. The intention is probably good, but if this display is scaring children and causing people to want to leave the church the priest needs to know.

During Lent we usually don’t have any decorations at all in the sanctuary (altar space). However, we do Stations based on Louis de Monfort’s descriptions that is definitely enough to remind you of Christ’s passion!

 

[RosaryCrusader]

What, are people ashamed of Christ’s death? Those instruments should be looked upon with a tender love and affection since they are the instruments which made possible our salvation. These instruments are no more ‘scary’ than a crucifix - hopefully your Church has one of those.

 

[consecrated_one]

Our Priest is very comfortable with our “Decorations” commitee choices. We do have a very well done Crucifix, about 6 to 8 ft. tall with blood at all the appropriate places including flowing some from Our Lord’s Side.
I think The Cat-O-Nine tails looks like a bad bd scene coupled with the "flowing red scarf (of symbolic blood) and the decorative scattering of 6-8 inch nails.

I really appreciate what every one has contributed, it’s nice to know the decorations are not the norm. And it is important to balance penance, crucifixion, with Jesus’s Saving Love especially for Children! Our Diosese removed all Risen Jesus, except the Sacred Heart. Kids need the Good Shepard type of experience, to help them draw close to Our Lord.

Rosary Crusader, Sorry my question upset you, but a cat-o-nine tails IS Scary!

 

[palmas85]

At our Church we have a Cat-o-Nine-Tails, 2 1/2ft 4 inch thorns - crown of thorns, 7" Nails,
Mallet, Ropes, red scarf draped to resemble the flow of blood, 4 large stones. All “Artfuly Arranged” directly in front of the alter. I think this is TOO much, especially for children and people of delicate sensibilities. I can’t even bare to watch the Passion! People are all different and express their remorse and penetential feelings differently. I REALLY don’t think this whole thing is necessary. As Lent goes on there will be even more instruments of torture added. What do you think, do you have children and how do you think they would respond, does your church do something similiar?

Many Catholic Churches have the remains of Saints entombed within the altars fully visible to all in the Church. Many others have relics on display that relate to the passion of Jesus.

All too often these days we tend to try to cover up the suffering that Jesus went through for us. We tend to focus on the resurrection exclusively and ignore the death itself. It is something that we need to remember and realize that it happened because of us. You, I and everyone else.

Does anyone here rememberthe old devotion to the Five Precious Wounds?

I don’t see the problem with this at all.

 

[consecrated_one]

Unfortunately, that is absolutely nothing like what my church does, (see above) Thank you

 

[palmas85]

Unfortunately, that is absolutely nothing like what my church does, (see above) Thank you

I think yjay while your Church may have gone overboard a bit, what it did was in full agreement with whatthe Church has done repeatedly over the centuries.

As an aside, what do you think of the devotions that some people practice for Lent outside of such sanitary places such as the United States?. A good example would be the voluntary flagellations and Crucifixion of people in the Philippines during Lent. Would you find fault with those practices as well?

 

[consecrated_one]

I appreciate you agreeing that my church goes overboard abit.

As for the other, I can’t really make an intellegent comment because in some cases, as you mentioned, things are done in a completely different culture. Also, God speaks to each heart individually, and each person has their own idea of a proper responce to Our Lord. I would never fault what I don’t see or undertand, myself. I was in a Cloister and required to selfflagellate here in California. So things do go on in the U.S.

In my church’s case, it is sactioned by our Priest and forced on young and old alike.

 

[palmas85]

I appreciate you agreeing that my church goes overboard abit.

As for the other, I can’t really make an intellegent comment because in some cases, as you mentioned, things are done in a completely different culture. Also, God speaks to each heart individually, and each person has their own idea of a proper responce to Our Lord. I would never fault what I don’t see or undertand, myself. I was in a Cloister and required to selfflagellate here in California. So things do go on in the U.S.

In my church’s case, it is sactioned by our Priest and forced on young and old alike.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. In my view reminding us of what Jesus actually went through is an important thing and should not be ignored. Also, I see this whole issue as smacking of some protestant sensilbility. Let me explain. Protestants do not use the crucifix in their gatherings because they see it as an unnecessary and gory remembrance of the death of Jesus and not the resurrection itself, which is why they use the bare cross. Christ has risen. They used to and probably still do accuse Catholics of re-crucifying Christ at every Mass

Someone who has problems with gory reminders of the act itself, seems to be leaning towards that same sensibility.

As far as children, yes they need to know about the Good Shepard.

They also need to know and understand that the death of Christ was not a sanitary event and that his suffering was a direct result of us and our sins.

That particular area is often completely overlooked, ignored and in many cases forgotten these days.

Remember the film the Passion of the Christ? Mel Gibson was raked over the coals for his bloody depiction of the death of Jesus. Sadomasochistic fantasies screamed the headlines., What will this do to impressionable children? It is horrible that this was filmed. Awful, completely awful.

What did the Holy Father say about it?

IT IS AS IT WAS

We need to remember that and never allow ourselves to think of the death of Christ as anything other than what it was. A horrible, degrading and brutal event that saved us. And it that takes some heavy handed prodding on occasion, I’m all for it:thumbsup:.

I wish you and your family all the best