Tough question...or maybe not

[CSN]

Liberian:

CSN,

I think the root of your dilemma is the idea that obeying Church laws makes you oh-so-holy. It doesn’t; it’s a bare minimum that the Church lays out. Certainly in this society obeying Church laws is unusual, but that is a fault of our society and not of the person obeying the laws.

When Jesus warned of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them, He was not talking about obeying Church laws and engaging in corporate worship. He was talking about individual works of charity and penance that you take on yourself. It would be perfectly acceptable to tell people "It’s Lent and I am vegetarian on Fridays.

Regarding your specific question, Little Deb is right that the sin part is the disregard for the Church’s laws. You apparently were not deliberately disregarding the Church’s laws and so I wouldn’t worry about it. You might want to get to confession today anyhow, though.

• Liberian

I did go to confession today, in fact. Thank you for your informative post.

 

[CSN]

CSN:

Well, thank you all very much for your responses. I really appreciate them. I had no idea a chicken breast could stir so much interest. That sounded kinda weird, but oh well…

Seriously, however, this situation is not a matter of scrupulosity. Nor is it a fear of workplace intimidation or shame – people at work know I’m Catholic. I simply thought I could get away with avoiding little pieces of chicken in a larger dish, but when I saw each person’s entire dish was a big chicken breast, I opted not to make a big show.

It’s about trying not to push people away with grand gestures of sanctimony. I feel that bringing people to the Catholic church is like feeding squirrels. Coaxing and persuading, not forcing something down their throats.

For example, every other person there had the exact same thing (it was a course meal, as specified by the guy buying the lunch), including one other co-worker I know is Catholic. If I asked the waiter to take the plate away, how would that make others, including him, feel?

In any event, this is no longer an issue, since I went to confession today anyway

Finally, I have seen people before with responses of the “gimmeabreak!!” variety when there are questions about “is this/that a sin?”. I can understand that because there is a fine balance between piety and scrupulosity. But remember this: a lot of people question why pre-marital sex is a sin, when two people feel like they love each other and would give anything in the world for each other. Since it’s not always a matter of natural common sense, a lot of people are careful not to presume to know the truth…

In any event, the slate has been wiped clean, and I am feeling grooooovy !!

 

[Rebecca_New]

CSN:

Well, thank you all very much for your responses. I really appreciate them. I had no idea a chicken breast could stir so much interest. That sounded kinda weird, but oh well…

Seriously, however, this situation is not a matter of scrupulosity. Nor is it a fear of workplace intimidation or shame – people at work know I’m Catholic. I simply thought I could get away with avoiding little pieces of chicken in a larger dish, but when I saw each person’s entire dish was a big chicken breast, I opted not to make a big show.

It’s about trying not to push people away with grand gestures of sanctimony. I feel like bringing people to the Catholic church is like feeding squirrels. Coaxing and persuading, not forcing something down their throats.

For example, every other person there had the exact same thing (it was a course meal, as specified by the guy buying the lunch), including one other co-worker I know is Catholic. If I asked the waiter to take the plate away, how would that make others, including him, feel?

In any event, this is no longer an issue, since I went to confession today anyway

Finally, I have seen people before with responses of the “gimmeabreak!!” variety when there are questions about “is this/that a sin?”. I can understand that because there is a fine balance between piety and scrupulosity. But remember this: a lot of people question why pre-marital sex is a sin, when two people feel like they love each other and would give anything in the world for each other. Since it’s not always a matter of natural common sense, a lot of people are careful not to presume to know the truth…

In any event, the slate has been wiped clean, and I am feeling grooooovy !!

Not that I in any way want to know what went on in the confessional; but you started the thread…Is there some enlightenment you have on the subject that you did not have before? Maybe you would share the enlightment part-

 

[Liberian]

CSN:

I did go to confession today, in fact. Thank you for your informative post.

You’re very welcome, and I hope you received many actual and spiritual graces!

• Liberian

 

[LatinCat]

ReformedCatholic:

Give me a break, a “mortal” sin? Murder, rape, child molestation- those are “mortal” sins. Meat on Friday? It’s meat on Friday. Skip meat on Saturday to make up for it and call it even!

And this is why you are not Catholic. It is a mortal sin to be disobedient to the Catholic Church. Really, you need to reassess why you even have “Catholic” in your screen name. “Reformed Catholics” are not members of the Catholic Church. They are liberal protestants who like to say the Hail Mary. Give me a break.

 

[carol_marie]

Ok, so now I’m curious… what does Reformed Catholic mean?

Peace,
CM

 

[ReformedCatholic]

LatinCat:

And this is why you are not Catholic. It is a mortal sin to be disobedient to the Catholic Church. Really, you need to reassess why you even have “Catholic” in your screen name. “Reformed Catholics” are not members of the Catholic Church. They are liberal protestants who like to say the Hail Mary. Give me a break.

Well, that’s the beauty of a free country. You’re entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.

I have Catholic in my name because one does not need to belong to the Roman Catholic Church to be considered such. Period.

You speak of “liberal protestants” with disdain. Too bad. Christianity encompasses more than merely the Roman Church, and it also teaches “love one another as I have loved you.” You might like to try it.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

carol marie:

Ok, so now I’m curious… what does Reformed Catholic mean?

Peace,
CM

It refers to a small Catholic jurisdiction that traces its Apostolic Succession through the Old Catholic Church of Utrecht, and the Antiochian-Jacobite Orthodox Church. They are welcoming of anyone with sincere interest in the Church and refrain from discrimination of any kind or passing judgement on folks. They’re not in communion with Rome, so they are scoffed at and denigrated here.

Thanks for the straight question without the ridicule or condemnation. For more info you can just check the website in my profile.

All the best.

 

[LatinCat]

ReformedCatholic:

Well, that’s the beauty of a free country. You’re entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.

I have Catholic in my name because one does not need to belong to the Roman Catholic Church to be considered such. Period.

You speak of “liberal protestants” with disdain. Too bad. Christianity encompasses more than merely the Roman Church, and it also teaches “love one another as I have loved you.” You might like to try it.

The kingdom of God is not a democracy like the U.S.A. Either you follow Christ’s Chruch or you don’t. If you don’t the just judge will not allow you to enter into his rest. People like you who try to be Catholic while not actually being Catholic make me laugh. Goodness gracious man. Read a book. By the way, I love you enough to warn you that the path that you are going down does not lead to heaven. I beg to turn back to Christ’s Church, the universal ark of salvation, before it is too late. I love you and will pray for you.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

The kingdom of God is not a democracy like the U.S.A. Either you follow Christ’s Chruch or you don’t. If you don’t the just judge will not allow you to enter into his rest. People like you who try to be Catholic while not actually being Catholic make me laugh. Goodness gracious man. Read a book. By the way, I love you enough to warn you that the path that you are going down does not lead to heaven. I beg to turn back to Christ’s Church, the universal ark of salvation, before it is too late. I love you and will pray for you.

You ridicule me, laugh at me, make fun of me, insult my intelligence, and condemn me, and then you claim to “love” me?

Oh, now we’re talking about Christ’s Church? I thought you were talking about the Catholic Church- my bad. Christ’s Church encompasses all of Christianity- hence the term had to be created because the “church” had grown beyond the doors of Catholic cathedrals.

If your church is comprised of the judgement and denigration of others that you seem to demonstrate, you can keep it.

Thanks, but it sounds like you need to be praying for yourself.

 

[LittleDeb]

CSN:

A special thank you for both your responses

Awww, thanks! And thank you. It was because of your question that the Holy Spirit gave me a response for my own life. “God wants us to focus, satan wants us to dwell,” was something I needed to realize in my own life.

I have been struggling to discern a true Lenten sacrifice. That single sentence helped define it. Since God allows all things things that happen in our lives, and everything is for His greater glory and our greater good our responses to each other’s posts are important in our own lives.

It seems we encounter other’s with questions or challenges that help define our own lives. Thanks again for helping define mine!

 

[LilyM]

Sorry, late joiner of this thread … to get back to the REAL topic, which I believe was eating meat on Fridays …

It’s not apparent to me what the difficulty was with sending the food back - you said everyone was eating the same thing, but I assume they weren’t all eating from the same plate or anything???
The only people who would be inconvenienced would be you and the waiter???

As an example, I went out on Friday to a tapas bar - lots of little nibblies instead of huge serves of anything, and in my case we DID have a set menu and plates of food shared between people. Rather heavy on the meat though.

I didn’t make a point of being Catholic or anything, simply said ‘I can’t eat meat’ - no problems, lots of people can’t or won’t for health reasons. If they had asked, I would’ve said it was because I was Catholic etc, as it was they didn’t ask.

They asked if I was OK with seafood, when I said I was they provided some seafood alternatives for me. No big drama, no grandstanding about being Catholic, noone was inconvenienced since a lot of the other people liked having seafood to pick at as well.

So … what was different in your situation OP?

 

[CSN]

Liberian:

You’re very welcome, and I hope you received many actual and spiritual graces!

• Liberian

I hope the same for you, although it seems you have received many already.

 

[CSN]

LittleDeb:

Awww, thanks! And thank you. It was because of your question that the Holy Spirit gave me a response for my own life. “God wants us to focus, satan wants us to dwell,” was something I needed to realize in my own life.

I have been struggling to discern a true Lenten sacrifice. That single sentence helped define it. Since God allows all things things that happen in our lives, and everything is for His greater glory and our greater good our responses to each other’s posts are important in our own lives.

It seems we encounter other’s with questions or challenges that help define our own lives. Thanks again for helping define mine!

Well, glad I could of help, albeit completely inadvertently…

That’s a neat statement you said. What it illustrates for me is yet another way satan will attack us. It’s almost never full frontal assault – if it were, that would make things so much easier. satan’s like some kind of grand judo master who will make us tumble in the direction we are already off balance. Gotta be careful always, eh?

 

[CSN]

LilyM:

Sorry, late joiner of this thread … to get back to the REAL topic, which I believe was eating meat on Fridays …

It’s not apparent to me what the difficulty was with sending the food back - you said everyone was eating the same thing, but I assume they weren’t all eating from the same plate or anything???
The only people who would be inconvenienced would be you and the waiter???

As an example, I went out on Friday to a tapas bar - lots of little nibblies instead of huge serves of anything, and in my case we DID have a set menu and plates of food shared between people. Rather heavy on the meat though.

I didn’t make a point of being Catholic or anything, simply said ‘I can’t eat meat’ - no problems, lots of people can’t or won’t for health reasons. If they had asked, I would’ve said it was because I was Catholic etc, as it was they didn’t ask.

They asked if I was OK with seafood, when I said I was they provided some seafood alternatives for me. No big drama, no grandstanding about being Catholic, noone was inconvenienced since a lot of the other people liked having seafood to pick at as well.

So … what was different in your situation OP?

I was going to order the noodles, and the guy buying our lunch said ‘choose one of the courses’ for timing reasons, and so I specifically ordered the chicken course, thinking I could somehow stash the chicken away or something. When it came out, however, I could not do anything to hide it, and it seemed to me that I would be putting on a show if I sent it back, particularly after having specifically ordered it.

Next time, I will just say no to any lunch invitations on a no-meat day.

 

[LatinCat]

ReformedCatholic:

You ridicule me, laugh at me, make fun of me, insult my intelligence, and condemn me, and then you claim to “love” me?

Oh, now we’re talking about Christ’s Church? I thought you were talking about the Catholic Church- my bad. Christ’s Church encompasses all of Christianity- hence the term had to be created because the “church” had grown beyond the doors of Catholic cathedrals.

If your church is comprised of the judgement and denigration of others that you seem to demonstrate, you can keep it.

Thanks, but it sounds like you need to be praying for yourself.

You have no idea what love is. Love is not always being warm and fuzzy. Jesus ridiculed the pharisees when they were being ridiculous. He loved them but shared the hard truth with them. I riducule those actions of yours that are ridiculous, because you need to know the hard truth: you are completely out of touch with reality. By the way, sometimes we are supposed to make a judgement: “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” (John 7:24). What you are missing is the historical fact that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and you have seperated yourself from his Church, his body. How do you expect to get to heaven when you believe yourself a better judge of truth than he is?

 

[ReformedCatholic]

LatinCat:

You have no idea what love is. Love is not always being warm and fuzzy. Jesus ridiculed the pharisees when they were being ridiculous. He loved them but shared the hard truth with them. I riducule those actions of yours that are ridiculous, because you need to know the hard truth: you are completely out of touch with reality. By the way, sometimes we are supposed to make a judgement: “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” (John 7:24). What you are missing is the historical fact that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and you have seperated yourself from his Church, his body. How do you expect to get to heaven when you believe yourself a better judge of truth than he is?

Perhaps, I took you the wrong way but I would suggest you work on your presentation.

I would also explore what comprises judgement by “appearances” versus what is “right judgement.” One could argue that you have judged base on the “appearances” of what you have seen here, without a full knowledge of the person whom you are judging.

I agree that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. No argument there. We have differing views on what consists of “separation” from that Church.

I am a Catholic though.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Reformed Catholic:

I have Catholic in my name because one does not need to belong to the Roman Catholic Church to be considered such. Period.

Wow. I’m looking at this forum rule:

If the user name you choose contains offensive or misleading elements or innuendo, your account will be canceled and you will be banned from future participation at this site.

I find your username misleading and I think that any reasonable person would also find it misleading.

My first impression from reading the username “Reformed Catholic” was that you used to be a member of the Catholic Church who disagreed with Church teaching on – say – same sex marriage or something along those lines; and now you are reformed and agree with the Church’s teaching.

But you don’t mean any kind of member of the Catholic Church, do you? I think you are also trying to flame us with your name.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

Ani Ibi:

Wow. I’m looking at this forum rule:

I find your username misleading and I think that any reasonable person would also find it misleading.

My first impression from reading the username “Reformed Catholic” was that you used to be a member of the Catholic Church who disagreed with Church teaching on – say – same sex marriage or something along those lines; and now you are reformed and agree with the Church’s teaching.

But you don’t mean any kind of member of the Catholic Church.

Wow. I’m looking at prejudice and condemnation.

I was Baptised into the Roman Catholic Church on June 4, 1972. Now, what were you saying?

 

[LatinCat]

ReformedCatholic:

Perhaps, I took you the wrong way but I would suggest you work on your presentation.

I would also explore what comprises judgement by “appearances” versus what is “right judgement.” One could argue that you have judged base on the “appearances” of what you have seen here, without a full knowledge of the person whom you are judging.

I agree that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. No argument there. We have differing views on what consists of “separation” from that Church.

I am a Catholic though.

While we have different views, yours is neither in line with the scriptures, history, or the teachings of the early Christians. That is why I know your view is incorrect and why I am very concerned for you.