Touch Not My Anointed One

[Truthstalker]

…so this morning I go to Mass, for reasons I won’t explain, and there is read the passage about David sparing Saul’s life because he is the Lord’s Anointed. Hmm, says I, this is an interesting angle I had not yet looked at that I as far as I know hasn’t been brought up on CAF, at least not in my time. Now four people will point out threads where this has been discussed. Oh, well. Can’t read everything.

John 20 and Acts 1 show the anointing of the Lord now not done with physical oil but by God Himself breathing on someone, as oil was the type under the Old Covenant in Exodus 40:15:

“You shall anoint them, as you anointed their father, that they may minister to Me as priests; for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.”

For those Protestants with some Pentecostal heritage, the “anointing of the Lord” is essential for God-blessed leadership in the Church. It is not optional.

Are priests regarded as the “anointed of the Lord” in the Catholic Church? As part of ordination, are they breathed on by the bishop or anointed with oil?

This might more than suggest the validity of apostolic succession and get me over a hesitation about Catholicism.

 

[scylla]

“The bishop then instructs and admonishes the candidates as to the duties of their new office. He kneels down in front of the altar; the ordinandi lay themselves prostrate on the carpet, and the Litany of the Saints is chanted or recited. On the conclusion of the Litany, all arise, the candidates come forward, and kneel in pairs before the bishop while he lays both hands on the head of each candidate in silence. The same is done by all priests who are present. Whilst bishop and priests keep their right hands extended, the former alone recites a prayer, inviting all to pray to God for a blessing on the candidates. After this follows the Collect and then the bishop says the Preface, towards the end of which occurs the prayer, “Grant, we beseech Thee etc.” The bishop then with appropriate formulæ crosses the stole over the breast of each one and vests him with the chasuble. This is arranged to hang down in front but is folded behind. Though there is no mention of the stole in many of the most ancient Pontificals, there can be no doubt of its antiquity. The vesting with the chasuble is also very ancient and found already in Mabillon “Ord. VIII and IX.” Afterwards the bishop recites a prayer calling down God’s blessing on the newly-ordained. He then intones the “Veni Creator”, and whilst it is being sung by the choir he anoints the hands of each with the oil of catechumens.”

And later
The bishop laying his hands upon each says: “Receive ye the Holy Ghost, whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”

This is what I could find on short notice, before I have to wash some dishes, I thought I would just post this real quick. I hope it helps.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Truthstalker]

Interesting.

What is the significance of the stole, and how old is this liturgy? How has the liturgy changed, if at all, from the earliest records we have of it?

 

[Joseph_Mary]

Are priests regarded as the “anointed of the Lord” in the Catholic Church? As part of ordination, are they breathed on by the bishop or anointed with oil?

All CONFIRMED members of the Orthodox/Catholic Church are the “Lord’s anointed”. Part of the Sacrament of Confirmation is being anointed with “holy oil” blessed by the local bishop. This oil is also used for the anointing of priests, anointing of the sick, and probably other uses of which I am not aware…

 

[Pug]

As part of ordination, are they breathed on by the bishop or anointed with oil?

Yes to oil, though the more central portion is where the bishop lays his hands on the man and praying for the Holy Spirit to come down on the man and give him the gifts he needs for the office.

But, yes, the man gets anointed with oil. Here is a slightly obscure passage from the CCC to back my assertion up. (It makes more sense in the context of the surrounding paragraphs.)

1574 As in all the sacraments additional rites surround the celebration. Varying greatly among the different liturgical traditions, these rites have in common the expression of the multiple aspects of sacramental grace. Thus in the Latin Church, the initial rites - presentation and election of the ordinand, instruction by the bishop, examination of the candidate, litany of the saints - attest that the choice of the candidate is made in keeping with the practice of the Church and prepare for the solemn act of consecration, after which several rites symbolically express and complete the mystery accomplished: for bishop and priest, an anointing with holy chrism, a sign of the special anointing of the Holy Spirit who makes their ministry fruitful; giving the book of the Gospels, the ring, the miter, and the crosier to the bishop as the sign of his apostolic mission to proclaim the Word of God, of his fidelity to the Church, the bride of Christ, and his office as shepherd of the Lord’s flock; presentation to the priest of the paten and chalice, “the offering of the holy people” which he is called to present to God; giving the book of the Gospels to the deacon who has just received the mission to proclaim the Gospel of Christ.

 

[scylla]

Interesting.

What is the significance of the stole, and how old is this liturgy? How has the liturgy changed, if at all, from the earliest records we have of it?

Good question, I don’t know, but if no-one answers I will look it up when I have the time. So I will bump your question so maybe someone will answer.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Truthstalker]

Is ordination absolute, or is it void under certain conditions, such the priest or the bishop being in a state of mortal sin?

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Is ordination absolute, or is it void under certain conditions, such the priest or the bishop being in a state of mortal sin?

Normally there needs to be correct form and correct intention for any sacrament to be valid.
The personal sinfulness or otherwise of the celebrants doesn’t normally affect validity. It would create too many practical problems otherwise.

Exceptions arise when there is a formal schism or excommunication. Even here, ordiantions are often regarded as valid, though illicit. The exception is Anglican orders, because it was felt that during the seventeenth century the Anglican understanding of priesthood became so divorced from the Catholic as to break the chain of valid ordinations. Now that Anglicans have begun to ordain women, we can see that this judgement was probably correct.

 

[Truthstalker]

David regarded Saul as God’s anointed one even while Saul was trying to kill him. Personal sinfulness does not stand in the way of God working through His anointing in someone.

By “correct intention” I assume the intention is to ordain someone as priest rather than, say, to cook a cabbage.

By “correct form” I am not sure.

It sounds like a Catholic would argue that the ordination process bullet-proofs the Church from losing the anointing. On the other hand, some historical abuses Protestants will bring up include juvenile bishops and rascal popes, who might not have had either correct form or intent when they ordained people due to their inability to comprehend the significance of ordination, either through a lack of will, correct education or intellectual maturity.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

David regarded Saul as God’s anointed one even while Saul was trying to kill him. Personal sinfulness does not stand in the way of God working through His anointing in someone.

By “correct intention” I assume the intention is to ordain someone as priest rather than, say, to cook a cabbage.

By “correct form” I am not sure.

It sounds like a Catholic would argue that the ordination process bullet-proofs the Church from losing the anointing. On the other hand, some historical abuses Protestants will bring up include juvenile bishops and rascal popes, who might not have had either correct form or intent when they ordained people due to their inability to comprehend the significance of ordination, either through a lack of will, correct education or intellectual maturity.

I read a book called “The Faith of the Vatican” which makes a huge meal out of “correct intention”.

Clearly there is a huge set of actions which are not ordination and no one would seriously advance as ordination, such as asking a man to cook a cabbage.

Where you get a grey area is where, say, someone ordains with the intention of creating a priest of Christ, but doesn’t believe that consecration of the Eucharist is legitimate and so doesn’t intend that this priest celebrate Mass.

Rarely you might get a question with a rascally Pope or Bishop who is purely thinking of the material advantage to the ordinand, and has no desire that this person carry out any priestly functions. However that would be very rare, because even a very immature bishop would normally have some understanding of what a priest is - enough to legitimately intend to ordain one. If neither priest nor bishop later try to revoke the ordination, we can presume it is valid, just as if there are some questions about a married couple’s maturity on entering the sacrament, but neither ask for an annullment, no one would declare that marriage null and void.

 

[Nita]

Interesting.

What is the significance of the stole, and how old is this liturgy? How has the liturgy changed, if at all, from the earliest records we have of it?

Regarding the ordination liturgy, the following is from the New Advent website:

Ceremonies of Ordination

From the beginning the diaconate, priesthood, and episcopate were conferred with special rites and ceremonies. Though in the course of time there was considerable development and diversity in different parts of the Church, the imposition of hands and prayer were always and universally employed and date from Apostolic times (Acts 6:6; 13:3; 1 Timothy 4:14; 2 Timothy 1:6). In the early Roman Church these sacred orders were conferred amid a great concourse of clergy and people at a solemn station. The candidates, who had been previously presented to the people, were summoned by name at the beginning of the solemn Mass. They were placed in a conspicuous position, and anyone objecting to a candidate was called upon to state his objections without fear. Silence was regarded as approval. Shortly before the Gospel, after the candidates were presented to the pope, the entire congregation was invited to prayer. All prostrating, the litanies were recited, the pope then imposed his hands upon the head of each candidate and recited the Collect with a prayer of consecration corresponding to the order conferred. The Gallican Rite was somewhat more elaborate. Besides the ceremonies used in the Roman Church, the people approving the candidates by acclamation, the hands of the deacon and the head and hands of priests and bishops were anointed with the sign of the Cross. After the seventh century the tradition of the instruments of office was added, alb and stole to the deacon, stole and planeta to the priest, ring and staff to the bishop. In the Eastern Church, after the presentation of the candidate to the congregation and their shout of approval, “He is worthy”, the bishop imposed his hands upon the candidate and said the consecrating prayer.

For info on the stole, go to www.newadvent.org/cathen and do a search on stole.

Anointing with oil is used in several sacraments: Baptism, Confirmation, Anointing of the Sick, and Holy Orders.

Nita

 

[LindaS]

How has the liturgy changed, if at all, from the earliest records we have of it?

About 150 AD, Justin Martyr wrote an explanation of Christian practices for the emperor. It reads very like a description of the Liturgy today. It should be easy to find here on the net.

Peace,
Linda

 

[YinYangMom]

About 150 AD, Justin Martyr wrote an explanation of Christian practices for the emperor.

It’s long and you can find it here. But here’s the part about what is now known as our liturgy:

CHAPTER LXV – ADMINISTRATION OF THE SACRAMENTS.
But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to genoito [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.
CHAPTER LXVI – OF THE EUCHARIST.
And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
CHAPTER LXVII – WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRIS- TIANS.
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.