Totally Out of the Loop: What's the Problem with Pope Paul VI?

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Fulfilling the duties proper to your state in life is God’s will.
 
I’m glad that you found Vatican II to be good for you, but what followed/it wasn’t good for us Romans.
 
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semper_catholicus said:
Fulfilling the duties proper to your state in life is God’s will.
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Yes, but that can be taken a bit too far. My eternal salvation is not dependent on whether or not I have dirty dishes in the sink, or always have the laundry put away, or keep an immaculate home – though those duties are certainly part of my state in life.

Our Lord never told a single parable about separating the sheep and the goats based on the cleanliness and organization of their homes, thanks be to God!

On the other hand, though my home actually does seem to be in a constant state of clutter or disarray, I make every effort I can at home, and bust my rear end in my duties at school. I just consistently miss the mark at home, though I find it much easier to fulfill my duties at school.

Even so, these poor efforts would be meaningless if not done as a loving offering to God.
 
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EricF said:
@Gertabelle Off topic, but are you getting snow?
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Tiny bit, maybe three inches. The clouds are breaking up now, and the streets are covered not in snow but in the wet leaves brought down by the snow. It’s actually kind of funny… though messy.
 
I didn’t say that your eternal salvation rested on doing your duties PERFECTLY 100% of the time (although, that is something to strive for.), I was talking about how that was part of holiness and virtue.
 
semper_catholicus said:
I didn’t say that your eternal salvation rested on doing your duties PERFECTLY 100% of the time (although, that is something to strive for.), I was talking about how that was part of holiness and virtue.
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I think it’s essential to strive for completing the duties of our state in life. And I believe it is indeed God’s will that we strive for it. But God alone knows whether He wills for us to succeed or to fail. I’ve grown a lot in compassion and perseverance because of my humiliations as a poor housekeeper.

Relating back to the topic at hand – whether or not Pope Saint Paul VI was an excellent Pope or a poor one, the Church has declared his life holy, and I’m sticking with the Church. :+1:t4:

“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Carry on.
 
For some reason what was done at the council wasn’t distributed the way it should have. At least that’s what I hear?

ZP
 
EWTN ran a movie “Paul VI” yesterday, I recorded it and I am watching it now. It’s from 2010, so relatively new. It is an Italian movie with English subtitles but pretty good so far.

He was a friend of the Italian President Moro, they may have even grown up together or something, that’s covered at wkipedia. Moro was kidnapped by the Red Brigade and later killed in captivity. It also has a bit about World War II and him facing the Fascists. So, this movie, would seem to be a positive portrayal.

en.wikipedia.org

Pope Paul VI - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

So, to become a Saint, I gather he had interceded for 1 or 2 miracles that set up the process. This is the Pope a lot of us grew up with, so I am hoping for the bet.
 
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semper_catholicus said:
The question of wether or not canonizations are infallible is an ongoing theological debate.

In the case of Pope Paul VI, proper canonical form for the process of his canonization was not completely observed. They did not go over all of the documents as they are supposed to with anyone being considered for canonization. One could argue for the invalidity of his canonization.
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You are free to challenge all the Church teachings and decrees that are in conflict with your well-formed conscience.

Have a beautiful evening. :+1:t4:
 
@semper_catholicus my friend you should try to step back and see the big picture… You’re on a dangerous path.

The path you’re treading ends in either schism (usually to SSPX or sedevacant or other rad trad groups, occasionally to the Orthodox) or apostasy (atheism)… I’ve seen it time and time and time again.

If you’re dedicated to the Church you’re gonna have to learn to understand why the Pope and the Church have done what they have… The constant criticism of the Pope and VII, etc. will inevitably lead you to abandoning the Church.

I would bet my life that if you continue on this road, 5 years from now you won’t be a Roman Catholic anymore.
 
semper_catholicus said:
The question of wether or not canonizations are infallible is an ongoing theological debate.

In the case of Pope Paul VI, proper canonical form for the process of his canonization was not completely observed. They did not go over all of the documents as they are supposed to with anyone being considered for canonization. One could argue for the invalidity of his canonization.
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Canon law can be ignored by the Pope. It’s really just for everyone else.

Canonizations are considered infallible.

Just because the Pope didn’t follow Canon Law doesn’t mean a Saint isn’t in Heaven. Yes, perhaps it might be unwise to canonize so many recient Popes, but we have to remember that the more modern Saints (due to the modern technology of the 19th, 20th & 21st centuries) make it easier to establish background checks, check miracles, etc.

So it makes sense that we can canonize more people today, because we have better ways to fact check reported miracles - and communication now travels at light speed instead of horse speed.
 
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Victoria33 said:
EWTN ran a movie “Paul VI” yesterday, I recorded it and I am watching it now. It’s from 2010, so relatively new. It is an Italian movie with English subtitles but pretty good so far.

He was a friend of the Italian President Moro, they may have even grown up together or something, that’s covered at wkipedia. Moro was kidnapped by the Red Brigade and later killed in captivity. It also has a bit about World War II and him facing the Fascists. So, this movie, would seem to be a positive portrayal.

Pope Paul VI - Wikipedia

So, to become a Saint, I gather he had interceded for 1 or 2 miracles that set up the process. This is the Pope a lot of us grew up with, so I am hoping for the bet.
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It’s a good movie.

It’s also on FORMED.org for those of you who have FORMED.

Personally, I recommend watching the John XXIII movie before the Paul IV one.

On FORMED, you can watch in order the following Pope movies:

“God’s Mighty Servant” - about Pope Pius XII & the nun who helped him
“Pope Pius XII - Under the Roman Sky” - about his pontificate
“John XXIII - The Pope of Peace”
“Paul VI - The Pope in the Tempest”
Then we’re was a Pope John Paul I movie, but it’s not on FORMED anymore
Finally, the “Pope John Paul II” movie,

God Bless
 
The question of wether or not canonizations are infallible is a debate.
 
This whole thing is just more people who think they know better than the Church.

We should be grateful that there are more Saints in heaven praying for us, not grumbling that we don’t think they are worthy.
 
Pope Saint Paul VI is one of the saintliest of men of my lifetime .

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semper_catholicus said:
The reason we canonize people is not SOLEY to recognize that they’re in heaven, but becuase they demonstrated REMARKABLE and HEROIC virtue and holiness.
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Exactly. None of which requires remarkable success at your job. You misunderstand canonization.
 
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