Total Consecration and idolatry

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St Gemma and Mary:

“Whoever could have imagined,” thus she wrote "that this evening my dear Mother would have come to see me? It was not even to be thought of because I believed that my bad conduct would prevent it. Yet she had compassion on me. Her presence quickly put me in a state of recollection, and then, as often happens, I lost my senses, and I found myself, I think, with Our Lady of Sorrows. Oh, what happiness! What sweetness of heart I felt during those wonderful moments! Let whoever can, explain it. It seemed to me, after some moments of emotion, that she took me in her lap and made me rest my head on her shoulder and keep it there for a short time. My heart during that time felt perfectly happy and contented without any other desire. “Do you love only me?” she asked me now and then. “Oh, no!” I answered her, “before You I love someone else.” “And who is it?” She said, pretending not to know. “It is one so dear to me! More dear than all else. I love Him so much that I would now, this moment, give my life for Him; for His sake I regard not my life.” “But tell me, who is it?” she asked me “If You, Mother, had come the evening before last, You would have seen Him with me. I instead go to Him every day [she meant in Holy Communion], and I would go more often if I could. But do You know Mother,” I continued, “why I do so? Because I know that He wishes to see, by His keeping so far away from me, if I am capable of ceasing to love Him. But quite the contrary, the farther He keeps away, the more I feel drawn to Him! And she repeated: “Tell me, who is He?” “No,” I replied, “I won’t tell thee. If only You have seen Him, Mother! He is like Thee in beauty; His hair is the color of Yours.” Mother, then embracing me, seemed to say again: “But my child, tell me of whom are you speaking.” I then exclaimed aloud, “Do You not understand me? Of Jesus, I speak of Jesus.” “Repeat it still louder,” she said. Then, smiling, she looked at me and pressed me closely to herself, saying, “Yes, love Him, but love Him greatly; Listen well! Love Him alone!” “Don’t be afraid,” I said to her, “no one in the world shall taste my affections! Jesus alone.” Again she pressed me to her; she seemed to kiss me on the forehead. Then I awoke [meaning that she came out of the ecstasy], and I found myself stretched on the floor with the crucifix near me.”
stgemmagalgani.com/
 
Mary always leads us to God 🙂
I know I guess I am stuck in boldly approach the throne mode like the scriptures say…Monica, I have been doing it longer that you are old.It worked fine all those years…Like a little boy going into his father’s den…I know I’m lovingly greeted and loved even if it’s showing up to say I sorry…Grace and peace to you, dearly beloved of our Lord…
 
Hi Hiskid1973 🙂
I know I guess I am stuck in boldly approach the throne mode like the scriptures say…Monica, I have been doing it longer that you are old.It worked fine all those years…Like a little boy going into his father’s den…I know I’m lovingly greeted and loved even if it’s showing up to say I sorry…Grace and peace to you, dearly beloved of our Lord…
Of course you should realize, the Throne of God, the Seat of Wisdom, the Heavenly Ark of the Covenant, is Mary 😉

And if you are His kid, shouldn’t you at the very least say hi once in a while to His most precious daughter, His beloved mother, and His most faithful wife, which makes her your mom?
 
Hi Hiskid1973 🙂

Of course you should realize, the Throne of God, the Seat of Wisdom, the Heavenly Ark of the Covenant, is Mary 😉
Now those are some things I never knew…And the scriptures are for each of them ?
BTW I have no problem calling her blessed or highly esteeming her…

His most faithful wife ???
 
I know I guess I am stuck in boldly approach the throne mode like the scriptures say…Monica, I have been doing it longer that you are old.It worked fine all those years…Like a little boy going into his father’s den…I know I’m lovingly greeted and loved even if it’s showing up to say I sorry…Grace and peace to you, dearly beloved of our Lord…
Devotion to Mary doesn’t make our love for God colder, neither does it take away the trust we have in Him… St Louis de Montfort, who taught devotion to Mary and the Total Consecration, had the motto “God alone”. That suggests that there’s no competition between Jesus and Mary… we love her for His sake. It’s a great thing to ask Mary, “help me to love Jesus more”. That is the Catholic approach…
Now those are some things I never knew…And the scriptures are for each of them ?
BTW I have no problem calling her blessed or highly esteeming her…

His most faithful wife ???
Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit…

please watch the video I linked, it describes the passages in the Bible that point to Mary! 🙂
 
Devotion to Mary doesn’t make our love for God colder, neither does it take away the trust we have in Him… St Louis de Montfort, who taught devotion to Mary and the Total Consecration, had the motto “God alone”. That suggests that there’s no competition between Jesus and Mary… we love her for His sake. It’s a great thing to ask Mary, “help me to love Jesus more”. That is the Catholic approach…Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit…

please watch the video I linked, it describes the passages in the Bible that point to Mary! 🙂
Ok I watched it…I know there are types in the bible but some of that was a stretch…One I’ll mention, Jesus gives His mother to John to care for…It’s pretty obvious He is speaking to John and saying behold your mother not to others, like she was their mother also…And you know who we prots feel the woman represents in Rev. …But hey believe it the way you want to…I could probably come up with some more if I looked hard enough…That’s why I think it’s scary putting trust in so much apart from what was divinely inspired from the original apostles…The things that get patched together after the fact seem like they get the response us prots get when we present things that you church doesn’t believe…

Hey I’ll stop posting and distracting your thread…It’s just down right scary some of the things I read re: Mary…
 
Ok I watched it…I know there are types in the bible but some of that was a stretch…One I’ll mention, Jesus gives His mother to John to care for…It’s pretty obvious He is speaking to John and saying behold your mother not to others, like she was their mother also…And you know who we prots feel the woman represents in Rev. …But hey believe it the way you want to…I could probably come up with some more if I looked hard enough…That’s why I think it’s scary putting trust in so much apart from what was divinely inspired from the original apostles…The things that get patched together after the fact seem like they get the reponse us prots get when we present things…
Jesus is the Word made flesh and His words are Truth. No stretch is made on His Words. I consider it a command when He speaks. Today is the Feast of the Transfiguration. When the Father said, " this my Son…", was it not a command?
 
Jesus is the Word made flesh and His words are Truth. No stretch is made on His Words. I consider it a command when He speaks. Today is the Feast of the Transfiguration. When the Father said, " this my Son…", was it not a command?
We’ll I see it more as a herald like an announcement…He said in whom He is well pleased…

OK, here are the verses:

26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then he saith to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

I guess you could read into that what you want to hear but I don’t see Him say she is the mother to anyone else…I have no problem saying she is the most spiritually mature sister in the Lord I have…She is incredibly blessed among all women and an example to all…But remember Jesus gave us am example of how to pray, I just
follow that example…I can’t be faulted for making that a pattern for my prayers…peace to you…
 
We’ll I see it more as a herald like an announcement…He said in whom He is well pleased…

OK, here are the verses:

26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then he saith to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

I guess you could read into that what you want to hear but I don’t see Him say she is the mother to anyone else…I have no problem saying she is the most spiritually mature sister in the Lord I have…She is incredibly blessed among all women and an example to all…But remember Jesus gave us am example of how to pray, I just
follow that example…I can’t be faulted for making that a pattern for my prayers…peace to you…
Don’t fault you at all, brother. The Our Father is the perfect prayer as is the mass and the Church teaches that. If you ever come to mass or divine liturgy, you don’t even have to know the hail Mary. ;). Peace be with you too, Samson.
 
Don’t fault you at all, brother. The Our Father is the perfect prayer as is the mass and the Church teaches that. If you ever come to mass or divine liturgy, you don’t even have to know the hail Mary. ;). Peace be with you too, Samson.
I would love to visit one of your Mass sometime…I don’t know anyone where I currently live and not the bold type to just show up alone and muddle my way through…I will be moving at the end of this month and we are trusting God to open a door as our lease runs out on Aug.31…Maybe I’ll have a Catholic neighbor or two…
BTW Samson, how long is your hair…I am an old hippie leftover who just recently
got rid of my long hair and ponytail…
 
I would love to visit one of your Mass sometime…I don’t know anyone where I currently live and not the bold type to just show up alone and muddle my way through…I will be moving at the end of this month and we are trusting God to open a door as our lease runs out on Aug.31…Maybe I’ll have a Catholic neighbor or two…
BTW Samson, how long is your hair…I am an old hippie leftover who just recently
got rid of my long hair and ponytail…
Bald as a que ball, hence the name,lol. It’s nice to see your open about it. My dad was Baptist and a supporter of the Church. The kind of guy that would give you the shirt off his back. We didn’t grow up with divisions in religion. Just stop by any Catholic Church and see when is the next mass, visit, pray on it. I’ve had some wonderful things happen in a silent church, just visiting. If you need help finding one, feel free to im me. Anywhere in the world, it is happening at any given time. I’ve walk into church’s out of town, got a cell #, and have had a priest there within an hour to hear me for this or that. God is good.
 
Bald as a que ball, hence the name,lol. It’s nice to see your open about it. My dad was Baptist and a supporter of the Church. The kind of guy that would give you the shirt off his back. We didn’t grow up with divisions in religion. Just stop by any Catholic Church and see when is the next mass, visit, pray on it. I’ve had some wonderful things happen in a silent church, just visiting. If you need help finding one, feel free to im me. Anywhere in the world, it is happening at any given time. I’ve walk into church’s out of town, got a cell #, and have had a priest there within an hour to hear me for this or that. God is good.
Like my Catholic neighbor said to me…I know you love Jesus, It’s all about Jesus.
I have no issues with my fellow Catholic brothers and sisters…We all have wheat and tares around us…We all have pew warmers who do their duty and leave and we all have those who are passionate about Christ…I just have issues with doctrine and dogma that are scary…But hey, we see through the glass darkly when we see Him face to face, we will be like Him…Grace and peace to you dear one in Christ.

Man we’re getting on a rabbit trail…Sorry Sis Monica…Back to topic…
 
Ok I watched it…I know there are types in the bible but some of that was a stretch…One I’ll mention, Jesus gives His mother to John to care for…It’s pretty obvious He is speaking to John and saying behold your mother not to others, like she was their mother also…And you know who we prots feel the woman represents in Rev. …But hey believe it the way you want to…I could probably come up with some more if I looked hard enough…That’s why I think it’s scary putting trust in so much apart from what was divinely inspired from the original apostles…The things that get patched together after the fact seem like they get the response us prots get when we present things that you church doesn’t believe…

Hey I’ll stop posting and distracting your thread…It’s just down right scary some of the things I read re: Mary…
Hi HisKid,

I’ll try to reply to some of your points… when Jesus was talking to John, I don’t think that He was only talking to John. I mean…everything in the Bible has spiritual significance. Why would it be included how Jesus told John to take care of Mary? - UNLESS it had a higher purpose… well He gave Mary to John as his Mother, but also to all of us - hence the word “beloved disciple”.

I don’t think at all that the video is a stretch… it represents historical Christianity: ie: what Christians have always believed. You said, “it’s scary putting trust in so much apart from what was divinely inspired from the original apostles”… but how do you know that your interpretation of Scripture is what the Apostles meant? we know that the Catholic teaching comes from the Apostles, because it was also taught by the early Church Fathers who knew the Apostles. They all believed that Mary was sinless, was assumed into Heaven, is our Mother, perpetual virgin, etc.

God bless
 
Hope you don’t mind Monica. Just wanted put put things in a different perspective for those who haven’t experienced our faith. Catholics drop to theirs knees in every mass, adoration for what is due God. Every knees bends, every movement is in worship of our Lord. Everything the priest does at mass has a prayer or meaning. I have heard that Scott Hahn wrote a book called The Lamb’s Supper that is very informative about what the mass is. I deally we are aware and doing these in worship of our Lord Jesus Christ. Some may only see this discussion of Mary and not see what we do in church and practice. It is very intense worship, though you can miss it if you don’t look closely and I mean not at the folks in the pews, but at the big picture. To have a devotion and trust in our Lady is not taking away from God. Samson
 
Hope you don’t mind Monica. Just wanted put put things in a different perspective for those who haven’t experienced our faith. Catholics drop to theirs knees in every mass, adoration for what is due God. Every knees bends, every movement is in worship of our Lord. Everything the priest does at mass has a prayer or meaning. I have heard that Scott Hahn wrote a book called The Lamb’s Supper that is very informative about what the mass is. I deally we are aware and doing these in worship of our Lord Jesus Christ. Some may only see this discussion of Mary and not see what we do in church and practice. It is very intense worship, though you can miss it if you don’t look closely and I mean not at the folks in the pews, but at the big picture. To have a devotion and trust in our Lady is not taking away from God. Samson
that’s a good point! 🙂
 
How can one go to Christ through Mary, when the Bible says we can go directly to Christ?:

“Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.” Hebrews 4:16.

Also, how can Mary have divine power in herself to help us come closer to Christ or such? Except indirectly, i.e. through her intercession to God for us?
 
One of the hardest things for most of our Protestant brothers and sisters to understand is the Communion of Saints, and the continuing spiritual connection between the Church on earth and the Church in heaven. Yet Scripture clearly shows us that there continues to be a spiritual connection between the living and the dead. The book of Revelation depicts the saints surrounding the throne of God, perfectly aware of what is going on during the persecution of the Church. Moses and Elijah appear on the mount at the Transfiguration actually talking to Jesus, and are seen as alive enough for the Apostles to want to build tents for them. Furthermore, angels occupy the same spiritual realm as the souls who have gone before us, and Protestants don’t have any problem believing that they interact with humans.

But it must be remembered that all of them only have that ability to be connected to us and the power to help us, because it is permitted by God. They have no power on their own. Mary is the same. Her power comes from God. She has no divine power of her own, as you have erroneously stated. That would be heresy. And yes, her role IS intercessory, as you stated.

Why do we ask the intercession of Mary and the other Saints? For the same reason we ask others to pray for us on earth. We are told to pray for one another. But that does not eliminate our direct prayers to God. We do it in addition to our direct prayers because we are told to. The bonds of physical death do not break the spiritual connections with those on earth. We are not merely bodily beings, we are spiritual beings, we do not cease to be aware just because our bodies are dead. Indeed, because we have shed the confines of temporal bodies, we are most likely more aware of things than ever, having shed the limits of time and space.

So Mary and the saints can help us draw closer to Christ because they can intercede for us, and also pray for us, just as the fellowship we have on earth can help us become closer to Christ. Mary, however, is especially close to Christ, as she was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit when she conceived Him, carried Him in her body for 9 months, gave birth to Him, and raised Him–all in obedience to God, her Savior. What bond is there that is stronger between mother and child? Even the marriage bond is severed at death. But a mother is always a mother.

Now to address a concern many have voiced. The Communion of Saints and the ability of the saints to intercede for us is permitted by God, and is shown in the Scriptures, as above. But it is not the same type of contact with the dead that is forbidden in Scripture. We are not to attempt to contact the dead, and we are not to try to have the dead contact us. That is absolutely forbidden.
 
One of the hardest things for most of our Protestant brothers and sisters to understand is the Communion of Saints, and the continuing spiritual connection between the Church on earth and the Church in heaven. Yet Scripture clearly shows us that there continues to be a spiritual connection between the living and the dead. The book of Revelation depicts the saints surrounding the throne of God, perfectly aware of what is going on during the persecution of the Church. Moses and Elijah appear on the mount at the Transfiguration actually talking to Jesus, and are seen as alive enough for the Apostles to want to build tents for them. Furthermore, angels occupy the same spiritual realm as the souls who have gone before us, and Protestants don’t have any problem believing that they interact with humans.

But it must be remembered that all of them only have that ability to be connected to us and the power to help us, because it is permitted by God. They have no power on their own. Mary is the same. Her power comes from God. She has no divine power of her own, as you have erroneously stated. That would be heresy. And yes, her role IS intercessory, as you stated.

Why do we ask the intercession of Mary and the other Saints? For the same reason we ask others to pray for us on earth. We are told to pray for one another. But that does not eliminate our direct prayers to God. We do it in addition to our direct prayers because we are told to. The bonds of physical death do not break the spiritual connections with those on earth. We are not merely bodily beings, we are spiritual beings, we do not cease to be aware just because our bodies are dead. Indeed, because we have shed the confines of temporal bodies, we are most likely more aware of things than ever, having shed the limits of time and space.

So Mary and the saints can help us draw closer to Christ because they can intercede for us, and also pray for us, just as the fellowship we have on earth can help us become closer to Christ. Mary, however, is especially close to Christ, as she was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit when she conceived Him, carried Him in her body for 9 months, gave birth to Him, and raised Him–all in obedience to God, her Savior. What bond is there that is stronger between mother and child? Even the marriage bond is severed at death. But a mother is always a mother.

Now to address a concern many have voiced. The Communion of Saints and the ability of the saints to intercede for us is permitted by God, and is shown in the Scriptures, as above. But it is not the same type of contact with the dead that is forbidden in Scripture. We are not to attempt to contact the dead, and we are not to try to have the dead contact us. That is absolutely forbidden.
I do believe in The Communion of Saints, and that one can ask people in heaven for their intercession.

But does The Communion of Saints mean we should pray directly to them, i.e. directly asking for Mary’s / another Saint’s protection, or e.g. rather ask for her intercession that God would give us protection.
 
I do believe in The Communion of Saints, and that one can ask people in heaven for their intercession.

But does The Communion of Saints mean we should pray directly to them, i.e. directly asking for Mary’s / another Saint’s protection, or e.g. rather ask for her intercession that God would give us protection.
We ask for their intercession. For example, if we ask a Saint to pray for a healing for us, it is not the Saint who heals, but God who does the healing through the intercession of the Saint. Saints have no power on their own.
 
I have been preparing to make the total consecration this New Year’s Day, but have struggled with some of St. Louis de Montfort’s terminology. Thank you for this discussion; it has helped clarify.
Thank you also for the link to the video on Mary in the Scriptures (one of the first posts). I am reading Scott Hahn’s Hail, Holy Queen and the video brings it together beautifully.
 
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