Tough Situation..Need Answers

  • Thread starter Thread starter julesp526
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

julesp526

Guest
Here is my situation: I am a devout Catholic who was recently divorced. The divorce is not “legal” yet in the courts but we already saw the judge and I am just waiting for the final divorce decree. My parish priest knows about this and gave me his blessing as the marriage was more or less a nightmare (except for my child obviously! ) and he said he would help me get it annulled once the divorce is final. He knows me well and knows I am a good Catholic and also knows how important my faith is to me. I met a wonderful man who is Protestant and respects my faith even though he is not Catholic himself. We plan on getting married once the annullment goes through. My first question is, does he need to obtain an annullment for his divorce as well even though he is Protestant if we want to get married in the Catholic Church? He says we can always get married in his church but it is very important to me to get married in the Catholic Church. My other issue is there is a possibility I may be pregnant. While this is wonderful news and a gift from God, I do not want to be unwed and pregnant. I realize that the annulment takes time and may not be effective right away. We both agreed that we would want to be married before a baby came as we both just feel that is the right thing to do and we want to get married anyway. Can I get married in his church for now as I may not be able to in mine if the annullment is not final? Could we marry again in the Catholic Church after the baby is born so that it is valid? I would be very upset if I could not be married in my church at all but would get married in his if I had to because even though it may not valid in the church’s eyes, I do not want to be unwed and would rather be married in the Protestant church than not be married at all. I hope this makes sense and any insight you can offer would be wonderful. God Bless!!
 
A lot of good questions, and I would really advise you to consult a Canon Lawyer.
 
“Good”, “Devout” Catholic?

I don’t want to cast stones, but…um…I assume the current husband isn’t the dad? Knowing that you wanted to be married and “do the right thing” as far as canon law is concerned, isn’t it a little late to be worrying about being pregnant and unwed? Remember, you’re still wed until an annulment is pronounced as far as the Church is concerned.

OK, be that as it may, if you’re pregnant, it’s a done deal; let’s deal with that.

I guess the answer to your question lies in this: Your first marriage is assumed valid until proven otherwise, i.e. annuled.

I agree that a consultation with a canon lawer is in order.
 
Absolutely. Canon Lawyer. Both parties must be free to marry to remain in communion as they must give the sacrament to each other.
 
What is a Canon Lawyer and what can they do for you? As far as being still married in the Church’s eyes, I understand that but my marriage was a verbally and emotionally abusive nightmare and he also cheated on me and refused more children years ago. So for me, this marriage was over a long time ago as no one deserves to be treated like that. Believe me I tried to do what was the right thing by the church by staying with him…even after he cheated on me. But I’m not going to be a punching bag and the best thing I did was leave him.
 
A canon lawyer can help to determine the status of your original marriage.

And the question is not whether you had to continue to live with your husband; the question is whether you can validly marry someone else. If you were validly married to your husband at the time of the WEDDING (regardless of what happened later), then you are NOT permitted to marry again. “Annulments” (actually “declarations of nullity”) are not granted automatically.
 
I have to agree. You are still legally married to your husband. And it won’t end with a civil divorce. If you are pregnant by the man you’d like to wed, it would be considered adultry. I don’t know how that would affect your annulment, but it sure won’t help it any.
 
You are no doubt in a difficult situation and by you saying that you are a “devout Catholic”, I am assume that you were married in the Catholic Church. That being said, before you could remarry in the Church you would need to obtain an annulment. Even if you were given a civil divorce and remarried in a Protestant Church, it would put you in a state where the Catholic Church would see you living in adultery.

It is a hard position, I would strongly recommend that you go through your priest and contact a canon lawyer to get clarification on your situation. I have also attached a link from EWTN that talks about the annulment process ewtn.com/expert/answers/annulment.htm

I know this is hard for you. Just start pursuing the course of the annulment if this is what your priest supports and make sure that you have a case, but you must get started now because it could take quite some time to process.

Oh, by the way, if you married only civilly that is an important fact to note.

Pax tecum.
 
Good_Daughter said:
The Church teaches us to stay with an abusive, unfaithful spouse? That doesn’t make much sense.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t. Marriages are forever, unless they never really happened. Not to mention that one can separate from an abusive spouse yet still be married to them.
 
Good_Daughter said:
The Church teaches us to stay with an abusive, unfaithful spouse? That doesn’t make much sense.
Click to expand...
Nullity is granted under these terms:
What a decree of Nullity Is. An annulment, properly called a Decree of Nullity, is a finding by a Church tribunal that ON THE DAY VOWS WERE EXCHANGED at least some essential element for a valid marriage was lacking, such as, one of the parties did not intend lifelong fidelity to the other person or excluded children entirely. Another example would be that one of the parties was incapable of marriage (due to some constitutional weakness, such as mental illness or some psychological condition that prevented making the marital commitment - gross immaturity, homosexuality, etc.).
Click to expand...
Other than that people are to remain married. That is what is taught.
 
(1) Yes the Protestant man would have to seek and receive a decree of nullity from his prior marriage(s) through the Catholic Church.

(2) You don’t know for sure that either of you will receive a decree of nullity so you should refrain from any civil marriage or marriage in “his” church until you know of your true status with the Catholic Church.

(3) I believe the other poster was referring not to staying with the abusive spouse but was referring to the fact that you began having sexual relations outside of marriage with your current beau. You refer to yourself as a “devout” Catholic, so you must know that this is a sin against the Sixth Commandment. The pregnancy has now put you in a situation where you are wanting to get yourself into an invalid marriage. You need to step back and do things in the right order and with the guidance of your parish priest. Your divorce isn’t even final yet!

(4) Go see your priest, tell him the whole situation and ask for his guidance on starting the nullity paperwork for both you and the man you are seeing and for his guidance regarding your pregnancy situation.

(5) Go to the Sacrament of Reconciliation!

(6) Regarding getting married in his church and then later in the Catholic Church. No, you cannot do this. If you marry outside the Catholic Church you would need to seek convalidation of the marriage, which is a simple ceremony with a priest and two witnesses. It is not the same as having another wedding. And, remember, if you marry invalidly you cannot receive the Sacraments until you are validly married-- which all depends on BOTH of you receiving nullity decrees. Don’t put the cart before the horse.

Again-- I am sure that you are going through a lot emotionally, so I urge you to go talk to your priest who can help you sort it all out.
 
Again, go to your priest and/or bishop and ask to speak with a Canon Lawyer. The priest should be able to assist you in this matter. It is very important. We just speak as lay people. The Canon Lawyer can determine if the marriage(s) are valid. For example, if he was previously validly married before marrying you then your marriage with him could be consided defective and a candidate to be annuled. That’s just a hypothetical. The Canon Lawyer can make the valid determination.

I know it is very difficult but do not just go by “feelings”. There is a proper way to do this and a consultation with a Canon Lawyer is the way.
 
Until your marriage is investigated, it is wise to behave as a married woman who is separated from her husband.

Step out of the dating world, step away from the boyfriend. Step close to Jesus. Focus on your Spiritual life and on your children.

Begin the process to have the marriage reviewed by the Tribunal, and put it in God’s hands.

Should your marriage be found null, you may want to focus on raising your kids and leave dating again until they are grown up and out of the house. If you are found free to do so, date strong Catholic men, men who will be examples to your children and help keep them in the Faith.

Prayers for you.
 
Jules,

I feel for you and your situation.

I think you need to talk to your priest about all of the issues, as well as a start the ball rolling on the annulment. But, just because a situation is abusive doesn’t mean a marriage never existed. You need to be prepared for either outcome.

I doubt that this will be resolved in the next nine months in such a way that you will be divorced, be granted a decree of nullity, and be able to start the six month minimum process to get married in the Church.

All I can say, out of Christian love, is please don’t continue to pile bad decision onto bad decision. Step back and resolve the first marriage before you consider entering into another.
 
kage_ar said:
Until your marriage is investigated, it is wise to behave as a married woman who is separated from her husband.

Step out of the dating world, step away from the boyfriend. Step close to Jesus. Focus on your Spiritual life and on your children.

Begin the process to have the marriage reviewed by the Tribunal, and put it in God’s hands.

Should your marriage be found null, you may want to focus on raising your kids and leave dating again until they are grown up and out of the house. If you are found free to do so, date strong Catholic men, men who will be examples to your children and help keep them in the Faith.

Prayers for you.
Click to expand...
It is more than wise to behave this way, it is essential. We are bound, just as the Church is, to treat all existing marriages as valid until found to be otherwise. And as has been pointed out, annulments are not a ‘done deal’ by any means, so you may not be granted one.

As for your statement that you would rather go through a marriage in a Protestant church than be ‘unwed’ when your baby is born - well, you ARE presumptively wed to your first husband, in God’s eyes which are the only ones that count.

And you are morally bound to consider yourself wed to him unless and until such time as the marriage is declared to be null - and afterwards if it is found to be valid!

Not that any of this means you need to continue to live with him, but to go through any other form of marriage before and without a finding of nullity would be a mockery of the sacrament.
 
The thing that I don’t understand about the church is how even after you have filed for divorce from a man who abused you and was a horrible husband and father and does not even belive in God himself, they expect you to act as his wife and stay faithful to him? To a man who mocked my going to Mass every sunday, mocked my prayer and denied me any other children, a man who went out wtih his friends and got drunk and did not come home. A man who now as we speak is certainly not “remaining faithful to me” or acting like he is still in a valid marriage. He cheated on me and I’m sorry but that to me is the end of the marriage. He is out doing his own thing bouncing from woman to woman, and I’m expected to act like I’m still married??? I have met a wonderful man who treats me with respect and is so sincere and Christ like. And by the way, I am NOT pregnant which is a relief believe me. But after meeting a wonderful person, I’m expected to stay away from him and still act married? For WHAT? I’m sorry but I can’t really understand how God himself would expect me to suffer alone and not be able to find another man. That just does not seem right. I love my faith but this really bothers me. This is what I am hearing from everyone…to stay close to Jesus and stay away from the boyfriend. I am so close to Jesus it’s not even funny and I feel HIM in EVERY waking moment of my life. More so now than I ever have, especailly since I got out of that horrible abusive marriage. Someone explain all this to me.:mad:
 
julesp526 said:
The thing that I don’t understand about the church is how even after you have filed for divorce from a man who abused you and was a horrible husband and father and does not even belive in God himself, they expect you to act as his wife and stay faithful to him? To a man who mocked my going to Mass every sunday, mocked my prayer and denied me any other children, a man who went out wtih his friends and got drunk and did not come home. A man who now as we speak is certainly not “remaining faithful to me” or acting like he is still in a valid marriage. He cheated on me and I’m sorry but that to me is the end of the marriage. He is out doing his own thing bouncing from woman to woman, and I’m expected to act like I’m still married??? I have met a wonderful man who treats me with respect and is so sincere and Christ like. And by the way, I am NOT pregnant which is a relief believe me. But after meeting a wonderful person, I’m expected to stay away from him and still act married? For WHAT? I’m sorry but I can’t really understand how God himself would expect me to suffer alone and not be able to find another man. That just does not seem right. I love my faith but this really bothers me. This is what I am hearing from everyone…to stay close to Jesus and stay away from the boyfriend. I am so close to Jesus it’s not even funny and I feel HIM in EVERY waking moment of my life. More so now than I ever have, especailly since I got out of that horrible abusive marriage. Someone explain all this to me.:mad:
Click to expand...
God does not expect you to suffer alone. When you believe in God you are never alone.

I know what I have tried to communicate to you was not to make suffer, but to keep you from falling into mortal sin. If you believe in your faith (Catholicism), then you must take things one step at a time, as hard as that may be. Have you consulted with your priest? Have you filed for a declaration of nullity? Have you found out if you have a case?

I am truly sorry that you have had to endure such nasty experiences and I can empathize with you, but don’t let your husband’s sinfulness drag you down too. I have no doubt that new man you have met is a great man, but if he really loves you, he can wait. Love can endure all trials. Patience is a virtue.

Please consult with your priest. There may be some details which you have neglected to mention which can make all the difference in the Nullity proceeding. He can also better explain to you and guide you through this situation and help you to deal with the trauma of the past.

Pax tecum.
 
julesp526 said:
The thing that I don’t understand about the church is how even after you have filed for divorce from a man who abused you and was a horrible husband and father and does not even belive in God himself, they expect you to act as his wife and stay faithful to him?
Click to expand...
The Church does not expect you to “act as his wife.” The Church recognizes that there are times when spouses must physically and legally separate for safety and reasons such as you mention.

The Church does, however, expect you to remain faithful to God and the vow you made before him. If you are in a valid marriage, it is not possible to contract another. As Jesus said, no man can separate what God has joined. Even if you married a bad person, you still made the vow. You can pray for his conversion as St. Rita did.

Now, at this point you don’t know if you have a valid marriage because it is possible his behavior in your marriage sheds light on a defect in his intent at the time he gave his vows. This can only be determined through a Tribunal investigation.
julesp526 said:
To a man who mocked my going to Mass every sunday, mocked my prayer and denied me any other children, a man who went out wtih his friends and got drunk and did not come home. A man who now as we speak is certainly not “remaining faithful to me” or acting like he is still in a valid marriage. He cheated on me and I’m sorry but that to me is the end of the marriage. He is out doing his own thing bouncing from woman to woman,
Click to expand...
The number of sins he commits does not give you license to commit sins of your own.
julesp526 said:
and I’m expected to act like I’m still married???
Click to expand...
Yes, because you **are **still married.
julesp526 said:
I have met a wonderful man who treats me with respect and is so sincere and Christ like. And by the way, I am NOT pregnant which is a relief believe me. But after meeting a wonderful person, I’m expected to stay away from him and still act married?
Click to expand...
Yes. You certainly should not be having sexual relations with him. You are not married to him.

If you desire to move forward in a relationship, then be chaste and follow Christ. Wait to become involved until you have submitted your marriage for investigation by the Tribunal and have a decision one way or the other.

Also get counseling. Flying into the arms of the first man who is “nice” to you is not a healthy way to deal with the reasons that led you to choose so unwisely in your first marriage.
julesp526 said:
I’m sorry but I can’t really understand how God himself would expect me to suffer alone and not be able to find another man. That just does not seem right. I love my faith but this really bothers me.
Click to expand...
Christ suffered for us unto his death. He put God’s will before his own desires in all things.

However, being single is not a death sentence. You might be called to live out your life in singleness. If you choose to view that as suffering, surely it will be. But, if you choose to look at it as an opportunity, then it can be.

I don’t know why you chose this man you married, but you chose him and you made a vow. It is possible he did not enter the marriage with the proper consent/intent and that should be discussed with a priest. It is possible that you lacked capacity to have made a fully informed decision, I don’t know your circumstances. You should talk to your priest about investigating the marrige for nullity.
julesp526 said:
This is what I am hearing from everyone…to stay close to Jesus and stay away from the boyfriend. I am so close to Jesus it’s not even funny and I feel HIM in EVERY waking moment of my life.
Click to expand...
If you have having sex with a man you are not married to, you are not walking closely with Jesus. Don’t try to fool yourself there.

People are telling you to step back from the boyfriend because the actions you are engaging in are damaging your soul-- they are mortal sins and they are taking you **away **from Christ. Go talk to your priest. Go to Confession.
julesp526 said:
More so now than I ever have, especailly since I got out of that horrible abusive marriage. Someone explain all this to me.:mad:
Click to expand...
I encourage you to get a copy of the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster. It will help you understand the Church’s teaching on marriage and nullity.
 
Print out what 1ke said, that post is full of love and Christian wisdom.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top