Tough Question About Seeking God - How Can We Without Believing in Him?

[SpeakKindly]

I was recently speaking with someone about faith, and I used an analogy I saw someone from this board.

The analogy goes:

You’re on a ship, you fall overboard, and the crew throws you a life saver. (The rings that float). The life saver is faith, and in order to be saved from drowning, we must accept (receive) this life saver by grabbing onto it.

In response to this analogy, they said:

“It is not a choice. I cannot grab the ring because I cannot see the ring. If I am even drowning, neither God nor you nor anyone else has made this clear enough to me. If it was clear that I was drowning and that the ring was my salvation I would take it in an instant. Instead God (in the context of Christianity being true) has chosen for me to go to hell by not revealing himself to me. My mother says “seek God and he will reveal himself to you” but their definition of the word “seek” implicitly requires a belief in God. To me, to seek means to pick up a stone looking for God and to, most probably, see that he is not there. To them seeking means submission to God; to pray to him and ask him for forgiveness and devote myself to him and just sort of “see if that works out for me” I guess. But I can’t pray to something I do not believe in… that is the entire problem, you see.”

How should I respond to this ? How CAN we seek God without first believing in Him ?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tequirk]

Some people who struggled with initial belief “act as if” God exists in order to keep themselves open to faith. If a person is able to accept that there might be a God, and make simple, honest prayers which could even start like this: “I don’t know if you’re real, God, but I need help with…” then at the right time God will make Himself known to them.

Keep in mind that based on the experiences some people have had with hypocrites who call themselves believers, its easy for them to become very discouraged from belief in God. But He truly knows their hearts and what’s happened to them in their lives. He knows the obstacles in their path to Him which have been brought about by sin and evil. He also sends them opportunities to overcome these obstacles and finally come to know Him via special messengers of faith like yourself. But don’t blame yourself if it seems like your efforts are fruitless. You never know what kind of seeds you’re planting which may take root, grow and bear fruit later. I hope and pray this helps you.

Yours in Jesus through Mary,

Tom

P.S. - the reason God doesn’t appear in the clouds and say “Now do you believe in Me!?” is because He wants us to make a free choice to believe. Our free will is our greatest gift. The ability to choose God despite all the temptation to choose the pleasures of sin in this life is what gives us our human dignity. We only do this by His grace, though. And only two people since the Fall have done this perfectly: Jesus and His Blessed Mother.

 

[kingal86]

I’d be interested in any answers to that as well. It seems to me many that some people decide as an act of conscious will to try to believe, or act as though, God exists - which I don’t think is really the same as feeling certain.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

SpeakKindly;
How should I respond to this ? How CAN we seek God without first believing in Him ?

Thanks in advance!

We can search for God in the poor, oppressed, refugees, and the homeless, Jesus says if we help these people then we do these things directly to Jesus.

Mathew 34
‘Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was ill and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.”
37 ‘Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you ill or in prison and go to visit you?”
40 ‘The King will reply, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”
41 ‘Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was ill and in prison and you did not look after me.”
44 ‘They also will answer, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or ill or in prison, and did not help you?”
45 ‘He will reply, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.”
46 ‘Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.’

 

[josh987654321]

I was recently speaking with someone about faith, and I used an analogy I saw someone from this board.

The analogy goes:

You’re on a ship, you fall overboard, and the crew throws you a life saver. (The rings that float). The life saver is faith, and in order to be saved from drowning, we must accept (receive) this life saver by grabbing onto it.

In response to this analogy, they said:

“It is not a choice. I cannot grab the ring because I cannot see the ring. If I am even drowning, neither God nor you nor anyone else has made this clear enough to me. If it was clear that I was drowning and that the ring was my salvation I would take it in an instant. Instead God (in the context of Christianity being true) has chosen for me to go to hell by not revealing himself to me. My mother says “seek God and he will reveal himself to you” but their definition of the word “seek” implicitly requires a belief in God. To me, to seek means to pick up a stone looking for God and to, most probably, see that he is not there. To them seeking means submission to God; to pray to him and ask him for forgiveness and devote myself to him and just sort of “see if that works out for me” I guess. But I can’t pray to something I do not believe in… that is the entire problem, you see.”

How should I respond to this ? How CAN we seek God without first believing in Him ?

Thanks in advance!

We must first believe in God.

These people must see how illogical it is to disbelieve in God.

God is the only logical choice for any sane person who thinks about it.

This is from Ravi Zacharias on the illogicality of Atheism.

There are 3 steps you take in establishing the existance of God.

1. However you section physical reality, you take the physical universe how you see it, how ever you slice it down to it’s most minute form, the fact of the matter is you end up with a physical entity or quantity that does not have the reason for it’s existance in itself.

Ultimatly the physical universe reduced in any form, cannot explain it’s own origin, it has to expand it’s explanation outside of itself, which means the first explanation of a universe as we see it, has to have something that is non physical as a first cause.

Therefore an athiest has a kind of haunted universe without knowing what the first cause is.

1. If you take the composition of the enzyme in the human component, the enzyme being the building block of the gene and the gene being the building block of the cell.

The possibility of the human enzyme comming together by random is 1 in 10^40,000, which is more than the number of atoms in this universe, it is timewise and mathematically impossible.

1. Explanation of morality, conscience.

If there is no God. Than there is no moral law giver and if there is no moral law giver. Than there is no moral law and if there is no moral law. Than there is nothing to distinguish between right & wrong or good & evil, therefore if they do not believe in God than there is no right & wrong or good & evil. So if they believe in good and bad or right and wrong, than they are contradicting themselves.

Now this should hopefully get them to Agnostic, now if all religions claim to be the truth, than how can Christianity make that claim and be correct?

Many Agnostic claim that all religions a fundamentally the same and superfically different, which isn’t true. All religions are fundamentally different and at best superfically similar.

Only in the judeo-christian world view will you find these 4 questions answered with corresponding truthfullness and with the coherance of a world view.

1. Origin
2. Meaning
3. Morality
4. Destiny

The judeo-christian is not the only one that claims exclusivity, but it’s the only one that takes those four questions with corresponding answers that are truthfull and coherant answers that stand the test of time and the ultimate answer of the resurrection of the dead that gives you hope and meaning.

This is all from Ravi Zacharias who explains these things very well, I also found another website that has “Six questions to ask an athiest” the link is here - rzim.org/media/questions-answers/

For example, If there is no God, “the big questions” remain unanswered, so how do we answer the following questions like, Why is there something rather than nothing?

I hope this helps you.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Aussieman88]

This person needs to know that God is Spirit. He is regularly talking to all of us but most don’t perceive it. Its like radio is being broadcast in the air, we cant hear it unless we have a receiver and are tuned in to the station. We all have a receiver but the devil has a broadcast satellite as well. We need to be tuned in to the right station.

Seeking tunes in our station. Then one day it just happens. You perceive it and feel it.

Has your friend ever experienced anything that makes her think there is a spiritual world? Most people I’ve met that think like her actually believe in demons or ghosts or some phenomena that can only be something spiritual.

 

[Bookcat]

If I seek for some buried Gold – cause I think there may be some there – or* I heard there may be some there – does that mean I believe there is? * No --not per se. But it means at least I am open to the possibility there there is gold there.

(Now of course gold …there may or may not be in fact gold there …where as with God there would not *be a seeker *…without God. And with God -there is within us a kind of religious sense --a desire for God --that exists even if one has later in life rejected it or embraced a “belief” that there is no God or tried to fill it that which is not God)

 

[guanophore]

I was recently speaking with someone about faith, and I used an analogy I saw someone from this board.

The analogy goes:

You’re on a ship, you fall overboard, and the crew throws you a life saver. (The rings that float). The life saver is faith, and in order to be saved from drowning, we must accept (receive) this life saver by grabbing onto it.

In response to this analogy, they said:

“It is not a choice. I cannot grab the ring because I cannot see the ring. If I am even drowning, neither God nor you nor anyone else has made this clear enough to me. If it was clear that I was drowning and that the ring was my salvation I would take it in an instant. Instead God (in the context of Christianity being true) has chosen for me to go to hell by not revealing himself to me. My mother says “seek God and he will reveal himself to you” but their definition of the word “seek” implicitly requires a belief in God. To me, to seek means to pick up a stone looking for God and to, most probably, see that he is not there. To them seeking means submission to God; to pray to him and ask him for forgiveness and devote myself to him and just sort of “see if that works out for me” I guess. But I can’t pray to something I do not believe in… that is the entire problem, you see.”

How should I respond to this ? How CAN we seek God without first believing in Him ?

Thanks in advance!

Heb 11:6-7
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, for whoever would approach him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Human beings have an innate desire to seek God, and to find Him. We are created this way. As Augustine says “our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee”.

 

[SpeakKindly]

Some people who struggled with initial belief “act as if” God exists in order to keep themselves open to faith. If a person is able to accept that there might be a God, and make simple, honest prayers which could even start like this: “I don’t know if you’re real, God, but I need help with…” then at the right time God will make Himself known to them.

Keep in mind that based on the experiences some people have had with hypocrites who call themselves believers, its easy for them to become very discouraged from belief in God. But He truly knows their hearts and what’s happened to them in their lives. He knows the obstacles in their path to Him which have been brought about by sin and evil. He also sends them opportunities to overcome these obstacles and finally come to know Him via special messengers of faith like yourself. But don’t blame yourself if it seems like your efforts are fruitless. You never know what kind of seeds you’re planting which may take root, grow and bear fruit later. I hope and pray this helps you.

Yours in Jesus through Mary,

Tom

P.S. - the reason God doesn’t appear in the clouds and say “Now do you believe in Me!?” is because He wants us to make a free choice to believe. Our free will is our greatest gift. The ability to choose God despite all the temptation to choose the pleasures of sin in this life is what gives us our human dignity. We only do this by His grace, though. And only two people since the Fall have done this perfectly: Jesus and His Blessed Mother.

Thanks for the response, how does what you’re saying (that God reveals Himself, even if we only believe God *might *exist), compared to the verse that someone else posted ?

“6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” (Hebrews 11:6)

Is the answer that we *have *to believe in God 100 % to see Him revealed to us in our search for Him ?

 

[guanophore]

Thanks for the response, how does what you’re saying (that God reveals Himself, even if we only believe God *might *exist), compared to the verse that someone else posted ?

“6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” (Hebrews 11:6)

Is the answer that we *have *to believe in God 100 % to see Him revealed to us in our search for Him ?

I am not sure such a human condition really exists. No, God will work with whatever tiny seed of faith is there to nourish it and make it grow in us. We do need to have some willingness and openness to accept what He has already revealed within the human heart, as well asa the rest of HIs creation.

 

[Nita]

How CAN we seek God without first believing in Him ?

One can begin by desiring truth - a strong desire to know truth. Truth has to be (or become) very important in all areas of one’s life.

When it comes to seeking the truth about the existence of God, I would say one should desire the truth about it so much that what is in their mind and heart would be something similar to: “I want to know the truth, only the truth. If you are real God, help me to know it”. Then, in their own words, they should actually start expressing the desire as it is in their heart. (It doesn’t have to be said aloud; one can say it silently; “think” it, so to speak.)

 

[Philthy]

Human beings have an innate desire to seek God, and to find Him. We are created this way. As Augustine says “our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee”.

Jer 31:33-34"…I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD."

God’s law is written on the heart of every human being and awakened through grace in their conscience. I’d tell them that I don’t really believe they don’t sense a need to find Him but if they don’t to simply be open to experiencing Him in their conscience.

 

[Nita]

Thanks for the response, how does what you’re saying (that God reveals Himself, even if we only believe God *might *exist), compared to the verse that someone else posted ?

“6 And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” (Hebrews 11:6)

Is the answer that we *have *to believe in God 100 % to see Him revealed to us in our search for Him ?

I know this was in response to tequirk’s post and not mine - but I did see a connection to my post (#11) about seeking truth.

God is truth. (Jesus said, “I am the…truth”… John 14:6)
When someone believes there is truth and seeks it, there is a sense in which they are believing and seeking God, even though they do not realize it at the time.

 

[guanophore]

I know this was in response to tequirk’s post and not mine - but I did see a connection to my post (#11) about seeking truth.

God is truth. (Jesus said, “I am the…truth”… John 14:6)
When someone believes there is truth and seeks it, there is a sense in which they are believing and seeking God, even though they do not realize it at the time.

Indeed yes.

Acts 17:26-31
26 From one ancestor he made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, 27 so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him — though indeed he is not far from each one of us. 28 For ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said,
‘For we too are his offspring.’

29 Since we are God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of mortals. 30 While God has overlooked the times of human ignorance, now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will have the world judged in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead."

 

[snarflemike]

I’d be interested in any answers to that as well. It seems to me many that some people decide as an act of conscious will to try to believe, or act as though, God exists - which I don’t think is really the same as feeling certain.

Let’s face it - there are atheists (and agnostics) who are adamant that they don’t want God to exist. For example, philosopher Thomas Nagel wrote:

“In speaking of the fear of religion, I don’t mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper–namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn’t just that I don’t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I’m right in my belief. It’s that I hope there is no God! I don’t want there to be a God; I don’t want the universe to be like that.”

Will a person with this attitude ever see the life preserver? Well, with God all things are possible. Look up author John C Wright’s conversion story. He was a true atheist’s atheist, and God walloped him upside the head repeatedly, and he writes that he is ashamed befoe his fellow Christians that his willful refusal to believe required such a blatant calling home.
scifiwright.com/2011/09/a-question-i-never-tire-of-answering/

I think it comes down to having a sincere desire for the truth. God will provide every person with the grace to be saved. In the end, nobody gets to claim “God, you didn’t give me enough grace to know you!”