Tough Abortions Discussion

[mark_a]

1. This is a scenario that was reported on the radio last week. Couple get pregnant, have their first scan (what is that? 12 weeks??) and find out the child has serious brain damage. The brain has not formed properly and basically he has only half his brain. The doctors tell the parents child will be born paraplegic with the most severe brain damage and will have no quality of life if he even survives.

Why not just kill the baby, the parents, and everyone else in this blood line to eliminate the possibility of another severely brain-damaged child?

 

[FightingFat]

Take any/all of your scenarios and substitute the words “seven year old boy” where you previously wrote “fetus” or “unborn baby” and you will come up with plenty of arguemts.

Oh yeah!

Why not just say two parents should kill their first grader because he is disabled or a woman should kill her young son because she thinks her parents might beat her up?

Why indeed-- but this is the crucial distinction I am interested in I suppose. Why? Because people feel that killing the baby inside the womb…When it is at it’s most dependant–its most vulnerable–is a legitamate course of action. I think we have to becareful to tell the truth; to elucidate the reality of proceedure, but not in a way that can be construed as overly emotive. We have to engage with the difficult position these people find themselves in, perhaps receiving advice that abortion is the cleanest option for them, and expound the reasons why it is most certainly not.

I think the best place to explore these arguments would be here, amoung people with a belief in line with truth and grounded in Catholic teaching. If we talk about it we can come up with good and useful arguments!

If you are having these discussions with people you know then I suggest visiting the “priests for life” website they have much material, reading suggestions, photos and plenty of pro-life support material for many scenarios.

Sounds ideal! I am in the midst of a discussion with someone who says he admires many things about me but thinks I have a bigoted and absolutist view on abortion. I hope you guys don’t mind me relying on you to thrash out some of the issues in my mind so that I can convince him that this is not the case! He has one more particularly difficult scenario that I would like to share with you all. He reckons (I don’t know) that he works in a health care capacity-- mental health or something similar – where he is dealing with these people: ie they constitute real cases. The Muslim girl had an abortion apparently. When he told me that it was like a physical blow to me I have to be honest.

I have been all the time trying to stress a compassionate position for the victims as one of his main lines of attack is that “people like me” ie “religious fanatics” are so busy condemning everyone’s sin we never do anything to actually help anyone.

Got a link to that site BTW?

 

[FightingFat]

The best answer from pro-abortionists, agnosticism regarding humanity, doesn’t cut it because the Deerhunter Principle applies.

Ooo what’s the Deerhunter Principle?

 

[FightingFat]

KathleenElsie:
This is still a life that needs to be protected. My daughters Godmother had a child born with this condition. Christopher lived for 10 hours. Long enough to be baptised, cuddled and cherished as a wanted child.

That’s a good one KathlennElsie centering on the humanity of the child: even if born dead, the child offers closure which surely has to be more natural conclusion that making the conscious decision to kill the child and then go through a partial birth abortion (which is what happened in the example).

The alternative consequence of going ahead with the preganancy is that you as a parent would have to care for a seriously handicapped child for a long while, but is this child any less human? I suppose the argument used against this being a good idea is one that considers the quality of life of that child would be seriously impaired…But from my work with handicapped children this argument carries no weight whatsoever. In my short life, what I have seen of death and the dying is a desperation to hold onto whatever little life is left to you no matter what is left. How can any of us judge anothers quality of life anyway?

 

[FightingFat]

If you are having these discussions with people you know then I suggest visiting the “priests for life” website they have much material, reading suggestions, photos and plenty of pro-life support material for many scenarios.

OK I found with the help of your friend and mine…Google! It is a very powerful website actually with some very challenging images:

priestsforlife.org/

And a big section on coming to the aid of women, fantastic!

priestsforlife.org/news/responsetobishopsonpostab.htm

 

[Petergee]

Ooo what’s the Deerhunter Principle?

If a deerhunter sees something moving in the forest, and he can’t be certain whether it’s a deer or a human, he must not shoot. Same thing applies to those who claim to be unsure whether it’s really a human or just a “bunch of cells”.

 

[Petergee]

OK- I want to discuss tough abortion situations and how we argue a pro-life position when faced with these sorts of really difficult situations.

1. This is a scenario that was reported on the radio last week. Couple get pregnant, have their first scan (what is that? 12 weeks??) and find out the child has serious brain damage. The brain has not formed properly and basically he has only half his brain. The doctors tell the parents child will be born paraplegic with the most severe brain damage and will have no quality of life if he even survives.
2. 16 year old Muslim girl has unprotected intercourse with a white boy and ends up pregnant. Her cousin had a white boyfriend and her uncle beat her up for it. She is convinced if her parents even find out, she will be severly beaten, possibly killed (honour killing type thing). What advice do we give? How do we deal with this situation?

There is only one reason why pro-abortionists and the mainstream media keep talking about these very rare or even hypothetical “hard cases”. To tear at people’s emotions so they won’t object to abortion “just this once”, which of course becomes the thin end of the wedge once they have established the principle in some people’s minds that abortion might sometimes be justifiable, they then keep pushing the envelope further and further to embrace cases which are less and less “hard” and before you know it it’s abortion on demand for no “reason” whatsoever, with millions of innocent victims.

 

[FightingFat]

There is only one reason why pro-abortionists and the mainstream media keep talking about these very rare or even hypothetical “hard cases”. To tear at people’s emotions so they won’t object to abortion “just this once”, which of course becomes the thin end of the wedge once they have established the principle in some people’s minds that abortion might sometimes be justifiable, they then keep pushing the envelope further and further to embrace cases which are less and less “hard” and before you know it it’s abortion on demand for no “reason” whatsoever, with millions of innocent victims.

Very true Peter, I have thus far approached the examples I gave in that way; asking if they represent the majority of abortions that take place or if they justify them. Having established that point it is my intention to address the examples more directly!

 

[Zooey]

Take any/all of your scenarios and substitute the words “seven year old boy” where you previously wrote “fetus” or “unborn baby” and you will come up with plenty of arguemts.

Why not just say two parents should kill their first grader because he is disabled or a woman should kill her young son because she thinks her parents might beat her up?

If you are having these discussions with people you know then I suggest visiting the “priests for life” website they have much material, reading suggestions, photos and plenty of pro-life support material for many scenarios.

Thank you for this excellent post!!

 

[Scottgun]

Sorry, this makes me so maaaadddd!!!

There are plenty and I mean PLENTY of organizations to help women in crisis pregnancies. The beleif that Catholics don’t want women to abort but really don’t care about the babies after they are born is pure hogwash. Of course we have to help women who choose not to abort! We are morally obligated to!!!

Good point both of you. *This is a canned pro-abortion objection. *People would do well to prepare for this by keeping handy a list of organizations like Project Gabriel that provide assistance to mothers.