total inerrancy is Catholic dogma

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[Titus]
{3:10} Avoid a man who is a heretic, after the first and second correction,
{3:11} knowing that one who is like this has been subverted, and that he offends; for he has been condemned by his own judgment.

There are legitimate questions on interpretation, for example, as to which points of Scripture are literal and which are figurative. And there are some interesting questions about the Canon, and the limits of Biblical scholarship to question the Canon. But anyone who claims that Scripture contains outright error is commits the sin of heresy, contrary to the definitive teaching of several Popes.

“But although these words of our predecessor leave no room for doubt or dispute, it grieves us to find that not only men outside, but even children of the Catholic Church - nay, what is a peculiar sorrow to us, even clerics and professors of sacred learning - who in their own conceit either openly repudiate or at least attack in secret the Church’s teaching on this point.” (Pope Benedict XV, Spiritus Paraclitus, n. 18 )

“Divine inspiration extends to every part of the Bible without the slightest exception, and that no error can occur in the inspired text…” (Pope Benedict XV, Spiritus Paraclitus, n. 21)

“…they put forward again the opinion, already often condemned, which asserts that immunity from error extends only to those parts of the Bible that treat of God or of moral and religious matters.” (Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis, n. 22).

What if Pope Benedict 16 had recently published an encyclical with the same statements in Pope Benedict 15’s encyclical? Why are the definitive teachings and clear condemnations of past Popes treated with such disregard? Is it because we give more weight to the majority opinion, than to the teaching of the Church? Or is it because we have progressively less confidence in a teaching of the Magisterium the older that it is?
RESPONSE:

They are treated with disregard because they have been proven to be in error. For example:

1 Sam 17:49-50 David killed Goliath of Gath.

2 Sam 21 :19 Elhanan killed Goliath of Gath.

Or are they both “inerrant”?😃
 
…The total inerrancy of Scripture is the ancient and traditional belief of the Church; all possibility of error is necessarily excluded…
That which God intends to communicate to us in Scripture is entirely inerrant.

I don’t believe that God intends to communicate to us that the stars sprouted mouths and sang arias when he created the universe.
 
Thanks for the posts. I collected the quotes and put them in my blog.
 
That which God intends to communicate to us in Scripture is entirely inerrant.
I don’t believe that God intends to communicate to us that the stars sprouted mouths and sang arias when he created the universe.
Finally…short, sweet and to the point. I love it. 👍
 
[Titus]
{3:10} Avoid a man who is a heretic, after the first and second correction,
{3:11} knowing that one who is like this has been subverted, and that he offends; for he has been condemned by his own judgment.
  1. You’re not a “Catholic” theologian. You don’t have the credentials to make the claims you make.
  2. Quite a few Catholic apologists and theologians have sharply rebuked or debunked your “theories”.
I would strongly suggest that any reader who is troubled by Mr. Conte’s magisterial pronouncements to 1) Do a little web surfing on your own behalf; 2) Actually read any and all documents he “quotes” – in their full context; and 3) If you still have questions, contact the Diocese of Palm Beach, Florida – and see if THEY recognize Mr. Conte as legitimate.
 
I thought that the teaching of Vatican II was quite clear on this issue, but I may be mistaken. Here is a quote from Dei Verbum:

“Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings (5) for the sake of salvation.”

Is the emboldened statement above not a caveat, allowing for the possibility that not all scientific truth (for example) is depicted in the scriptures?

In brotherly love,

Clement
 
There Are Some Clear Errors in the Bible. This final objection, that there are
clear errors in the Bible, is either stated or implied by most of those who deny
inerrancy, and for many of them the conviction that there are some actual errors in
Scripture is a major factor in persuading them to challenge the doctrine of inerrancy.
In every case, the first answer that should be made to this objection is to ask
where such errors are. In which specific verse or verses do these errors occur? It is
surprising how frequently one finds that this objection is made by people who have
little or no idea where the specific errors are, but who believe there are errors because
others have told them so.
In other cases, however, people will mention one or more specific passages where,
they claim, there is a false statement in Scripture. In these cases, it is important that
we look at the biblical text itself, and look at it very closely. If we believe that the
Bible is indeed inerrant, we should be eager and certainly not afraid to inspect these
texts in minute detail. In fact, our expectation will be that close inspection will show
there to be no error at all. Once again it is surprising how often it turns out that a
careful reading just of the English text of the passage in question will bring to light
one or more possible solutions to the difficulty.
In a few passages, no solution to the difficulty may be immediately apparent from
reading the English text. At that point it is helpful to consult some commentaries on
the text. Both Augustine (A.D. 354–430) and John Calvin (1509–64), along with many
more recent commentators, have taken time to deal with most of the alleged “problem
texts” and to suggest plausible solutions to them. Furthermore some writers have
made collections of all the most difficult texts and have provided suggested answers
for them.
There are a few texts where a knowledge of Hebrew or Greek may be necessary to
find a solution, and those who do not have firsthand access to these languages may
have to find answers either from a more technical commentary or by asking someone
who does have this training. Of course, our understanding of Scripture is never
perfect, and this means that there may be cases where we will be unable to find a
solution to a difficult passage at the present time. This may be because the linguistic,
historical, or contextual evidence we need to understand the passage correctly is
presently unknown to us. This should not trouble us in a small number of passages so
long as the overall pattern of our investigation of these passages has shown that there
is, in fact, no error where one has been alleged.
But while we must allow the possibility of being unable to solve a particular
problem, it should also be stated that there are many evangelical Bible scholars today
who will say that they do not presently know of any problem texts for which there is
no satisfactory solution. It is possible, of course, that some such texts could be called
to their attention in the future, but during the past fifteen years or so of controversy
over biblical inerrancy, no such “unsolved” text has been brought to their attention.
Finally, a historical perspective on this question is helpful. There are no really
“new” problems in Scripture. The Bible in its entirety is over 1,900 years old, and the
alleged “problem texts” have been there all along. Yet throughout the history of the
church there has been a firm belief in the inerrancy of Scripture in the sense in which
it is defined in this chapter. Moreover, for these hundreds of years highly competent
biblical scholars have read and studied those problem texts and still have found no
difficulty in holding to inerrancy. This should give us confidence that the solutions to
these problems are available and that belief in inerrancy is entirely consistent with a
lifetime of detailed attention to the text of Scripture.
C. Problems With Denying Inerrancy
  1. If We Deny Inerrancy, a Serious Moral Problem Confronts Us: May We
    Imitate God and Intentionally Lie in Small Matters Also? This is similar to the
    point made in response to objection #4, above, but here it applies not only to those
    who espouse objection #4 but also more broadly to all who deny inerrancy. Ephesians
    5:1 tells us to be imitators of God. But a denial of inerrancy that still claims that the
    words of Scripture are God-breathed words necessarily implies that God intentionally
    spoke falsely to us in some of the less central affirmations of Scripture. But if this is
    right for God to do, how can it be wrong for us? Such a line of reasoning would, if we
    believed it, exert strong pressure on us to begin to speak untruthfully in situations
    where that might seem to help us communicate better, and so forth. This position
    would be a slippery slope with ever-increasing negative results in our own lives.
  2. **If Inerrancy Is Denied, We Begin to Wonder If We Can Really Trust God in
    Anything He Says. **Once we become convinced that God has spoken falsely to us in
    some minor matters in Scripture, then we realize that God is capable of speaking
    falsely to us. This will have a detrimental effect on our ability to take God at his word
    and trust him completely or obey him fully in the rest of Scripture. We will begin to
    disobey initially those sections of Scripture that we least wish to obey, and to distrust
    initially those sections that we are least inclined to trust. But such a procedure will
    eventually increase, to the great detriment of our spiritual lives. Of course, such a
    decline in trust and obedience to Scripture may not necessarily follow in the life of
    every individual who denies inerrancy, but this will certainly be the general pattern,
    and it will be the pattern exhibited over the course of a generation that is taught to
    deny inerrancy.
  3. If We Deny Inerrancy, We Essentially Make Our Own Human Minds a
    Higher Standard of Truth Than God’s Word Itself.
    We use our minds to pass
    judgment on some sections of God’s Word and pronounce them to be in error. But
    this is in effect to say that we know truth more certainly and more accurately than
    God’s Word does (or than God does), at least in these areas. Such a procedure,
    making our own minds to be a higher standard of truth than God’s Word, is the root of
    all intellectual sin.
    4.** If We Deny Inerrancy, Then We Must Also Say That the Bible Is Wrong Not
    Only in Minor Details but in Some of Its Doctrines as Well.** A denial of inerrancy
    means that we say that the Bible’s teaching about the nature of Scripture and about
    the truthfulness and reliability of God’s words is also false. These are not minor
    details but are major doctrinal concerns in Scripture.
 
RESPONSE:

They are treated with disregard because they have been proven to be in error. For example:

1 Sam 17:49-50 David killed Goliath of Gath.

2 Sam 21 :19 Elhanan killed Goliath of Gath.

Or are they both “inerrant”?😃
They are talking of differnt Goliaths. For other “apparent” biblical contradictions and “errors”, see the Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Dr. Gleason Archer. Most of your problems with biblical texts will be resolved.
 
They are talking of differnt Goliaths. For other “apparent” biblical contradictions and “errors”, see the Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Dr. Gleason Archer. Most of your problems with biblical texts will be resolved.
Is that the source of the lengthy quote in the above post?
 
RESPONSE:

What a creative imagination! But you are still faced with the conflict of Saul dying by suicide, or Saul dying by **homocide **(Philistine or Amalekite, different tribes). Both cannot have happened.

OK Saul is mortally wounded but still alive ] by the Philistines.
He requests his armourbearer to finish him off by assisted suicide ]
His armourbearer refuses
Saul commits suicide
Amalekite lies to David thinking David will approve
David kills Amalekite
Where is the conflict in the scriptures ?
 
RESPONSE:

One should not “accept this dogma of total inerrancy” if the bible can be shown to contain errors. I’ve pointe one out above. There are many more. Perhaps another example would prove helpful.

Here we have a contradiction one chapter apart. Saul was fond of David and made him his armor-bearer. But after David slew Goliath, Then Saul and everyone else there didn’t know who he was.

Which is “inspired scripture”?

1 Sam 16:19-22

"Accordingly, Saul dispatched messengers to ask Jesse to send him his son David, who was with the flock. Then Jesse took five loaves of bread, a skin of wine, and a kid, and sent them to Saul by his son David. Thus David came to Saul and entered his service. Saul became very fond of him, made him his armor-bearer, and sent Jesse the message, “Allow David to remain in my service, for he meets with my approval.” (NAB)

1 Sam 17:48-51

"The Philistine then moved to meet David at close quarters, while David ran quickly toward the battle line in the direction of the Philistine. David put his hand into the bag and took out a stone, hurled it with the sling, and struck the Philistine on the forehead. The stone embedded itself in his brow, and he fell prostrate on the ground. (Thus David overcame the Philistine with sling and stone; he struck the Philistine mortally, and did it without a sword.) Then David ran and stood over him; with the Philistine’s own sword (which he drew from its sheath) he dispatched him and cut off his head.When they saw that their hero was dead, the Philistines took to flight. (NAB)

1 Sam 17:55-58

"When Saul saw David go out to meet the Philistine, he **asked his general Abner, “Abner, whose son is that youth?” Abner replied, "As truly as your majesty is alive, I have no idea."And the king said, “Find out whose son the lad is.” **So when David returned from slaying the Philistine, Abner took him and presented him to Saul. David was still holding the Philistine’s head. Saul then asked him, “Whose son are you, young man?” David replied, “I am the son of your servant Jesse of Bethlehem.” NAB)

Perhaps, I should steart a thread titled “Biblical Blunders and Contradictions” It would be a easy one to write; there are so many.
If one would read the passages, we can see that Saul is “very fond of” David and even made him his armor bearer. If one would assume that Saul immediately know him totally, then he/she would be interpreting the term “very fond of” (at least using the original language) to be equivalent in “knowing well.” In fact, later Saul asks about the father of David. One should easily see that “knowing” has different levels of connotation in the original language. For example, “knowing one’s spouse” could mean doing “marital act.”

To be able to see the true inerrant message, one has to deal with the literal interpretation of the passage(s). Here, literal is to be differentiated from the “literalist” interpretation. Literal has to deal finding the actual message that is sought to be conveyed by the writer to the intended audience.

As for the alleged contradictions within the Scriptures, I believe posting a website containing all the list would help all of us discern whether these are truly contradictions. In the end, we will all learn what the message is all about and not on how the account is made/written by the author.
 
They are talking of differnt Goliaths. For other “apparent” biblical contradictions and “errors”, see the Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties by Dr. Gleason Archer. Most of your problems with biblical texts will be resolved.
RESPONSE:

No. They are talking about the same one. Not just Goliath. Specifically “Goliath of Gath” fighting on the side of the Philistines.

JPM
 
RESPONSE:

Pius X’s personal opinion. Not an infallible teaching.
Response:

JP Marat’s personal opinion.
Authoritative value: None.

LS was not Pius X’s “personal opinion,” but rather a re-affirming of Catholic Dogma. Authoritative value: Highest.
 
QUOTE="All that is inspired is inerrant, for God does not inspire error. There are no exceptions for assertions in the Bible on history, geography, science, math, or any other subject. If Scripture asserts that it is true, then it is true. "

Dear Mr. Conte:

The above quote needs to be nuanced. Whether you are asserting that the bible teaches science, math, history, etc. in errantly or not, that is how SOME may interpret your statement.

This is why we must be careful to read Magisterial teachings in their historical context and NARROWLY. The Church is always careful not to issue broad statements of teaching. Each word is carefully selected and debated so as to be clear and precise. For this reason, we cannot read into Magisterial teaching things that are NOT taught. One also needs to interpret prior Magisterial documents in the light of later documents which may or may not provide further clarity. In terms of the Magisterium’s teaching on the inerrancy of Scripture, one must also study “Paraclitus Spiritu” (Pope Benedict XV), “Das Afflante Spiritu” (Pope Pius XII), “Dei Verbum” (Vatican II), the “The Document of the Pontifical Biblical Commission” published with “The Address of His Holiness John Paul II on the Interpretation of the Bible in the Church" (1993).” and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” (1994),

The modern “science” of biblical criticism traces its roots to the rationalist ideals of the eighteenth-century Enlightenment. Like their Protestant Reformation forefathers, these men rejected the authority of the Church’s Magisterium as the legitimate arbitrator of truth. While the Protestant Reformers placed that authority in “Sola Scriptura” and their own private interpretation of scripture, the “rationalists” went even further. “They deny that there is any such thing as revelation or inspiration, or Holy Scriptures at all (PD 1893, II, A).” Taking their cue from reliance on the scientific method then in vogue, they rejected anything that could not be independently proven from some outside, empirical source.

In refuting this error Pope Leo XIII restricted his remarks to the following two truths: #1. wrong and impermissible to narrowly define the Divine inspiration of Scripture so that it applies only to certain parts of God’s Word or to say that the sacred writer has erred. For this reason, those who say that the Holy Spirit’s inspiration of Scripture is limited to passages clearly teaching on faith or morals are clearly and totally mistaken.

#2. Simply because God used human instruments to write His Word, does not mean that these human instruments, not the Holy Spirit, might err. He further explains this by saying that by the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit, the human authors were so moved and impelled to write that, what they wrote was only what the Holy Spirit wished, and that, by His aid, they correctly understood, faithfully willed to record, and wrote in words expressly designed by the Holy Spirit to convey infallible truth.

That is all Pope Leo taught. He did NOT teach what your post about science, history etc SEEMS to suggest. What he said and meant was that since there is only one truth - God’s truth - whatever truth the Holy Spirit wished to convey was conveyed without error. He did NOT teach that everything in Scripture is in errantly true. That is reading into the Magisterium’s teaching something it does not assert.

“Dei Verbum” and subsequent curial documents (the Catechism and the PBC’s 1993document on interpretation of scripture) clarifies this point. Article 11, Paragraph 3 of “Dei Verbum” (emphasis added) states: “…we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture, firmly, faithfully and without error, teach that truth which God, FOR THE SAKE OF OUR SALVATION, wished to see confided to the sacred Scriptures.…”

In his commentary on Dei Verbum (Bea, Augustine Cardinal. 1967. The Word of God and Mankind. Chicago: Franciscan Herald Press. 188 - 191). The Cardinal (who was one of the co-chairs of the committee appointed by Pope John Paul XXIII to revise the original draft of “Dei Verbum”) explains why this statement of Vatican II is NOT contradicting Pope Leo XIII’s condemnation of the position that the truth of scripture applies to “faith and morals” only. Cardinal Bea continues by stating that in his view, there is, generally speaking, no limit to the inerrancy of Scripture, i.e. that it applies to everything the sacred writer, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, writes. This means that, in keeping with past teaching of the Magisterium, Scripture always presents a true account of events. Not that this true account of events offers man a complete, scientifically researched account, but that nothing asserted in Scripture contradicts those facts (189-190).

An example of this is the story of Jonah and the whale. Nothing in God’s nature of being the All-Powerful Creator of the created order precludes His causing Jonah to be swallowed by a whale and spat up on shore. This could be, on an ontological level at least, a true account of the events of the story. Of course, it is far more likely that here we have an unessential detail of the story which is really about, i.e. this is what the Spirit is asserting, God saves whomever He Wills, and it is futile to try to thwart that Divine Will.

Thus the Church does not teach about truth of the secular sciences (history, geography, mathematics etc). It restricts its teaching to those truths that CANNOT be taught by science - as we understand it - for science cannot teach about things that cannot be empirically demonstrated or “scientifically proven” e.g., that God exists. (All that I am saying is that #1. Science cannot prove in the sense that 2 + 2 = 4 God’s existence, and that #2. Science cannot prove in the same sense that God does not exist).

Because God is the author of creation and all truth, nothing “proven” by science contradicts the Truths taught in errantly by the Church’s Magisterium and Scripture. There is more to be said on this subject, but my purpose here is to simply clarify the Church’s teaching so that it is NOT made to say things it does not.

Corry
Masters level student at Franciscan University of Steubenville with 15 hours of professional training in Scripture and its interpretation.
 
To those who have replied to this thread:

There seems to be some confusion on what constitutes an “ex cathedra” statement and its role in in errantly setting forth Catholic teaching.

As I recall my ecclesiology class, formally, “ex cathedra” (from the chair) only applies to statements issued by Pope Leo XIII and his successors. Formally speaking it does not apply to statements issued by Popes prior to Pope Leo or to Church councils.

As I recall, there have only been two formal “ex cathedra” statements in the entire history of the Church. The first was issued by Pope Leo XIII (later confirmed by Vatican I and Vatican II) himself in defining the dogma of papal infallibility. The second was issued by Pope Pius XII when he defined the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.

The various statements of Church councils on interpretation of Sacred Scripture are NOT “ex cathedra” statements. This does not mean that they are capable of error. They are in errant NOT because they are “ex cathedra” statements, but because they represent the consistent, constant and unfailing teaching of the Church’s Magisterial authority. This is, in reality, a minor point because both, ultimately, arrive at the same point - an in errant teaching that Catholics must believe as a matter of faith as Vatican I’s statement of infallibility makes clear.

As far as the issue of translations in so far as it applies to interpretation of Scripture, Mr. Conte is correct. It is the original author in the original language that enjoys inerrancy. This point, and the question of possible error in the translation of Scripture is made by St. Augustine in a letter to St. Jerome which was quoted by Pope Leo XIII in his encyclical “Providentissimus Deus (II, D, 3, b):

On my own part I confess to your charity that it is only to those books of Scripture, which are now called canonical, that I have learned to pay such honor and reverence as to believe most firmly that none of their writers has fallen into any error. And if in these books I meet anything, which seems contrary to truth, I shall not hesitate to conclude either that the text is faulty, or that the translator has not expressed the meaning of passage, or that I myself do not understand.

This is where the professional biblical exegete comes in. His job is to #1 interpret scripture in union with the mind and tradition of the Church. #2 locate and interpret as far as possible, the original text of the original author.

As Mr. Conte correctly suggests, it is at this point that there can be legitimate discussion as to the meaning of Sacred Scripture PROVIDED we keep in mind the facts that #1. Only the Church’s Magisterium has the final authority to interpret Scripture. The work of the exegete and of the individual believer must ALWAYS be subjected to and in union with that final, inerrant authority. #2. One must be careful not to take Church teaching out of its historical context or try to make it say more or less than it does. #3. The Magisterium MUST ALWAYS be interpreted in light of the whole deposit of faith, the entirety of Church teaching and not any one document in isolation.

Corry
 
Is that the source of the lengthy quote in the above post?
No, it’s not. I couldn’t indicate the source anymore because it wouldn’t fit. That one came from Dr. Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology. It’s the textbook we use in Bible school. The chapter I took it from is on the topic of The Doctrine of Inerrancy of Scripture. It would be better to read the whole chapter though.
 
A. The Meaning of Inerrancy

We will not at this point repeat the arguments concerning the authority of
Scripture that were given in chapter 4. There it was argued that all the words in the
Bible are God’s words, and that therefore to disbelieve or disobey any word in
Scripture is to disbelieve or disobey God. It was argued further that the Bible clearly
teaches that God cannot lie or speak falsely (2 Sam. 7:28; Titus 1:2; Heb. 6:18).
Therefore, all the words in Scripture are claimed to be completely true and without
error in any part (Num. 23:19; Pss. 12:6; 119:89, 96; Prov. 30:5; Matt. 24:35). God’s
words are, in fact, the ultimate standard of truth (John 17:17).

Especially relevant at this point are those Scripture texts that indicate the total
truthfulness and reliability of God’s words. “The words of the LORD are words that
are pure silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times” (Ps. 12:6,
author’s transl.), indicates the absolute reliability and purity of Scripture. Similarly,
“Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him”
(Prov. 30:5), indicates the truthfulness of every word that God has spoken. Though
error and at least partial falsehood may characterize the speech of every human being,
it is the characteristic of God’s speech even when spoken through sinful human
beings that it is never false and that it never affirms error: “God is not man, that he
should lie, or a son of man, that he should repent” (Num. 23:19) was spoken by sinful
Balaam specifically about the prophetic words that God had spoken through his own
lips.

With evidence such as this we are now in a position to define biblical inerrancy:
The inerrancy of Scripture means that Scripture in the original manuscripts does not
affirm anything that is contrary to fact.


This definition focuses on the question of truthfulness and falsehood in the
language of Scripture. The definition in simple terms just means that the Bible always
tells the truth and that it always tells the truth concerning everything it talks about.
This definition does not mean that the Bible tells us every fact there is to know about
any one subject, but it affirms that what it does say about any subject is true.
 
It is important to realize at the outset of this discussion that the focus of this
controversy is on the question of truthfulness in speech. It must be recognized that
absolute truthfulness in speech is consistent with some other types of statements, such
as the following:

1. The Bible Can Be Inerrant and Still Speak in the Ordinary Language of
Everyday Speech.
This is especially true in “scientific” or “historical” descriptions of
facts or events. The Bible can speak of the sun rising and the rain falling because from
the perspective of the speaker this is exactly what happens. From the standpoint of an
observer standing on the sun (were that possible) or on some hypothetical “fixed”
point in space, the earth rotates and brings the sun into view, and rain does not fall
downward but upward or sideways or whatever direction necessary for it to be drawn
by gravity toward the surface of the earth. But such explanations are hopelessly
pedantic and would make ordinary communication impossible. From the standpoint of
the speaker, the sun does rise and the rain does fall, and these are perfectly true
descriptions of the natural phenomena the speaker observes.

A similar consideration applies to numbers when used in measuring or in
counting. A reporter can say that 8,000 men were killed in a certain battle without
thereby implying that he has counted everyone and that there are not 7,999 or 8,001
dead soldiers. If roughly 8,000 died, it would of course be false to say that 16,000
died, but it would not be false in most contexts for a reporter to say that 8,000 men
died when in fact 7,823 or 8,242 had died: the limits of truthfulness would depend on
the degree of precision implied by the speaker and expected by his original hearers.
This is also true for measurements. Whether I say, “I don’t live far from my
office,” or “I live a little over a mile from my office,” or “I live one mile from my
office,” or “I live 1.287 miles from my office,” all four statements are still
approximations to some degree of accuracy. Further degrees of accuracy might be
obtained with more precise scientific instruments, but these would still be
approximations to a certain degree of accuracy. Thus, measurements also, in order to
be true, should conform to the degree of precision implied by the speaker and
expected by the hearers in the original context. It should not trouble us, then, to affirm
both that the Bible is absolutely truthful in everything it says and that it uses ordinary
language to describe natural phenomena or to give approximations or round numbers
when those are appropriate in the context.

We should also note that language can make vague or imprecise statements
without being untrue. “I live a little over a mile from my office” is a vague and
imprecise statement, but it is also inerrant: there is nothing untrue about it. It does not
affirm anything that is contrary to fact. In a similar way, biblical statements can be
imprecise and still be totally true. Inerrancy has to do with truthfulness not with the
degree of precision with which events are reported.

2. The Bible Can Be Inerrant and Still Include Loose or Free Quotations. The
method by which one person quotes the words of another person is a procedure that in
large part varies from culture to culture. In contemporary American and British
culture we are used to quoting a person’s exact words when we enclose the statement
in quotation marks (this is called direct quotation). But when we use indirect
quotation (with no quotation marks) we only expect an accurate report of the
substance of a statement. Consider this sentence: “Elliot said that he would return
home for supper right away.” The sentence does not quote Elliot directly, but it is an
acceptable and truthful report of Elliot’s actual statement to his father, “I will come to
the house to eat in two minutes,” even though the indirect quotation included none of
the speaker’s original words.

Written Greek at the time of the New Testament had no quotation marks or
equivalent kinds of punctuation, and an accurate citation of another person needed to
include only a correct representation of the content of what the person said (rather like
our indirect quotations): it was not expected to cite each word exactly. Thus,
inerrancy is consistent with loose or free quotations of the Old Testament or of the
words of Jesus, for example, so long as the content is not false to what was originally
stated. The original writer did not ordinarily imply that he was using the exact words
of the speaker and only those, nor did the original hearers expect verbatim quotation
in such reporting.

3. It Is Consistent With Inerrancy to Have Unusual or Uncommon Grammatical
Constructions in the Bible.
Some of the language of Scripture is elegant and
stylistically excellent. Other scriptural writings contain the rough-hewn language of
ordinary people. At times this includes a failure to follow the commonly accepted
“rules” of grammatical expression (such as the use of a plural verb where grammatical
rules would require a singular verb, or the use of a feminine adjective where a
masculine one would be expected, or different spelling for a word than the one
commonly used, etc.). These stylistically or grammatically irregular statements
(which are especially found in the book of Revelation) should not trouble us, for they
do not affect the truthfulness of the statements under consideration: a statement can be
ungrammatical but still be entirely true. For example, an uneducated backwoodsman
in some rural area may be the most trusted man in the county even though his
grammar is poor, because he has earned a reputation for never telling a lie. Similarly,
there are a few statements in Scripture (in the original languages) that are
ungrammatical (according to current standards of proper grammar at that time) but
still inerrant because they are completely true. The issue is truthfulness in speech.
 
RESPONSE:

No. They are talking about the same one. Not just Goliath. Specifically “Goliath of Gath” fighting on the side of the Philistines.

JPM
Check out the links on this page for your reference:

apocalipsis.org/difficulties.htm

Who killed Goliath, David or Elhanan?
1 Samuel 17:50 and 2 Samuel 21:19

David did (1 Samuel 17:50) - “Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand.”

Elhanan did (2 Sam. 21:19)- “And there was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.”

The answer lies in two areas. 1 Chronicles 20:5 says, “And there was war with the Philistines again, and Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.” This is the correct answer; namely, that Elhanan killed Goliath’s brother.

Second, it appears there was a copyist error in 2 Samuel 21:19. According to Gleason Archer’s Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties on page 179, it says,
  1. The sign of the direct object, which in Chronicles comes just before “Lahmi,” was '-t; the copyist mistook it for b-t or b-y-t (“Beth”) and thus got Bet hal-Lahmi (“the Bethlehemite”) out of it.
  2. He misread the word for “brother” (’-h) as the sign of the direct object (’-t) right before g-l-y-t (“Goliath”). Thus he made “Goliath” the object of “killed” (wayyak), instead of the “brother” of Goliath (as the Chronicles passage does).
  3. The copyist misplaced the word for “weavers” (’-r-g-ym) so as to put it right after “Elhanan” as his patronymic (ben Y-’-r-y’-r–g-ym, or ben ya 'arey 'ore -gim – “the son of the forests of weavers” – a most unlikely name for anyone’s father!). In Chronicles the 'ore grim (“weavers”) comes right after menor ("a beam of ") – thus making perfectly good sense.
Therefore, we see that 2 Samuel 21:19 had a copyist error and 1 Chronicles 20:5 is the correct information.
 
Ok…So, I skimmed through this thread and noticed some things that I wanted to comment on. Sorry if I call some people out on their mistakes.

First of all, what I would like to state is, I cannot believe there are some Catholics on these forums that believe scripture contains errors. This is a modern heresy that is creeping into the minds of Catholics who are listening to such moderninst theologians. These moderninst theologians are teaching to students in classrooms. Believe me…I know. I had a liberal professor who thought she knew more than the current Pope.

A couple of things I can say is that, if Holy Writ contains errors, than how are we certain that what we learn from the Gospels is correct in what Christ did? What truths are picked out for us to deem as right. If the writers did err, than one can say St. Paul erred on certain doctrines. Now, I know some may say that, “No, the Catholic Church says that there are no errors in doctrines of the faith the are intended for our salvation.” But how than if we have errors in Holy Scripture no which ones are right and which ones are wrong? I tell you again that this is a modernist heresy. There are those who wish to see the Church change some of her doctrines. This heresy is the way for those who wish to see the Church take a step into the “modern era.” Next, if we continue down this route, one than can find some way for accepting some teachings of the Church as being wrong because Holy Scripture was actually wrong in this “erred revelation.” One does not have to look to far to see this happening right now in some modernist circles, for example the ordination of women. Now as for another thing, since Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition have the same force in the deposit of Faith, than Holy Tradition must contain errors if Holy Scripture contains errors.

Now, what I do know is that Holy Sctipture is inerrant in that it contains no errors in what the inspired author intended to teach. If the author intended to teach something on history, science, faith, morals, parables, etc., than it is inerrant for the inspired author intended to teach that subject. One can just look at the Book of Tobit to see this example. It may contain history that may not match up correctly, but did the author intend to teach history…no! Many theologians actually say that Tobit was more like a parable. So, with that said it is inerrant, for the Holy Spirit, who cannot lie, guided him to writing an inerrant parable. Meaning the parable is true to be a lesson learned.

I will also say that, I am going to listen to a magisterial document over any modernist. True, these documents do not have the charimsa of Papal Infalliblity…, but they do not contain errors, for this has always been taught.
To those who have replied to this thread:

There seems to be some confusion on what constitutes an “ex cathedra” statement and its role in in errantly setting forth Catholic teaching.

As I recall my ecclesiology class, formally, “ex cathedra” (from the chair) only applies to statements issued by Pope Leo XIII and his successors. Formally speaking it does not apply to statements issued by Popes prior to Pope Leo or to Church councils.

As I recall, there have only been two formal “ex cathedra” statements in the entire history of the Church. The first was issued by Pope Leo XIII (later confirmed by Vatican I and Vatican II) himself in defining the dogma of papal infallibility. The second was issued by Pope Pius XII when he defined the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.

The various statements of Church councils on interpretation of Sacred Scripture are NOT “ex cathedra” statements. This does not mean that they are capable of error. They are in errant NOT because they are “ex cathedra” statements, but because they represent the consistent, constant and unfailing teaching of the Church’s Magisterial authority. This is, in reality, a minor point because both, ultimately, arrive at the same point - an in errant teaching that Catholics must believe as a matter of faith as Vatican I’s statement of infallibility makes clear.
Ok, so I see a problem with your ecclesiology. Papal Infalliblity did not come from by Leo XIII, but Vatican I. Papal Infalliblity always existed. Just look at the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception…this was Infallibly pronounced almost 25 years before the First Vatican Council. So, I will continue to listen to the Popes who have previously upheld the total inerrancy of scripture. Until someone shows me otherwise, from some Pope stating that there are certain errors contained in Scripture, I will continue to hold onto this ancient belief.
 
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