TOTAL Blasphemy in the Episcopal Church

[jay29]

Are these people nuts? It’s one thing to have sinners in a Church. It’s 10x worse to teach blasphemy to the believers.
**
Episcopal Presiding Bishop: Individual Salvation is ‘heresy,idolatry’**

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=34091&wf=rsscol

Episcopal Bishop Barbara Harris Denies Sacrament of Marriage

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=34090&wf=rsscol
**
Anglicans on Brink of Schism **

ncregister.com/daily/anglicans_on_brink_of_schism/​

If I was Episcopalian or Anglican, I would be running for the door, right into the Catholic Church. What nonsense.

 

[RevDrNorth]

It is sad indeed and full of unbiblical theology the equivalent of lukewarm oatmeal. The church that gave birth to so many of our nation’s leaders in many sectors is self destructing. It has lost its way and not maintained faith with the gospel. As a Christianity Today article noted several years ago they are the denominational equivalent of the Titanic.

The church is losing congregants at a remarkable rate, many it’s churches are in financial turmoil according to some reports, and it is spending a small fortune suing orthodox congregations. They will be left with elderly liberals of the Spong generation. My understanding is that they have a significant endowment so should be able to go on as an entity whether or not they continue to lose people.

Barbara Harris is certainly…um interesting. It is sad that a Bishop would communicate as she does. In fact, I wonder why so many of those Bishops & clergy are attempting to destroy the church and dismember the gospel.

The Episcopal Church could benefit from a Cardinal Ratzinger. In the end, even if the Episcopal Church continues to fade away there is a news flash for the Bishops, the only satisfaction they may have is that they rode the TEC to the bottom of the ocean …THE WORD OF GOD WILL NOT FADE AWAY.

 

[VARC]

Are these people nuts? It’s one thing to have sinners in a Church. It’s 10x worse to teach blasphemy to the believers.
**
Episcopal Presiding Bishop: Individual Salvation is ‘heresy,idolatry’**

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=34091&wf=rsscol

Episcopal Bishop Barbara Harris Denies Sacrament of Marriage

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=34090&wf=rsscol
**
Anglicans on Brink of Schism **

ncregister.com/daily/anglicans_on_brink_of_schism/​

If I was Episcopalian or Anglican, I would be running for the door, right into the Catholic Church. What nonsense.

Those who would run to Rome have already done so long ago. I believe most will run into the ACNA; maybe a few into the Continuers.

 

[slyboots]

Latitudinarians all of them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latitudinarian

 

[GKC]

Those who would run to Rome have already done so long ago. I believe most will run into the ACNA; maybe a few into the Continuers.

They won’t overcrowd the pews in my parish, if they do.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus

 

[7_Sorrows]

Are these people nuts? It’s one thing to have sinners in a Church. It’s 10x worse to teach blasphemy to the believers.
**
Episcopal Presiding Bishop: Individual Salvation is ‘heresy,idolatry’**

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=34091&wf=rsscol

Episcopal Bishop Barbara Harris Denies Sacrament of Marriage

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=34090&wf=rsscol
**
Anglicans on Brink of Schism **

ncregister.com/daily/anglicans_on_brink_of_schism/​

If I was Episcopalian or Anglican, I would be running for the door, right into the Catholic Church. What nonsense.

i did. i should have done it long before i did.

 

[VARC]

They won’t overcrowd the pews in my parish, if they do.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus

I believe that the Continuers have a once in a lifetime oppurtunity here and they are blowing it. If they joined with the ACNA in significant numbers they could heavily influence the issue of WO. Most of the ACNA is already opposed to the practice. The continuers could tip the scales. They would have to be tolerant of Low Church theology and practice (Calvinism, 39 articles, minimal vestments, etc) within particular low church parishes and dioceses. This would be a small price to pay (and something Anglican traditionally/historically have done) for a united restored traditional Anglican presence in NA. But alas this task is too big for continuers who cannot even unite amongst themselves.

 

[BernadetteM]

Several years ago, my niece whose father-in-law was the Episcopal Bishop of Los Angeles stated that he did not believe in the Resurrection of Christ.

That was quite a while ago and the Episcopal church has declined to extreme each year.

It is too bad that many people that leave the Episcopal church can’t really look at the Catholic Church with an open heart.

What I see is more and more former Episcopalians starting another church. Each with their own Bishop and their own beliefs. There apparently is no unity at all. When the Episcopal church was at least following the traditions and beliefs they had held for 500 years there was still unity within diversity.

When I read comments on blogs etc. no one agrees on the same theology. The low church members believe in a symbolic Eucharist, the high church and Anglo Catholics believe in the Real Presence. I have looked on some websites and some of the break away parishes still have Morning Prayer services except maybe early in the morning and once a month at the later service.

There is so much confusion now, and it is a shame that they all can’t at least be one and not bicker over their differences.

Of course I would love to see them all come into the fullness of the faith, but as a former Episcopalian I know that will never be.

My brother is still part of the Episcopal church and we never discuss religion. He has a PH.d from Princeton, but with all his intelligence cannot see the sadness and disaray that the church is in.

Let us pray for them all, as many souls are at stake when they deny orthodox Christian beliefs.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[VARC]

It is too bad that many people that leave the Episcopal church can’t really look at the Catholic Church with an open heart.

Bernadette

Very narrow minded of you. You act as if one who disagrees with the politics and theology of Rome then they have a closed heart. It is fallacious to assert because TEC is straying from orthodoxy that one must submit to Roman supremacy. A coward’s way out if you ask me.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Several years ago, my niece whose father-in-law was the Episcopal Bishop of Los Angeles stated that he did not believe in the Resurrection of Christ.

That was quite a while ago and the Episcopal church has declined to extreme each year.

It is too bad that many people that leave the Episcopal church can’t really look at the Catholic Church with an open heart.

What I see is more and more former Episcopalians starting another church. Each with their own Bishop and their own beliefs. There apparently is no unity at all. When the Episcopal church was at least following the traditions and beliefs they had held for 500 years there was still unity within diversity.

When I read comments on blogs etc. no one agrees on the same theology. The low church members believe in a symbolic Eucharist, the high church and Anglo Catholics believe in the Real Presence. I have looked on some websites and some of the break away parishes still have Morning Prayer services except maybe early in the morning and once a month at the later service.

There is so much confusion now, and it is a shame that they all can’t at least be one and not bicker over their differences.

Of course I would love to see them all come into the fullness of the faith, but as a former Episcopalian I know that will never be.

My brother is still part of the Episcopal church and we never discuss religion. He has a PH.d from Princeton, but with all his intelligence cannot see the sadness and disaray that the church is in.

Let us pray for them all, as many souls are at stake when they deny orthodox Christian beliefs.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

does your brother really believe in all of the beliefs of the Christian faith? i am not being rude, but i really believe there are those people who have their own private beliefs and fill the pews every sunday morning because they are expected to or to fulfill a social need.
for someone with a PH.D it is nice to know that he still goes to church and doesn’t feel he is so intelligent that he doesn’t need to go to church because he is atheist or whatever.

 

[jay29]

Very narrow minded of you.

Not really. It’s very narrow minded not to even consider the Catholic Church.

You act as if one who disagrees with the politics and theology of Rome then they have a closed heart.

If they never consider the CC, they do.

It is fallacious to assert because TEC is straying from orthodoxy that one must submit to Roman supremacy. A coward’s way out if you ask me.

The TEC is straying from the Holy Gospels as proven many times over the recent years. Jefferts Schori and her ilk, are wolves in sheep’s clothing and are false “teachers” as the Gospels have warned against. Only the Catholic Church has the fullness of TRUTH, not some break away splinter group.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Very narrow minded of you. You act as if one who disagrees with the politics and theology of Rome then they have a closed heart. It is fallacious to assert because TEC is straying from orthodoxy that one must submit to Roman supremacy. A coward’s way out if you ask me.

i think you are being too hard on the poster. if someone has already left the episcopal church, she simply wishes they would be open to looking at Roman Catholicism. she would like for them to be open to learning the history of the Catholic Church and what it means to be Catholic as opposed to being episcopalian, anglican, methodist, presbyterian, baptist, etc. many people are anti-catholic and really don’t understand everything about the Catholic church or have not been told the truth.
i was baptized and confirmed in the episcopal church. as a child, it meant everything to me. i loved the Book of Common Prayer. unfortunately, i went away to college at 18, and because my father was catholic and my mother lutheran, i was not given a strong foundation in Christianity. so i literally was not a part of any church for close to 25 years.
i did return to the episcopal church in another city, but i had always been strongly influenced by my dad’s side of the family who always proclaimed they were catholic (although they really weren’t practicing catholics). i wanted to find out on my own what the difference was between the roman catholic church and the episcopal church. i studied for about 5 years with a detour through a class in discovering judaism. as much as i loved the episcopal church, there were many things that were bothering me. i just did not agree with the direction the hierarchy of the american episcopal church was going.
i am not saying that i found the Catholic church easy or that i didn’t have issues, but it seemed right to me. i did feel like the episcopal church had let me down, but i think many people might experience that with their churches at some point in their life. i joined a group that separated from the episcopal church and formed an anglican church, but i still had questions. they were under an archbishop in uganda. i wasn’t really pleased with the weak leadership of the archbishop of canterbury, so i made the leap and converted. it has not been easy. being Catholic is not easy. there are many things i like about Catholicism - the rosary, mary, perpetual adoration, the eucharist, the saints, the prayers, the mass, etc.
where else could an episcopalian or an anglican go that celebrates the mass every sunday? you cannot go back to the regular protestant churches i don’t think. the only place to go is the Catholic church.

 

[GKC]

I believe that the Continuers have a once in a lifetime oppurtunity here and they are blowing it. If they joined with the ACNA in significant numbers they could heavily influence the issue of WO. Most of the ACNA is already opposed to the practice. The continuers could tip the scales. They would have to be tolerant of Low Church theology and practice (Calvinism, 39 articles, minimal vestments, etc) within particular low church parishes and dioceses. This would be a small price to pay (and something Anglican traditionally/historically have done) for a united restored traditional Anglican presence in NA. But alas this task is too big for continuers who cannot even unite amongst themselves.

True. There are a couple of reasons why Continuers can’t unite, after they first shattered their new (ACNA it was in those days, too) Church. And a disinclination to reinvent the Elizabethan Compromise is one of them.

But the WO is the killer. And impaired communion, as opposed to six/two candles, just might be too much to ask. I wouldn’t look favorably on it, myself.

For all that, our bishop is sort of keeping an eye on things, in the new ACNA. But I doubt if the ACA/ ACC/ APCK etc, had come marching in, lock step, it would have made much of an impact.

GKC

 

[jay29]

does your brother really believe in all of the beliefs of the Christian faith? i am not being rude, but i really believe there are those people who have their own private beliefs and fill the pews every sunday morning because they are expected to or to fulfill a social need.
for someone with a PH.D it is nice to know that he still goes to church and doesn’t feel he is so intelligent that he doesn’t need to go to church because he is atheist or whatever.

I know many Catholics who go to Mass just because Catholics go to Mass on Sunday. They don’t care about the teachings of the Faith. Go to Mass, no confession at all, and that is it. Many Catholics are pro-choice and don’t see a thing wrong with that. It’s sad really how much power Satan has and people don’t have a clue.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Those who would run to Rome have already done so long ago. I believe most will run into the ACNA; maybe a few into the Continuers.

Don’t be so sure. I spoke with a very high-up bishop who joined the ACNA but is considering himself becoming Roman Catholic and he is going to Mass regularly participating in everything except communion. And there are Anglicans I’ve read about online in many blogs who went to Rome. There are and will always be people coming to the Catholic Church. It’s not like there’s a fixed amount of Anglicans who would have already converted already. There’s no quota.

The ACNA will have a familiar smell to it for many former Episcopalians who want a conservative province. Keep in mind that 22 out of 28 dioceses in the ACNA don’t ordain women but 6 do including Pittsburgh, a big member considering Bob Duncan is the archbishop. I have spoken with people in my diocese here of San Joaquin and they are reluctant to promise “it won’t ever happen here” with regard to W.O. I visited a service at our local Anglican church not long ago and the sermon mentioned a tone of “eventually we might get a bishop who will allow WO” etc. Over in Africa there are several dioceses lately that started ordaining women. Africa is the gold standard for conservative theology. It’s kind of like in politics the old saying, “once California does it, everybody will do it.” I hope they don’t copy our state, we’re bankrupt! LOL But my point is that if even AFRICA has given way, it’s only a matter of time.

The Anglican Communion is too open to social justice and the norms of secular society IMO. They always have been to some degree because the Church of England was a partly secular royal institution and bishops were nominated by prime ministers, etc. Anglicanism has always been greatly informed by the secular culture. Roman Catholicism is the antithesis. The RCC does nothing but anger every secular institution and media outlet with their policies.

I think the high church people will, by and large, become Roman Catholic or Orthodox. The people that just refuse to stomach the papacy will go Orthodox. The people who are open to the papacy to Rome. The more low church folks will go evangelical to all these other protestant groups. And a great many will be content to join ACNA also until it eventually becomes a slightly more conservative Episcopal Church Reloaded 2.0…

I predict that in the next ten-twenty years this ACNA will have huge, major splits due to W.O. Ordaining women is heretical and absurd and it will be the toxic waste that spoils the soup…

Another thing to consider is that there are not that many continuing Anglican churches in the U.S. There are none even remotely close to where I live and in some areas the same is true. And there are not many Orthodox churches out west here either. That leaves Rome. Add in EWTN and Catholic Answers and Catholic media and you have great possibilities that many Anglicans will still convert to the RCC…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I know many Catholics who go to Mass just because Catholics go to Mass on Sunday. They don’t care about the teachings of the Faith. Go to Mass, no confession at all, and that is it. Many Catholics are pro-choice and don’t see a thing wrong with that. It’s sad really how much power Satan has and people don’t have a clue.

You’re right, sadly, Jay. Your signature quote is quite powerful and succinct, befitting of the age we live in! Satan finds a weakness in everybody. He’s after me all the time. And in the age of moral relativism, he’s penetrating the hearts of people with a renewed vigor.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I know many Catholics who go to Mass just because Catholics go to Mass on Sunday. They don’t care about the teachings of the Faith. Go to Mass, no confession at all, and that is it. Many Catholics are pro-choice and don’t see a thing wrong with that. It’s sad really how much power Satan has and people don’t have a clue.

yes, i know a few myself. i guess they think that just by sitting there every Sunday, they will get to Heaven. i have recently made an acquaintance at the catholic church i attend.
she made the comment to me that there is nothing worse than an unwanted baby which made me think that she is pro-choice. she also remarked once about hoping there will be female priests in the future. since i am a new Catholic, i was sad to hear this. i try not to associate too much with Catholics who don’t seem to agree with the teachings of the Church. i am polite, but since i am a recent convert, i don’t want anyone to lead me astray. there are different groups within the Catholic Church i think and those with liberal views are hoping that since Vatican II, the Church will someday go further to the left and then there are those who want to go back further to the right. at least the Catholic Church has a strong head, the Pope. i wish the Archbishops of Canterbury could have been stronger leaders over the years.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Are these people nuts? It’s one thing to have sinners in a Church. It’s 10x worse to teach blasphemy to the believers.
**
Episcopal Presiding Bishop: Individual Salvation is ‘heresy,idolatry’**

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=34091&wf=rsscol

Episcopal Bishop Barbara Harris Denies Sacrament of Marriage

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=34090&wf=rsscol
**
Anglicans on Brink of Schism **

ncregister.com/daily/anglicans_on_brink_of_schism/​

If I was Episcopalian or Anglican, I would be running for the door, right into the Catholic Church. What nonsense.

1. Katherine Jefferts Schori’s comments have been discussed elsewhere on these blogs. Taking the two quotes that were brought up, I understand exactly what she was saying, which is basically the same thing I’ve been saying for years: pop-evangelicalism tends towards Pelagianism.
2. What’s new about this? Look at the 39 Articles in the back of the Book of Common Prayer. Anglicans since Edward 6 have ALWAYS denied that Marriage is a sacrament.
3. Anglicans have been on the brink of schism since timetime of Elizabeth 1.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

yes, i know a few myself. i guess they think that just by sitting there every Sunday, they will get to Heaven. i have recently made an acquaintance at the catholic church i attend.
she made the comment to me that there is nothing worse than an unwanted baby which made me think that she is pro-choice. she also remarked once about hoping there will be female priests in the future. since i am a new Catholic, i was sad to hear this. i try not to associate too much with Catholics who don’t seem to agree with the teachings of the Church. i am polite, but since i am a recent convert, i don’t want anyone to lead me astray. there are different groups within the Catholic Church i think and those with liberal views are hoping that since Vatican II, the Church will someday go further to the left and then there are those who want to go back further to the right. at least the Catholic Church has a strong head, the Pope. i wish the Archbishops of Canterbury could have been stronger leaders over the years.

And those nay-sayers that think the RCC will eventually have lady pastors, transgender deacons, female popes, married priests, a total rejection of past teachings on abortion, euthanasia, contraception, and marriage are all in la-la land. They’re an anomoly to me because they don’t seem to believe the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and with the papacy, college of cardinals, sacred tradition, holy scriptures, and common sense, the Holy Spirit guides and protects the Church like a hawk from these silly secular innovations. The Church isn’t going to change, period. Why these liberals don’t just hit the bricks and join the Episcopal Church or maybe Universalism or something is beyond me.

 

[GKC]

1. Katherine Jefferts Schori’s comments have been discussed elsewhere on these blogs. Taking the two quotes that were brought up, I understand exactly what she was saying, which is basically the same thing I’ve been saying for years: pop-evangelicalism tends towards Pelagianism.
2. What’s new about this? Look at the 39 Articles in the back of the Book of Common Prayer. Anglicans since Edward 6 have ALWAYS denied that Marriage is a sacrament.
3. Anglicans have been on the brink of schism since timetime of Elizabeth 1.

No to #2, not so much to #3. You do realize the articles are not binding on any Anglican, save (technically) the ordinands of the CoE? And a couple of other Provinces that declared them normative, during the recent unpleasantness? Ask in my parish, you will be told: seven sacraments, two Dominical.

Generalizing about Anglicans is generally a futile effort.

GKC