Touched by Tolkien

  • Thread starter Thread starter Della
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Della

Guest
Talking about our favorite movies has prompted me to ask my fellow fans of The Lord of the Rings, both movies and books, as well of the Silmarillion and other works by Tolkien, what is it about his writings that touch you or have special meaning for you.
 
I can recall the scene at the end of the Two Towers where Frodo is “dead” and Sam reluctantly takes the Ring on and continues the journey to Mt. Doom. His sorrow for losing Frodo is obvious, but he continues on in spite of the danger, the sadness he feels, the very slim chance of success… He does it for Frodo. It’s a beautiful testament to friendship. Just thinking about it gets me teary.

In this Sam reminds me of St. Peter, just to include a theological reference.
 
40.png
Aureole:
I can recall the scene at the end of the Two Towers where Frodo is “dead” and Sam reluctantly takes the Ring on and continues the journey to Mt. Doom. His sorrow for losing Frodo is obvious, but he continues on in spite of the danger, the sadness he feels, the very slim chance of success… He does it for Frodo. It’s a beautiful testament to friendship. Just thinking about it gets me teary.

In this Sam reminds me of St. Peter, just to include a theological reference.
Click to expand...
Yes, I love that scene too. In the book Sam argues with himself about his fitness to carry on the mission. He’s a servant who thinks he shouldn’t be taking on himself what his “betters” were called to do. Fortunately for Middle Earth, he conquers mere social convention, wins through to true humility, and takes the ring, promising to come back when he has completed the great task his beloved Mr. Frodo fell attempting to do. Truly beautiful.
 

  1. *]Sam as “the good neighbor” of Jesus’ teachings - Always helping, not complaining, focused on the long term goal, etc.
    *]The ‘resurrection’ of Gandolf.
    *]The One Ring as a symbol of material corruption of our souls.
    *]The clear difference between Good and Evil.
    *]The growth in the Good of various individuals.
    *]Elven females as archtypes of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
 
Hi Della, great question, thank you!

I liked this exchange between Frodo and Gandalf:
‘Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.’ ― ‘I wish it need not have happened in my time,’ said Frodo. ― ‘So do I,’ said Gandalf, ‘and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.’ ― ‘The Lord of the Rings’, Book I, Chapter 2
Click to expand...
Although, in the movie it takes place at a different place than in the book.

You might want to check out this article too (I just found it!): “20 Ways the Lord of the Rings is Both Christian And Catholic”

What do you think of that article?
VC
 
Hey, VC! I really liked that Jackson moved this scene from Bag End to the Mines of Moria. Somehow, sitting in that dark, forbidding place, the words took on a deeper meaning, don’t you think?

Great article, too. I bookmarked it. Here’s another good one: Lord and Lady of the Rings: The Hidden Presence of Tolkien’s Catholicism in The Lord of the Rings by Stratford Caldecott. It was the basis for his deeply insightful book: The Power of the Ring:The Spiritual Vision Behind the Lord of the Rings.
 
I have always been fond of “Leaf by Niggle” one of the short stories. Hard to describe, but give it a try. It rather reminded me of “The Great Divorce” by C.S. Lewis.
 
40.png
mpav:
I have always been fond of “Leaf by Niggle” one of the short stories. Hard to describe, but give it a try. It rather reminded me of “The Great Divorce” by C.S. Lewis.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is in the same vein. It would make a lovely teleplay for the Hallmark channel, don’t you think?
 
I would say, for me, its the omnipresence of hope. Even when there’s not much chance of it its still there and acknowledged as powerful. In the movie (I can’t find it in the book) where Pippin and Gandalf are watching the approaching darkness Gandalf says something about a fool’s hope, that there was always a very little chance that there would be success. Hope need not be much, even a little is powerful. I think that theme goes throughout the series too.

I also love the Hobbits. They’re great examples that size and worldliness are not measures of potential. Sam was my favorite from the first time I read it. His devotion and love for his master is so pure.

Ooooh, now I want to read it! And I’m giving up fiction for Lent!
 
wisdom 3:5:
I would say, for me, its the omnipresence of hope. Even when there’s not much chance of it its still there and acknowledged as powerful. In the movie (I can’t find it in the book) where Pippin and Gandalf are watching the approaching darkness Gandalf says something about a fool’s hope, that there was always a very little chance that there would be success. Hope need not be much, even a little is powerful. I think that theme goes throughout the series too.
Click to expand...
Oh yes. And in that Tolkien, like Chesterton before him, is very Catholic. In The Ballad of the White Horse Chesterton has the Virgin Mary tell King Alfred:

“I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher.”

The idea of hope when everything around us points to despair is at the heart of Catholicism. As Tolkien also put in LOTR (I don’t remember exactly where, either 😉 ) words to the effect of “Only those who know the end for certain have the right to despair.”
I also love the Hobbits. They’re great examples that size and worldliness are not measures of potential. Sam was my favorite from the first time I read it. His devotion and love for his master is so pure.
Click to expand...
I readily identify with the Hobbits, being a diminutive person myself. But, really what they are is the ordinary country people of England that Tolkien so loved. They aren’t among the very wise, as Bilbo tells us in the opening of the extended film version of The Fellowship, but they are sensible, hard working, and wise enough on their own ground. But, they’re also close-minded and parochial, which we see quite clearly in characters like the Gaffer and Ted Sandyman.

And, dear Sam. Who doesn’t love and admire him? Of course, he isn’t without fault. Tolkien wrote about Sam’s one great failure–that of having no mercy, compassion, or understanding for Gollum until it is too late. Remember that in the book Sam’s rough words to Gollum just when Gollum was on the verge of repentance and restoration sealed Gollum’s fate. It’s a warning to all of us not to judge others but to try to help each other on our journey to God.
Ooooh, now I want to read it! And I’m giving up fiction for Lent!
Click to expand...
There are passages, though, that I think qualify as true spiritual reading. It isn’t only theological treatises and the writings of the saints directing souls that can lift our hearts and minds to God, is it?
 
I like the quiet undercurrent of Providence that runs through the events of the whole “Ring” saga.

I was also impressed by the creation story in the The Silmarillion and the way it touched on sovereignty and free will.
 
What a pity that Bilbo did not stab that vile creature, when he had a chance!’
‘Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. And he has been well rewarded, Frodo. Be sure that he took so little hurt from the evil, and escaped in the end, because he began his ownership of the Ring so. With Pity!’
‘I am sorry,’ said Frodo. ‘But I am frightened; and I do not feel any pity for Gollum.’
‘You have not seen him,’ Gandalf broke in.
‘No, and I don’t want to,’ said Frodo. ‘I can’t understand you. Do you mean to say that you, and the Elves, have let him live on after all those horrible deeds? Now at any rate he is as bad as an Orc, and just an enemy. He deserves death!’
‘Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end: and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many, yours not least.’
 
Thanks, everyone, for your insightful comments and sharing of favorite quotes. It’s all good, as they say! 👍

What I really want to share, though, is how Tolkien’s writings have affected your life. How did reading him change something in your life or help you with some dilemma or make you appreciate something within your faith–that sort of thing. Are there any takers? :love:
 
I wouldn’t exactly say that Tolkien has changed my life. He has influenced it somewhat though, with wonderful writing like his who wouldn’t be influenced? Then again, I’ve only read the Lord of the Rings and even then only once. Maybe if I read some more of his novels I would experience a change, I’m not sure. Certainly the Lord of the Rings is alone is good enough to inspire change.
 
40.png
Della:
Talking about our favorite movies has prompted me to ask my fellow fans of The Lord of the Rings, both movies and books, as well of the Silmarillion and other works by Tolkien, what is it about his writings that touch you or have special meaning for you.
Click to expand...
Della: Do you remember when Illuvatar (Eru) rose from his throne and told Melkor that all he did in dispite of Illuvatar’s design would only rebound and add to the final beauty of the design? That’s a paraphrase, but it still gives me chills (and to a degree, it keeps me from pissing and moaning about life).
 
The astounding ability to create an entire world from scratch, and also, despite people insisting otherwise, the fact that he is able to do this without injecting and soapbox, any POV under the surface, and still make their adventures seem meaningful.
 
40.png
Aureole:
I wouldn’t exactly say that Tolkien has changed my life. He has influenced it somewhat though, with wonderful writing like his who wouldn’t be influenced? Then again, I’ve only read the Lord of the Rings and even then only once. Maybe if I read some more of his novels I would experience a change, I’m not sure. Certainly the Lord of the Rings is alone is good enough to inspire change.
Click to expand...
I suppose it all depends on where one is at in life whether or not his writings (perhaps any author’s writings) have an effect on one’s life. LOTR literally changed me from one person into another. I was a self-assured, narrow-minded Pentecostalist when I began reading it and a seeking, wounded soul at the end of it, much like Frodo himself. It happened when Frodo claimed the ring at the Cracks of Doom. Exactly why, I still can’t say, but it did. And, after leaving me in that state, made it possible for me to question the limitations of my sect and to look into other possibilities, “even” the Catholic Church. 😉

JKirkLVNV wrote:
Della: Do you remember when Illuvatar (Eru) rose from his throne and told Melkor that all he did in dispite of Illuvatar’s design would only rebound and add to the final beauty of the design? That’s a paraphrase, but it still gives me chills (and to a degree, it keeps me from pissing and moaning about life).
Click to expand...
Yes, I was struck by that too. It made the book of Job come to life for me and a lot of OT things made more sense.

Liberalsaved wrote:
The astounding ability to create an entire world from scratch, and also, despite people insisting otherwise, the fact that he is able to do this without injecting and soapbox, any POV under the surface, and still make their adventures seem meaningful.
Click to expand...
Tolkien didn’t consciously write his story to support any particular religious point of view, at first, but in the rewrites he made the allusions to Catholicism (for those able to see them) much more clear. Still, a lot of people never tumble to that fact, but they still get plenty of “good stuff” from his writings just the same.
 
BUMP! C’mon people, there are more Tolkien devotees than just us in this thread on the board. :bounce:
 
I just read the LOTR recently. The end of The Return of the King struck me the most. I ended up crying it was so sad.

When I got to The Two Towers, I always wanted to know where were Sam and Frodo. I loved the Hobbits also.

The scene I remember the most from The Fellowship of the Ring is where Frodo tells the council, “I will go but I do not know the way.”

There was an earlier thread on LOTR that mentioned that Frodo, Galdalf, and Aragorn were representative of the three aspects of Jesus: Priest (Frodo carrying the Ring), Prophet (Galdalf and his message and counsel through the books plus rising from the dead), and King (Aragorn who was the long awaited king and he could heal). I could also see scenes that could represent the sacraments. The scene where Pippin confesses to Galdalf about using the palantir was almost exactly like the Sacrament of Confession.

Probably the best was the way Tolkien wrote about love. It wasn’t romantic or sexual as society says love is. Frodo loved Sam and Sam loved Frodo and you could tell by the way they behaved towards each other and others. The same with Gimli and Legolas. This love of companions, friends was so refreshing to read.

I loved the Hobbits, as I mentioned before, and the Ents. Just the way they didn’t rush things along or do things in haste.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top